For those of you who don't allow your teen to have a smart phone

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Anecdotally, my kid has four particular 13-14-year-old friends without a smart kid, and they are DMing my kid messages that include racial slurs, violence against girls, and pornography, sometimes after midnight (my kid has no access to a phone, iPad, or computer after 8 pm). Sometimes these messages come on a gaming platform. I’m sure none of your kids would do that, though.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like those kids should have a smart phone. So I am not sure what your point is. They should have a smart phone so they can send messages like that all day?
Kids get around parental restrictions (that's not new) and there is no foolproof way to monitor. Every system has holes that a teen could exploit.

The point is not that they should have a smartphone. The point is that even kids without smartphones are online, especially on SnapChat, which is how teens communicate—almost all of them are on it, even the ones whose parents have their heads in the sand.

My kid and her friends don't communicate via snapchat. They use other platforms. So no, all kids are not on snapchat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your kid has an iPhone and is on Instagram, TikTok, and Snapchat. You have ZERO room to judge or lecture other parents. I don't care if you are monitoring his usage (though I guarantee there are things your kid is doing online that you are unaware of), just regular use of those apps is bad for your kids brain. He could be watching wholesome cooking videos on TikTok and I'd still judge your decision here because it's short-circuiting his ability to focus and also who knows what other content he's getting via adds, comments, and suggested videos. TikTok is a cesspool that many adults can't even handle appropriately.

We got my kid a watch with texting capabilities so that she can contact us and have a bit more freedom. She needs parental approval on both sides to add a friend as a contact, and all the adults involved monitor the text chains. Also my kid is getting online safety lessons from us regularly, and while she has no access to social media, she knows what it is, knows why we don't permit it, and knows why it's dangerous and what specific behaviors are especially dangerous (including communicating with anyone you dont' know IRL, sharing photos or personally identifying info even just the background in an innocent photo, or trusting information you see online without verifying it elsewhere).

I don't buy that "the real problem" is people restricting their kids access to phones and social media, OMG.

Okay, but you do sound a little like the mom of my kid's friend who DOES have a Snapchat account that his mom doesn't know about and who has sent my kid DMs that are borderline child pornography. Now, her mom probably doesn't give her regular online safety lessons like you do, but she does believe her daughter has no access to social media, which is not the case.

I feel confident my kid is not on snapchat and is definitely not sending selfies to your son or kids like him. I think you like this idea that, actually, it's the kids with more limited access to phones or technology who are the "real" problem because it lets you off the hook for your own parenting choices which are being rightly criticized.

Have you considered that one reason that kids without phones are trying to set up rogue snapchat accounts is that your son is in the community with a phone and snapchat access? And that if you'd held off on giving him a phone or at least limited his access to the WORST APPS, there would be no way for some kid with insufficient parental supervision to DM your kid on that app with an inappropriate photo.

Like you are helping to create this problem and making it harder for the parents who are trying to protect their kids by restricting access, and now you're trying to spin it like "oh the REAL problem is these parents who don't buy their kids smart phones at the earliest possible age." Girl, no.

I'm sure it's not your daughter DMing my kid after midnight, but it's someone's daughter who believes she isn't on social media because she doesn't have a phone.

I can't argue with you on most of your points. I think social media is the biggest problem for our kids' generation. We aren't focused on solving the entire problem but on helping our kid navigate it.

Regarding having a smartphone or not, we made what we believe is the right choice for our kid due to unique circumstances (they kept losing their flip phone and Gizmo watch because they didn't value them, and we needed to be able to track and communicate with them when they were traveling). We've chosen to have a very open conversation about their online activity. We want them to trust us and come to us for help when they need to problem-solve. We gave them a privilege and stressed that it comes with responsibilities. Hard to say with certainty whether it was right or wrong to provide our kid with a smartphone when we did. My point is that not providing them with one isn't enough.

[Anonymous]

This thread is playing out exactly how it does.

It's never anyone's kids doing these things and the parents have it all figured out that their teen has great judgment and never says or does anything unwise or foolish online, immediately dumps all friends who are offensive in any way, and tells them everything. What are you going to say to that. Who cares. It's their problem if they are out to lunch, is my view. We all need to parent how we feel comfortable.

[Anonymous]

iPads are not safer than phones. It's as simple as that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:iPads are not safer than phones. It's as simple as that.

Of course not. Does anyone think that though? It's just not something they can easily carry around outside of the house. Which is an advantage, but it's same thing as a phone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:iPads are not safer than phones. It's as simple as that.

They don't carry their ipads around in their pocket every where they go. Ipads are used in common areas of house in full view also connected to wiki that has filters on it rather than cellular.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:iPads are not safer than phones. It's as simple as that.

They don't carry their ipads around in their pocket every where they go. Ipads are used in common areas of house in full view also connected to wiki that has filters on it rather than cellular.

