Leaving Feds - one of us has to move right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:So you’re considering leaving unstable job 1 in high COL city to take unstable job 2 - for the LESS pay - in another, high COL city where you’d be away from your wife and kid for 4 years? How is this even a question?

I mean current job has admin intent on eliminating.

The new job is “unstable” only that it’s in a tech company, which are inherently less stable than gov work. The company has been around 20 years and many people I’ve interviewed with have been working there for nearly a decade. I won’t feel stable in any private industry job in current “make it all AI” era…

But the job has significant growth potential — unlike Fed jobs which have been capped.

I don’t love it, but DW wants to quit her job and my job is likely ending — so you say I stay put until RIF, let her be breadwinner in job she hates, and then hope I can find some kind of work locally even for much less pay?

But you're focused on not moving your daughter. You didn't present the situation of you taking the job, your wife quitting and moving the whole family. If you can all move, then it's a calculated risk. If you're going to work across the country while your wife quits her local job to stay home with your high schooler (...?), that makes less sense. If she hates her job so much but you can't move, you should both be looking for new stuff locally.

Sorry. She would only keep her job while finishing high schoolers stint. The idea is with a private industry job that has comp that will eventually surpass the GS scale, it’s the right kind of opportunity to eventually have her quit. Otherwise if we both stay GS, she can’t quit for 12 years or so vs 3 if we move and I’m making more.

Or she could quit and get another job instead of staying home forever?

We have been BOTH actively looking for jobs. Our network is shallow as long time Feds — no one leaves our agencies and just retire from there. We are both IC working on technical work with narrow focus and not much collaboration with outside companies.

When she moves (in 3 years) she would likely get another job but we doubt it will be a GS15 pay range.

If you’re IC, stay put and gut it out. The market is saturated and if you haven’t already been RIFed, you probably won’t be. Sounds like your priority is your child ‘s stability, so that’s what you do. After she’s out of school you can reassess.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I'm a fed social scientist facing RIF/reorg as well, and I wouldn't make this move. If not disrupting my family was a priority, I'd look for work outside my field and take a pay cut to stay in the area. (That is my plan, currently.)

What kind of work are you considering, working retail making $20/hr?

I've worked retail before and generally the hours are too all over the map for parents of young kids. I'd definitely consider a weekend/evening serving gig. Also considering substitute teaching, bus driving, and weekend/evening tour guiding.

The key would be having very low paid work be part time while searching for another office job or consulting. But I've accepted that where I live I could probably only make 50-75% of my fed salary even then.

This is the kind of stuff you have to think about if you're prioritizing not moving the kids or keeping your spouse's local job.

75%? So I make $135k working retail? I’m so out of touch, that seems very doable.

Are you being intentionally obtuse? I said "even then," as in once I eventually find another professional job. The state and local governments pay 50-75%, for example.

But I clearly make a lot less than you, as does my spouse, so it seems like we have...more options than you, somehow? Not sure how that works, but we know what a bare bones budget is and how to live on it

Our jobs are downtown, so we prioritized a shorter commute so that's probably why you have more options. If I could transfer to a role in Loudoun or something and live in PW or Loudoun we could get by on a lot less, but of course that also means moving a high schooler who has learning disabilities and seems to doing well where she is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you’re considering leaving unstable job 1 in high COL city to take unstable job 2 - for the LESS pay - in another, high COL city where you’d be away from your wife and kid for 4 years? How is this even a question?

I mean current job has admin intent on eliminating.

The new job is “unstable” only that it’s in a tech company, which are inherently less stable than gov work. The company has been around 20 years and many people I’ve interviewed with have been working there for nearly a decade. I won’t feel stable in any private industry job in current “make it all AI” era…

But the job has significant growth potential — unlike Fed jobs which have been capped.

I don’t love it, but DW wants to quit her job and my job is likely ending — so you say I stay put until RIF, let her be breadwinner in job she hates, and then hope I can find some kind of work locally even for much less pay?

But you're focused on not moving your daughter. You didn't present the situation of you taking the job, your wife quitting and moving the whole family. If you can all move, then it's a calculated risk. If you're going to work across the country while your wife quits her local job to stay home with your high schooler (...?), that makes less sense. If she hates her job so much but you can't move, you should both be looking for new stuff locally.

