Risks of attending a “Reach” school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Malcolm Gladwell - there are a lot of MIT Business majors that started as STEM majors. You judge yourself with those around you - at top tier school you are likely at the bottom. He gave an example of a Brown Bio major who dropped out but in retrospect she thought if she went to UMD she'd have a PHD in the field.

if you prep him for the competition then he might better deal with it.

Which book is this from?

DP
Outliers I think

[Anonymous]

Lets pretend he gets into Pitt and this is his 1st choice school.
You sit down with him and talk about what is expected / how to help him be successful.
That since you are paying, you will get access to grades etc.
Talk about strategies that have worked previously and what are similar things that can be done at college.
My ADHD kid - 1st year I was his alarm clock. It was what was needed. 30 minutes before 1st class of the day, I would check find my phone - If in bedroom, I would text. If no response, I would ping his phone.
This is a process we collectively agreed on as he knew this was an area he was weak with.

Kids grow and change - but having open communications to support them on their journey is key

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:ADHD students tend to be very bright, but really need structure and routine to get it going. I'd focus on fit rather than perceived prestige.

Exactly! The goal is for them to get thru college, get the degree and get a job. You need structure and a school that will help make this happen. Not a pressure cooker where the kid will have to struggle.

College is a huge adjustment for those with ADHD, as there is a lot to manage (and most with ADHD lack some EF as well). So I'd go with fit and a good price. Your kid will likely do better there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Malcolm Gladwell - there are a lot of MIT Business majors that started as STEM majors. You judge yourself with those around you - at top tier school you are likely at the bottom. He gave an example of a Brown Bio major who dropped out but in retrospect she thought if she went to UMD she'd have a PHD in the field.

Likely the other way around.

20 - 30 years ago Maryland was a different school and attracted different students.

What type of student?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Malcolm Gladwell - there are a lot of MIT Business majors that started as STEM majors. You judge yourself with those around you - at top tier school you are likely at the bottom. He gave an example of a Brown Bio major who dropped out but in retrospect she thought if she went to UMD she'd have a PHD in the field.

Likely the other way around.

20 - 30 years ago Maryland was a different school and attracted different students.

What type of student?

You are kidding, right? Maryland is much more selective now than they were years ago. Half of the states schools are this way. Pitt and Ohio State are two other examples. UVA, UNC and Michigan have always been tough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Malcolm Gladwell - there are a lot of MIT Business majors that started as STEM majors. You judge yourself with those around you - at top tier school you are likely at the bottom. He gave an example of a Brown Bio major who dropped out but in retrospect she thought if she went to UMD she'd have a PHD in the field.

Likely the other way around.

20 - 30 years ago Maryland was a different school and attracted different students.

Throwing names in is so much easier nowadays though

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Malcolm Gladwell - there are a lot of MIT Business majors that started as STEM majors. You judge yourself with those around you - at top tier school you are likely at the bottom. He gave an example of a Brown Bio major who dropped out but in retrospect she thought if she went to UMD she'd have a PHD in the field.

Likely the other way around.

I was going to say, why didn't she just go to slacker UMD and skate her way to that PhD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son adjusted very well, but “reach” was due to the low selectivity (Ivy). He had the top scores and grades/rigor. He attended a private HS. The HS prepared him very well. He had 5s on all AP exams.

What he did say was that HS was 6 hours a day of class with 2 hours of homework, while college is 2 hours of classes with 6 hours of reading/writing/homework.

He has always been self-motivator, non-procrastinator. He was able to play a club sport with a lot of travel and have a very healthy social life. Never felt too stressed. It’s the happiest I have seen him. Really enjoys the independence and that every e he talks to is very smart.

Can you name the school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The classes are hard at DD's 1st year's reach school. It does somewhat depend on proposed major and natural proclivities. So many are pushed onto a STEM path, and those classes have extra hours due to lab, hard tests, hard math, etc. Whereas humanities and social science majors generally may not require as much study.