My kid uses her ipad in common areas only but am I looking over her shoulder every second? Nope.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Anecdotally, my kid has four particular 13-14-year-old friends without a smart kid, and they are DMing my kid messages that include racial slurs, violence against girls, and pornography, sometimes after midnight (my kid has no access to a phone, iPad, or computer after 8 pm). Sometimes these messages come on a gaming platform. I’m sure none of your kids would do that, though.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like those kids should have a smart phone. So I am not sure what your point is. They should have a smart phone so they can send messages like that all day?
Kids get around parental restrictions (that's not new) and there is no foolproof way to monitor. Every system has holes that a teen could exploit.

+1, OP may be mistaking cause and effect here.

Most middle school kids I know have some kind of phone or way to text friends. Having no access at all to stuff like that indicates to me that potentially those parents tried and there was abuse of the technology and now they are trying to put the genie back in the bottle. OP might think "well my kid got a phone at 11 and he's a good kid, so the key to having a good kid is to give them a phone at 11. Uh.... no. Assuming OP's kid really isn't doing anything sketchy online, I'd say she got lucky there because 11 is WAY too young to have a smart phone and access to social media.

+2 OP is providing bad advice, when she should be enrolling in a basic statistics class to learn that correlation is not causation.

[Anonymous]

My teen has a flipphone for calling, a little texting. But honestly, not having a smartphone has been devastating. At 16, she
-reads and understands themes in classic literature
-knows how to reason linearly
-has a great attention span for tackling thorny problems
-can carry on fun and interesting conversations with people of all ages
-does not have an eating disorder or body-image issues
-is present in real life and not sucked into virtual life
-loves to work out with friends for the fun social vibes
-is an amazing cook, something she doesn't have to do but likes to do
-meets friends on the weekend to hike, ski, or swim depending on the season

She's gutted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My teen has a flipphone for calling, a little texting. But honestly, not having a smartphone has been devastating. At 16, she
-reads and understands themes in classic literature
-knows how to reason linearly
-has a great attention span for tackling thorny problems
-can carry on fun and interesting conversations with people of all ages
-does not have an eating disorder or body-image issues
-is present in real life and not sucked into virtual life
-loves to work out with friends for the fun social vibes
-is an amazing cook, something she doesn't have to do but likes to do
-meets friends on the weekend to hike, ski, or swim depending on the season

She's gutted.

I didn't see anyone arguing that kids should have a smartphone. The argument is that parents shouldn't assume that because their kids don't have smartphones, they aren't finding other ways to get on things like Snapchat, online games, whatever, and get sucked into virtual life, social media, and all the problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My teen has a flipphone for calling, a little texting. But honestly, not having a smartphone has been devastating. At 16, she
-reads and understands themes in classic literature
-knows how to reason linearly
-has a great attention span for tackling thorny problems
-can carry on fun and interesting conversations with people of all ages
-does not have an eating disorder or body-image issues
-is present in real life and not sucked into virtual life
-loves to work out with friends for the fun social vibes
-is an amazing cook, something she doesn't have to do but likes to do
-meets friends on the weekend to hike, ski, or swim depending on the season

She's gutted.

Damn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My teen has a flipphone for calling, a little texting. But honestly, not having a smartphone has been devastating. At 16, she
-reads and understands themes in classic literature
-knows how to reason linearly
-has a great attention span for tackling thorny problems
-can carry on fun and interesting conversations with people of all ages
-does not have an eating disorder or body-image issues
-is present in real life and not sucked into virtual life
-loves to work out with friends for the fun social vibes
-is an amazing cook, something she doesn't have to do but likes to do
-meets friends on the weekend to hike, ski, or swim depending on the season

She's gutted.

This was my son at 16, too, until I gave him a smart phone. He's retained all those traits you listed, but his neck posture has deteriorated and he looks at his phone a lot. Hold out as long as you can, pp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Anecdotally, my kid has four particular 13-14-year-old friends without a smart kid, and they are DMing my kid messages that include racial slurs, violence against girls, and pornography, sometimes after midnight (my kid has no access to a phone, iPad, or computer after 8 pm). Sometimes these messages come on a gaming platform. I’m sure none of your kids would do that, though.

Yeah, it doesn't seem like those kids should have a smart phone. So I am not sure what your point is. They should have a smart phone so they can send messages like that all day?
Kids get around parental restrictions (that's not new) and there is no foolproof way to monitor. Every system has holes that a teen could exploit.

+1, OP may be mistaking cause and effect here.

Most middle school kids I know have some kind of phone or way to text friends. Having no access at all to stuff like that indicates to me that potentially those parents tried and there was abuse of the technology and now they are trying to put the genie back in the bottle. OP might think "well my kid got a phone at 11 and he's a good kid, so the key to having a good kid is to give them a phone at 11. Uh.... no. Assuming OP's kid really isn't doing anything sketchy online, I'd say she got lucky there because 11 is WAY too young to have a smart phone and access to social media.