Sorry. She would only keep her job while finishing high schoolers stint. The idea is with a private industry job that has comp that will eventually surpass the GS scale, it’s the right kind of opportunity to eventually have her quit. Otherwise if we both stay GS, she can’t quit for 12 years or so vs 3 if we move and I’m making more.

Or she could quit and get another job instead of staying home forever?

We have been BOTH actively looking for jobs. Our network is shallow as long time Feds — no one leaves our agencies and just retire from there. We are both IC working on technical work with narrow focus and not much collaboration with outside companies.

When she moves (in 3 years) she would likely get another job but we doubt it will be a GS15 pay range.

Go to professional conferences. Give talks or papers. Even if you have to take PTO and pay yourself. It's how to meet contacts.

I've gone to a bunch of conversations, and struck up dozens of conversations, but you can't do this for very long since they cost like $500/pop. None of really become connection, because I don't do any buying for our agency so no one really cares about my niche science except other scientists -- who also aren't hiring.

Giving papers would be a good option, I'll look into that, but that's a very long game and I generally don't have the bandwidth -- its not part of our usual work to author research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you’re considering leaving unstable job 1 in high COL city to take unstable job 2 - for the LESS pay - in another, high COL city where you’d be away from your wife and kid for 4 years? How is this even a question?

I mean current job has admin intent on eliminating.

The new job is “unstable” only that it’s in a tech company, which are inherently less stable than gov work. The company has been around 20 years and many people I’ve interviewed with have been working there for nearly a decade. I won’t feel stable in any private industry job in current “make it all AI” era…

But the job has significant growth potential — unlike Fed jobs which have been capped.

I don’t love it, but DW wants to quit her job and my job is likely ending — so you say I stay put until RIF, let her be breadwinner in job she hates, and then hope I can find some kind of work locally even for much less pay?

But you're focused on not moving your daughter. You didn't present the situation of you taking the job, your wife quitting and moving the whole family. If you can all move, then it's a calculated risk. If you're going to work across the country while your wife quits her local job to stay home with your high schooler (...?), that makes less sense. If she hates her job so much but you can't move, you should both be looking for new stuff locally.

Sorry. She would only keep her job while finishing high schoolers stint. The idea is with a private industry job that has comp that will eventually surpass the GS scale, it’s the right kind of opportunity to eventually have her quit. Otherwise if we both stay GS, she can’t quit for 12 years or so vs 3 if we move and I’m making more.

So your only options are wife stays in current job for 3 years and then doesn't have to work anymore, or wife stays in current job 12 years and doesn't work.

That's an insane way to deal with a job you dislike. I get that it's hard to transfer out of government right now, but you're reasoning as though she would NEVER be able to get another job in any field, ever. I bet she could find something within those 3 years.

Alternatively, with 3 years to look since it sounds like you don't plan on her quitting before then anyway, YOU could probably find something else locally. It might not be precisely equivalent but a family of 3 can live just fine on one GS-15 salary.

We would need to sell our house and likely move to a townhouse in Howard county or something to live off that. That is almost as bad as the move.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you’re considering leaving unstable job 1 in high COL city to take unstable job 2 - for the LESS pay - in another, high COL city where you’d be away from your wife and kid for 4 years? How is this even a question?

I mean current job has admin intent on eliminating.

The new job is “unstable” only that it’s in a tech company, which are inherently less stable than gov work. The company has been around 20 years and many people I’ve interviewed with have been working there for nearly a decade. I won’t feel stable in any private industry job in current “make it all AI” era…

But the job has significant growth potential — unlike Fed jobs which have been capped.

I don’t love it, but DW wants to quit her job and my job is likely ending — so you say I stay put until RIF, let her be breadwinner in job she hates, and then hope I can find some kind of work locally even for much less pay?

But you're focused on not moving your daughter. You didn't present the situation of you taking the job, your wife quitting and moving the whole family. If you can all move, then it's a calculated risk. If you're going to work across the country while your wife quits her local job to stay home with your high schooler (...?), that makes less sense. If she hates her job so much but you can't move, you should both be looking for new stuff locally.

Sorry. She would only keep her job while finishing high schoolers stint. The idea is with a private industry job that has comp that will eventually surpass the GS scale, it’s the right kind of opportunity to eventually have her quit. Otherwise if we both stay GS, she can’t quit for 12 years or so vs 3 if we move and I’m making more.

Or she could quit and get another job instead of staying home forever?

