New "Dream Schools" from Selingo's new book ...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this basically a list of very solid colleges and universities that aren't super selective or very expensive?

yes. nothing impressive.

I think the point of the book is that students, and parents especially, are looking at college search the wrong way. People try to get into the "best" college they can get into, without critically assessing fit or value or colleges that can provide both but aren't even on their radar. The book starts with a profile of student who got into Columbia but was unhappy and did not find the student culture a fit at all, he ended up transferring to University of Minnesota, where he did find better fit and vibe had more content and less stressed students. Top ranked college is not equal to happiness. We all know this but he shares some powerful stories and data. He also shares that there isn't enough space in top colleges and they don't give enough aid, so many more of these other schools should be considered. Like a person who got into Bowdoin with zero aid and ended up another college with nearly full aid and lots of oter perks.

This! 4 of the 8 schools my older kid applied to are on that "large leaders" list, due to fit. Kid was accepted to Duke and turned it down - chose VT instead. And cost would have been nearly the same due to factors not relevant here. I've seen DCUM folks ridicule anyone who would turn down a T10 for a place like VT but I can tell you, my kid is living their best life in Blacksburg, has had paid internships every summer, and doesn't regret the choice for a minute. Fit was a huge factor in our search for schools my Hokie and their younger sibling. Prestige isn't the end all be all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this basically a list of very solid colleges and universities that aren't super selective or very expensive?

yes. nothing impressive.

I think the point of the book is that students, and parents especially, are looking at college search the wrong way. People try to get into the "best" college they can get into, without critically assessing fit or value or colleges that can provide both but aren't even on their radar. The book starts with a profile of student who got into Columbia but was unhappy and did not find the student culture a fit at all, he ended up transferring to University of Minnesota, where he did find better fit and vibe had more content and less stressed students. Top ranked college is not equal to happiness. We all know this but he shares some powerful stories and data. He also shares that there isn't enough space in top colleges and they don't give enough aid, so many more of these other schools should be considered. Like a person who got into Bowdoin with zero aid and ended up another college with nearly full aid and lots of oter perks.

This! 4 of the 8 schools my older kid applied to are on that "large leaders" list, due to fit. Kid was accepted to Duke and turned it down - chose VT instead. And cost would have been nearly the same due to factors not relevant here. I've seen DCUM folks ridicule anyone who would turn down a T10 for a place like VT but I can tell you, my kid is living their best life in Blacksburg, has had paid internships every summer, and doesn't regret the choice for a minute. Fit was a huge factor in our search for schools my Hokie and their younger sibling. Prestige isn't the end all be all.

I think that's admirable that you and they didn't chase prestige.

My kid really wanted CMU, didn't get it, and is now at UMD. They've been there a couple of years, and they realize that in hindsight, they would probably not have been happy at CMU because while DC is a super high achiever (4.0), they are not a grinder, and they like to socialize (ahem.. party). They have had two internships so far and seems happy at UMD. They did tour CMU and talked to a few people there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is this basically a list of very solid colleges and universities that aren't super selective or very expensive?

yes. nothing impressive.

I think the point of the book is that students, and parents especially, are looking at college search the wrong way. People try to get into the "best" college they can get into, without critically assessing fit or value or colleges that can provide both but aren't even on their radar. The book starts with a profile of student who got into Columbia but was unhappy and did not find the student culture a fit at all, he ended up transferring to University of Minnesota, where he did find better fit and vibe had more content and less stressed students. Top ranked college is not equal to happiness. We all know this but he shares some powerful stories and data. He also shares that there isn't enough space in top colleges and they don't give enough aid, so many more of these other schools should be considered. Like a person who got into Bowdoin with zero aid and ended up another college with nearly full aid and lots of oter perks.

This! 4 of the 8 schools my older kid applied to are on that "large leaders" list, due to fit. Kid was accepted to Duke and turned it down - chose VT instead. And cost would have been nearly the same due to factors not relevant here. I've seen DCUM folks ridicule anyone who would turn down a T10 for a place like VT but I can tell you, my kid is living their best life in Blacksburg, has had paid internships every summer, and doesn't regret the choice for a minute. Fit was a huge factor in our search for schools my Hokie and their younger sibling. Prestige isn't the end all be all.