It's a fallacy that humanities courses are easier. My freshman kid is at his reach school and is taking Bio, Chem, and MVC this semester. He said his China freshman seminar workload is heavier than those three classes put together, due to the lengthy reading assignments and papers. He has high As in the STEM classes and will be lucky to pull off an A in the humanities course.

lol no humanities courses are far easier, that’s why countless students switch majors from STEM to humanities but not the other way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Malcolm Gladwell - there are a lot of MIT Business majors that started as STEM majors. You judge yourself with those around you - at top tier school you are likely at the bottom. He gave an example of a Brown Bio major who dropped out but in retrospect she thought if she went to UMD she'd have a PHD in the field.

Likely the other way around.

I was going to say, why didn't she just go to slacker UMD and skate her way to that PhD?

The bad news is that a PhD at a less-prestigious institution is just as much work as at a more prestigious one, but with far less chance of getting an academic job afterwards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Malcolm Gladwell - there are a lot of MIT Business majors that started as STEM majors. You judge yourself with those around you - at top tier school you are likely at the bottom. He gave an example of a Brown Bio major who dropped out but in retrospect she thought if she went to UMD she'd have a PHD in the field.

Likely the other way around.

I was going to say, why didn't she just go to slacker UMD and skate her way to that PhD?

The bad news is that a PhD at a less-prestigious institution is just as much work as at a more prestigious one, but with far less chance of getting an academic job afterwards.

Switch majors after your freshman year, though, and there’s a 0% chance you’ll get an academic job in the field.

That’s what Gladwell is talking about: if a kid who would be 25th percentile at Brown but 75th percentile at UMD goes to Brown, they get four years of discouragement and negative feedback, even though they’re objectively one of the best (that’s how they got into Brown) and would have been recognized as such at UMD. Not a lot of people have the emotional resilience to take four years of constant discouragement without getting thoroughly discouraged.

Getting into reaches feels great. Attending them is often a different story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The classes are hard at DD's 1st year's reach school. It does somewhat depend on proposed major and natural proclivities. So many are pushed onto a STEM path, and those classes have extra hours due to lab, hard tests, hard math, etc. Whereas humanities and social science majors generally may not require as much study.

It's a fallacy that humanities courses are easier. My freshman kid is at his reach school and is taking Bio, Chem, and MVC this semester. He said his China freshman seminar workload is heavier than those three classes put together, due to the lengthy reading assignments and papers. He has high As in the STEM classes and will be lucky to pull off an A in the humanities course.

lol no humanities courses are far easier, that’s why countless students switch majors from STEM to humanities but not the other way.

It depends on how one's brain works. For some, reading 400 pages a week and writing 15 and 25 page papers is extremely challenging, especially these days when most 18 year olds have the attention span of gnats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Malcolm Gladwell - there are a lot of MIT Business majors that started as STEM majors. You judge yourself with those around you - at top tier school you are likely at the bottom. He gave an example of a Brown Bio major who dropped out but in retrospect she thought if she went to UMD she'd have a PHD in the field.

if you prep him for the competition then he might better deal with it.

Sound pretty patronizing - if anything, UMD Bio is more rigorous due to the lack of a P/F option.

It's not about the grading.

It's about comparisons with the peer group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Malcolm Gladwell - there are a lot of MIT Business majors that started as STEM majors. You judge yourself with those around you - at top tier school you are likely at the bottom. He gave an example of a Brown Bio major who dropped out but in retrospect she thought if she went to UMD she'd have a PHD in the field.

Likely the other way around.

I was going to say, why didn't she just go to slacker UMD and skate her way to that PhD?

Because she majored in biology, not physics and EE, so she couldn't build a machine.

And no one said "skate".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From Malcolm Gladwell - there are a lot of MIT Business majors that started as STEM majors. You judge yourself with those around you - at top tier school you are likely at the bottom. He gave an example of a Brown Bio major who dropped out but in retrospect she thought if she went to UMD she'd have a PHD in the field.

Likely the other way around.

20 - 30 years ago Maryland was a different school and attracted different students.

Throwing names in is so much easier nowadays though

The effect is more random variation. One kid gets in four places. A similar kid gets in zero.

Yield rates are chaotic.
Schools way over admitting or under admitting.