We have been BOTH actively looking for jobs. Our network is shallow as long time Feds — no one leaves our agencies and just retire from there. We are both IC working on technical work with narrow focus and not much collaboration with outside companies.

When she moves (in 3 years) she would likely get another job but we doubt it will be a GS15 pay range.

If you’re IC, stay put and gut it out. The market is saturated and if you haven’t already been RIFed, you probably won’t be. Sounds like your priority is your child ‘s stability, so that’s what you do. After she’s out of school you can reassess.

What do you mean? The administration was talking about huge RIFs just yesterday -- yes its cover for the shutdown, but realistically the are still planned they just saw the shutdown as an opportunity to up the timeline. I know at my agency they are planning to spin off our work to a company like Palantir on a contract.

[Anonymous]

Your other "don't split up the family" option would be to move to a 2-bedroom apartment downtown in your school zone and sell or rent your house. I'm the PP who makes a lot less than you, we did this for years with a *total* HHI lower than one GS-15 and a day care bill. If you'd rather move across the country from your family, that's absolutely your choice, but it is a choice and not something you have to do.

[Anonymous]

Depending on where the new job is, it's very possible your kid will be ahead in school and get into a much better college from there than they could here OP.

I know a couple who intentionally moved to NC so their teen could go to college in the UNC system, instead of being shut out coming from out of state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you’re considering leaving unstable job 1 in high COL city to take unstable job 2 - for the LESS pay - in another, high COL city where you’d be away from your wife and kid for 4 years? How is this even a question?

I mean current job has admin intent on eliminating.

The new job is “unstable” only that it’s in a tech company, which are inherently less stable than gov work. The company has been around 20 years and many people I’ve interviewed with have been working there for nearly a decade. I won’t feel stable in any private industry job in current “make it all AI” era…

But the job has significant growth potential — unlike Fed jobs which have been capped.

I don’t love it, but DW wants to quit her job and my job is likely ending — so you say I stay put until RIF, let her be breadwinner in job she hates, and then hope I can find some kind of work locally even for much less pay?

But you're focused on not moving your daughter. You didn't present the situation of you taking the job, your wife quitting and moving the whole family. If you can all move, then it's a calculated risk. If you're going to work across the country while your wife quits her local job to stay home with your high schooler (...?), that makes less sense. If she hates her job so much but you can't move, you should both be looking for new stuff locally.

Sorry. She would only keep her job while finishing high schoolers stint. The idea is with a private industry job that has comp that will eventually surpass the GS scale, it’s the right kind of opportunity to eventually have her quit. Otherwise if we both stay GS, she can’t quit for 12 years or so vs 3 if we move and I’m making more.

Or she could quit and get another job instead of staying home forever?

We have been BOTH actively looking for jobs. Our network is shallow as long time Feds — no one leaves our agencies and just retire from there. We are both IC working on technical work with narrow focus and not much collaboration with outside companies.

When she moves (in 3 years) she would likely get another job but we doubt it will be a GS15 pay range.

Go to professional conferences. Give talks or papers. Even if you have to take PTO and pay yourself. It's how to meet contacts.

I've gone to a bunch of conversations, and struck up dozens of conversations, but you can't do this for very long since they cost like $500/pop. None of really become connection, because I don't do any buying for our agency so no one really cares about my niche science except other scientists -- who also aren't hiring.

Giving papers would be a good option, I'll look into that, but that's a very long game and I generally don't have the bandwidth -- its not part of our usual work to author research.

Give a talk then. Those conferences have a program. Start looking at them and ones in past years. See who speaks and what about. Other scientists are useful contacts. They can let you know if they hear about openings. Science administrators or people with labs tend to have bigger horizons of contacts.
This might sound too expensive or time consuming but really, it's what people with marketplace private sector jobs, even in scientific roles DO. I know from lived experience. It's a long game now because it never occurred to you to play it all slong, apparently. You need a long game.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you’re considering leaving unstable job 1 in high COL city to take unstable job 2 - for the LESS pay - in another, high COL city where you’d be away from your wife and kid for 4 years? How is this even a question?

I mean current job has admin intent on eliminating.

The new job is “unstable” only that it’s in a tech company, which are inherently less stable than gov work. The company has been around 20 years and many people I’ve interviewed with have been working there for nearly a decade. I won’t feel stable in any private industry job in current “make it all AI” era…

But the job has significant growth potential — unlike Fed jobs which have been capped.