OTC, I know people who would give a limb to have their kids attend VT. It’s a great school, all-around.

[Anonymous]

The "hidden value" list is a list of schools I would not spend my money on. If those are my kids options, in-state it is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The "hidden value" list is a list of schools I would not spend my money on. If those are my kids options, in-state it is.

Isn't the assumption that those would be nearly free due to merit? Otherwise, I 100% agree with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "hidden value" list is a list of schools I would not spend my money on. If those are my kids options, in-state it is.

Isn't the assumption that those would be nearly free due to merit? Otherwise, I 100% agree with you.

I suspect that they get down to State costs with merit, not nearly free. There are schools on that list that are far better than most state schools.

[Anonymous]

I guess it’s a good list for those looking for massive merit aid. I think the schools are FINE. As in there is nothing wrong with them. There’s also nothing massively impressive or redeeming or unique about any of them. Many are literally interchangeable. In which case why bother CHOOSING a school at all- just go in state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The "hidden value" list is a list of schools I would not spend my money on. If those are my kids options, in-state it is.

They give a lot of merit. I think you also have to read his commentary to understand why each school is listed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The "hidden value" list is a list of schools I would not spend my money on. If those are my kids options, in-state it is.

Isn't the assumption that those would be nearly free due to merit? Otherwise, I 100% agree with you.

Yes, I know two families where one DD got a full ride to DU (University of Denver) and another family where the DS got a full ride to Gettysburg.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:List of new "Dream Schools". He adds more detail and "stand-out factor" for each in his new book:

Large Leaders:
Arizona State University (AZ)
Case Western Reserve University (OH)
Clemson University (SC)
Colorado State University (CO)
Drexel University (PA)
Fordham University (NY)
Howard University (DC)
Indiana University - Bloomington (IN)
Miami University of Ohio (OH)
Michigan State University (MI)
North Carolina State University (NC)
Oregon State University (OR)
Rochester Institute of Technology (NY)
Rutgers University (NJ)
Southern Methodist University (TX)
Spelman College (GA)
Syracuse University (NY)
Texas A&M University (TX)
University of Alabama (AL)
University of California, Davis (CA)
University of California, San Diego (CA)
University of Connecticut (CT)
University of Delaware (DE)
University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign (IL)
University of Iowa (IA)
University of Kentucky (KY)
University of Maryland, College Park (MD)
University of Massachusetts, Amherst (MA)
University of Minnesota (MN)
University of Missouri - Columbia (MO)
University of Oklahoma (OK)
University of Pittsburgh (PA)
University of Utah (UT)
Virginia Tech (VA)
College of William & Mary (VA)

This is a good list of schools that are rising in demand. I know several kids in our school whose parents say they are really happy and thriving at the above schools I BOLDED above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I guess it’s a good list for those looking for massive merit aid. I think the schools are FINE. As in there is nothing wrong with them. There’s also nothing massively impressive or redeeming or unique about any of them. Many are literally interchangeable. In which case why bother CHOOSING a school at all- just go in state.

I know three kids going to schools on that list out of state but paying less than it would cost to go in state.

Especially in Virginia, in state schools are not always the cheapest option.

[Anonymous]

90% of the students fit at 90% of the schools.

Unless you are talking about super specialized universities like say MIT or Caltech, most students fit into any college once they have a rough idea of the major and size of college. Maybe urban or a remote college town and even this most students can do fine at either.

What else is there?

The focus on fit is just a lot of busy work to create mental diversion from the stress of applying to selective colleges.

[Anonymous]

For the longest period of time students just went to the nearby state university. There is fussing about "fit".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I guess it’s a good list for those looking for massive merit aid. I think the schools are FINE. As in there is nothing wrong with them. There’s also nothing massively impressive or redeeming or unique about any of them. Many are literally interchangeable. In which case why bother CHOOSING a school at all- just go in state.

I know three kids going to schools on that list out of state but paying less than it would cost to go in state.

Especially in Virginia, in state schools are not always the cheapest option.

+1

[Anonymous]

Correction: There is no fussing about "fit".