+2 OP is providing bad advice, when she should be enrolling in a basic statistics class to learn that correlation is not causation.

I'm neither arguing correlation nor causation. I get that just because the worst offenders in my kid's peer group are the ones without smartphones who are sneaking onto devices wherever they can, like in the middle of the night when their parents are asleep, doesn't mean that all kids without smartphones have issues. Perhaps many are doing great, like the PP with the ideal 16-year-old daughter. And some of them have problems. Maybe their parents know, and that's why they don't have smartphones, but maybe their parents are in total denial and think their kid is just like PP's wonderful daughter.

Also, surprised to hear so many on here say their kid isn't on Snapchat, as it directly contradicts what I hear from my kid and see on their Snapchat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, your kid has an iPhone and is on Instagram, TikTok, and Snapchat. You have ZERO room to judge or lecture other parents. I don't care if you are monitoring his usage (though I guarantee there are things your kid is doing online that you are unaware of), just regular use of those apps is bad for your kids brain. He could be watching wholesome cooking videos on TikTok and I'd still judge your decision here because it's short-circuiting his ability to focus and also who knows what other content he's getting via adds, comments, and suggested videos. TikTok is a cesspool that many adults can't even handle appropriately.

We got my kid a watch with texting capabilities so that she can contact us and have a bit more freedom. She needs parental approval on both sides to add a friend as a contact, and all the adults involved monitor the text chains. Also my kid is getting online safety lessons from us regularly, and while she has no access to social media, she knows what it is, knows why we don't permit it, and knows why it's dangerous and what specific behaviors are especially dangerous (including communicating with anyone you dont' know IRL, sharing photos or personally identifying info even just the background in an innocent photo, or trusting information you see online without verifying it elsewhere).

I don't buy that "the real problem" is people restricting their kids access to phones and social media, OMG.

Okay, but you do sound a little like the mom of my kid's friend who DOES have a Snapchat account that his mom doesn't know about and who has sent my kid DMs that are borderline child pornography. Now, her mom probably doesn't give her regular online safety lessons like you do, but she does believe her daughter has no access to social media, which is not the case.

I feel confident my kid is not on snapchat and is definitely not sending selfies to your son or kids like him. I think you like this idea that, actually, it's the kids with more limited access to phones or technology who are the "real" problem because it lets you off the hook for your own parenting choices which are being rightly criticized.

Have you considered that one reason that kids without phones are trying to set up rogue snapchat accounts is that your son is in the community with a phone and snapchat access? And that if you'd held off on giving him a phone or at least limited his access to the WORST APPS, there would be no way for some kid with insufficient parental supervision to DM your kid on that app with an inappropriate photo.

Like you are helping to create this problem and making it harder for the parents who are trying to protect their kids by restricting access, and now you're trying to spin it like "oh the REAL problem is these parents who don't buy their kids smart phones at the earliest possible age." Girl, no.

I'm sure it's not your daughter DMing my kid after midnight, but it's someone's daughter who believes she isn't on social media because she doesn't have a phone.

I can't argue with you on most of your points. I think social media is the biggest problem for our kids' generation. We aren't focused on solving the entire problem but on helping our kid navigate it.

Regarding having a smartphone or not, we made what we believe is the right choice for our kid due to unique circumstances (they kept losing their flip phone and Gizmo watch because they didn't value them, and we needed to be able to track and communicate with them when they were traveling). We've chosen to have a very open conversation about their online activity. We want them to trust us and come to us for help when they need to problem-solve. We gave them a privilege and stressed that it comes with responsibilities. Hard to say with certainty whether it was right or wrong to provide our kid with a smartphone when we did. My point is that not providing them with one isn't enough.

Your kid kept losing their Gizmo watch and their flip phone, so you got them an iPhone?

Please give me more parenting advice, this is fun.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is playing out exactly how it does.

It's never anyone's kids doing these things and the parents have it all figured out that their teen has great judgment and never says or does anything unwise or foolish online, immediately dumps all friends who are offensive in any way, and tells them everything. What are you going to say to that. Who cares. It's their problem if they are out to lunch, is my view. We all need to parent how we feel comfortable.

The thread is unfolding this way because OP posited a completely wrong and self-serving argument: that the teens without smart phones are the ones behaving the worst when it comes to technology and social media.

OP has disclosed that she got her son the iPhone when he was 11, that he has access to multiple social media platforms, that she thinks it's likely he's using private browsing to get around her supervision of the phone, that the phone was purchased for him after he repeatedly lost his Gizmo watch and flip phone, and that she believes her son is interacting with troubled kids who would misbehave with or without a smart phone.

There are interesting conversations to have about when and how to give your kids access to certain technology, and whether it makes sense to give them earlier access so that they can learn to use it responsibly, or delay access in the hopes that by the time they get it they will be mature enough to handle it. There are arguments on all sides. But that's not the conversation OP started. She decided to scold parents who have been more restrictive about giving their kids tech than she is, on a theory that makes no sense.