I don’t love it, but DW wants to quit her job and my job is likely ending — so you say I stay put until RIF, let her be breadwinner in job she hates, and then hope I can find some kind of work locally even for much less pay?

But you're focused on not moving your daughter. You didn't present the situation of you taking the job, your wife quitting and moving the whole family. If you can all move, then it's a calculated risk. If you're going to work across the country while your wife quits her local job to stay home with your high schooler (...?), that makes less sense. If she hates her job so much but you can't move, you should both be looking for new stuff locally.

Sorry. She would only keep her job while finishing high schoolers stint. The idea is with a private industry job that has comp that will eventually surpass the GS scale, it’s the right kind of opportunity to eventually have her quit. Otherwise if we both stay GS, she can’t quit for 12 years or so vs 3 if we move and I’m making more.

So your only options are wife stays in current job for 3 years and then doesn't have to work anymore, or wife stays in current job 12 years and doesn't work.

That's an insane way to deal with a job you dislike. I get that it's hard to transfer out of government right now, but you're reasoning as though she would NEVER be able to get another job in any field, ever. I bet she could find something within those 3 years.

Alternatively, with 3 years to look since it sounds like you don't plan on her quitting before then anyway, YOU could probably find something else locally. It might not be precisely equivalent but a family of 3 can live just fine on one GS-15 salary.

We would need to sell our house and likely move to a townhouse in Howard county or something to live off that. That is almost as bad as the move.

My god. You are not only behind the real world survival curve professionally but also elitist and dismissive of "those" people who raise families on GS-15 or less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you’re considering leaving unstable job 1 in high COL city to take unstable job 2 - for the LESS pay - in another, high COL city where you’d be away from your wife and kid for 4 years? How is this even a question?

I mean current job has admin intent on eliminating.

The new job is “unstable” only that it’s in a tech company, which are inherently less stable than gov work. The company has been around 20 years and many people I’ve interviewed with have been working there for nearly a decade. I won’t feel stable in any private industry job in current “make it all AI” era…

But the job has significant growth potential — unlike Fed jobs which have been capped.

I don’t love it, but DW wants to quit her job and my job is likely ending — so you say I stay put until RIF, let her be breadwinner in job she hates, and then hope I can find some kind of work locally even for much less pay?

But you're focused on not moving your daughter. You didn't present the situation of you taking the job, your wife quitting and moving the whole family. If you can all move, then it's a calculated risk. If you're going to work across the country while your wife quits her local job to stay home with your high schooler (...?), that makes less sense. If she hates her job so much but you can't move, you should both be looking for new stuff locally.

Sorry. She would only keep her job while finishing high schoolers stint. The idea is with a private industry job that has comp that will eventually surpass the GS scale, it’s the right kind of opportunity to eventually have her quit. Otherwise if we both stay GS, she can’t quit for 12 years or so vs 3 if we move and I’m making more.

So your only options are wife stays in current job for 3 years and then doesn't have to work anymore, or wife stays in current job 12 years and doesn't work.

That's an insane way to deal with a job you dislike. I get that it's hard to transfer out of government right now, but you're reasoning as though she would NEVER be able to get another job in any field, ever. I bet she could find something within those 3 years.

Alternatively, with 3 years to look since it sounds like you don't plan on her quitting before then anyway, YOU could probably find something else locally. It might not be precisely equivalent but a family of 3 can live just fine on one GS-15 salary.

We would need to sell our house and likely move to a townhouse in Howard county or something to live off that. That is almost as bad as the move.

Bro. You really need to see some kind of financial advisor. You and your spouse need to prioritize employment full stop. If that means selling your house to move to HoCo so be it. You seem to be dead set on “out of the frying pan and into the fire” though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your other "don't split up the family" option would be to move to a 2-bedroom apartment downtown in your school zone and sell or rent your house. I'm the PP who makes a lot less than you, we did this for years with a *total* HHI lower than one GS-15 and a day care bill. If you'd rather move across the country from your family, that's absolutely your choice, but it is a choice and not something you have to do.

This. I was a GS 15 living in Arlington. I lost my job and my new one pays $70k. We stayed in Arlington — family of 2 (one child and one adult).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Your other "don't split up the family" option would be to move to a 2-bedroom apartment downtown in your school zone and sell or rent your house. I'm the PP who makes a lot less than you, we did this for years with a *total* HHI lower than one GS-15 and a day care bill. If you'd rather move across the country from your family, that's absolutely your choice, but it is a choice and not something you have to do.

Throwing away money on an expensive rental is not going to help us.

But anyways, I already did look into that. The rentals in our school district cost as much as our mortgage -- we bought in 2019 so just missed the insane housing prices, but if you haven't paid attention, RENT IS INSANE. That is not a solution like it was in the past.

When we were staring out we rented for a long time with 2 kids, we know it's very doable. But it has big trade offs -- it's very isolating since very few families live in apartments in DC, it's mostly a suburban destination for families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you’re considering leaving unstable job 1 in high COL city to take unstable job 2 - for the LESS pay - in another, high COL city where you’d be away from your wife and kid for 4 years? How is this even a question?

I mean current job has admin intent on eliminating.

The new job is “unstable” only that it’s in a tech company, which are inherently less stable than gov work. The company has been around 20 years and many people I’ve interviewed with have been working there for nearly a decade. I won’t feel stable in any private industry job in current “make it all AI” era…

But the job has significant growth potential — unlike Fed jobs which have been capped.

I don’t love it, but DW wants to quit her job and my job is likely ending — so you say I stay put until RIF, let her be breadwinner in job she hates, and then hope I can find some kind of work locally even for much less pay?

But you're focused on not moving your daughter. You didn't present the situation of you taking the job, your wife quitting and moving the whole family. If you can all move, then it's a calculated risk. If you're going to work across the country while your wife quits her local job to stay home with your high schooler (...?), that makes less sense. If she hates her job so much but you can't move, you should both be looking for new stuff locally.

Sorry. She would only keep her job while finishing high schoolers stint. The idea is with a private industry job that has comp that will eventually surpass the GS scale, it’s the right kind of opportunity to eventually have her quit. Otherwise if we both stay GS, she can’t quit for 12 years or so vs 3 if we move and I’m making more.

Or she could quit and get another job instead of staying home forever?

We have been BOTH actively looking for jobs. Our network is shallow as long time Feds — no one leaves our agencies and just retire from there. We are both IC working on technical work with narrow focus and not much collaboration with outside companies.

When she moves (in 3 years) she would likely get another job but we doubt it will be a GS15 pay range.

Go to professional conferences. Give talks or papers. Even if you have to take PTO and pay yourself. It's how to meet contacts.

I've gone to a bunch of conversations, and struck up dozens of conversations, but you can't do this for very long since they cost like $500/pop. None of really become connection, because I don't do any buying for our agency so no one really cares about my niche science except other scientists -- who also aren't hiring.

Giving papers would be a good option, I'll look into that, but that's a very long game and I generally don't have the bandwidth -- its not part of our usual work to author research.

Give a talk then. Those conferences have a program. Start looking at them and ones in past years. See who speaks and what about. Other scientists are useful contacts. They can let you know if they hear about openings. Science administrators or people with labs tend to have bigger horizons of contacts.
This might sound too expensive or time consuming but really, it's what people with marketplace private sector jobs, even in scientific roles DO. I know from lived experience. It's a long game now because it never occurred to you to play it all slong, apparently. You need a long game.

People in the private sector largely have employers paying for their travel and conference fees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Your other "don't split up the family" option would be to move to a 2-bedroom apartment downtown in your school zone and sell or rent your house. I'm the PP who makes a lot less than you, we did this for years with a *total* HHI lower than one GS-15 and a day care bill. If you'd rather move across the country from your family, that's absolutely your choice, but it is a choice and not something you have to do.

Throwing away money on an expensive rental is not going to help us.

But anyways, I already did look into that. The rentals in our school district cost as much as our mortgage -- we bought in 2019 so just missed the insane housing prices, but if you haven't paid attention, RENT IS INSANE. That is not a solution like it was in the past.

When we were staring out we rented for a long time with 2 kids, we know it's very doable. But it has big trade offs -- it's very isolating since very few families live in apartments in DC, it's mostly a suburban destination for families.

Ffs OP wake up. You’re talking about your family being in potentially dire financial straits. The fact that you dislike apartment life is about 100th on the list of concerns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a fed social scientist facing RIF/reorg as well, and I wouldn't make this move. If not disrupting my family was a priority, I'd look for work outside my field and take a pay cut to stay in the area. (That is my plan, currently.)

This is a great way to end up unemployed.