Elementary School Misbehavior and Violence

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look email the teacher. The thing with the kid getting violent etc is that the kid more than likely has an IEP for learning disability plus emotional behavioral disorder. The parents want the kid mainstreamed but the kid needs services and are receiving them. There’s not much you can do besides request your child not be in the same class with that kid. At recess, it’s not fair game but what every parent says I don’t want my kid to have recess with the school wild child that’s unreasonable and unrealistic for all the kids. Likely what hopefully happens is after K and 1st the kid gets better social control of themselves or they end up at like Burke school. The thing is you can’t just shove kids into a program without clear support for why. Maybe he does need more support but for now they need to document to get him there and also to show the parents that the current learning environment is not the best one for the child. You gotta remember sometimes parents are their kids own worst enemies because they want to prevent their kid from being defined as different.

Idk why people say inmates run the asylum this is just how things work. It’s complicated but we can’t just assume because Jimmy walks out to recess one day and starts punching over kids because he wants to use the slide that Jimmy should be somewhere else. But idk this thread some people seem like we shouldn’t even wait to see if it happens like that. Oh that kids wild get him away from kid and to special place. But I think we all know that in the real world, there’s all sorts of people out there some with and without issues

This is hogwash. If the entire staff has not been trained then I’d argue the school isn’t even equipped to handle this level of care, that lack of training alone should result in immediate outside placement. I’ve worked in the worst schools you can imagine, the difference is the ENTIRE SCHOOL was trained for this. Rarely, VERY rarely, did student to student contact take place. Not because problems didn’t happen-they did multiple times per day- but because they trained us. Very well. Student to student contact is like the worst thing that can happen. You don’t just sit around and allow that to continue.

Teachers and parents saying this is just how it goes is absurd and borderline negligent. The adults need to make noise, lots of noise. Empower your children, give them an out. You don’t just tell them to sit there and wait to be victimized. If that were my child I’d tell them to say I’m not safe here I’ll be in the office and leave immediately. Every single time Larlo starts acting out or they feel unsafe. Let the school call me and complain about my child seeking refuge, I’m here for it.

I learned in public schools if there is enough disruption to the point of chaos for other students and staff changes get made. Every adult involved needs to be protecting these children, the ones exhibiting the problem behavior and others in the school. They need to be complaining and reporting this and requesting assessments where applicable and refusing to work without proper training. It’s not hard to be injured when students are like this and it happens very quickly and once it escalates it’s often difficult to deescalate. You’re placing the children and adults in danger if you’re passively doing nothing. This is unacceptable.

If you ever taught in FCPS or tried to raise an issue in FCPS, you'd know that the only thing they respond to is negative press from major outlets, or laws from Richmond. Anything less and they send you form email responses (if that) and ignore you. That goes for both teachers and parents, emails to Gatehouse-level staff and the school board. There are very rare exceptions, and the one I'm thinking of off the top of my head (Megan McLaughlin) retired from the SB already.

The lack of response doesn't go for admin and teachers at schools, in my experience. They really are trying. But above that, starting at the region principals? They really, really, really don't care.

If they were actually trying then that child would not have been able to touch the other students much less injure them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not sure why you would rather crowdsource this than just call and make an appointment with the school counselor.

Op here. Because I wanted to be sure I wasn't overreacting? Admin and teachers have so much that they're dealing with that I don't want to bother them for something that I'm over reacting about.

My biggest issue is that my 9 year old was upset by whatever they saw go down and, if what my child says is correct, there should have at least been a check in that everyone was okay.

Based on the responses on this thread, I'll reach out to their teacher and hopefully if this happens again, they'll be more equipped to handle the kids who struggle with seeing other kids being violent towards not one but at least 3 teachers/admin at the school.

In my school we have so many kids causing these behaviors. No one ever checks in on the kids. It’s just the norm.

[Anonymous]

My kid had a violent classmate in 3rd grade who even punched a teacher. The kid stayed in the class the whole year. It was awful for everyone but special ed kids get priority over everyone else. And before anyone says this is why they want their kids in AAP, this was an AAP class. There’s lots of “twice exceptional” kids in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look email the teacher. The thing with the kid getting violent etc is that the kid more than likely has an IEP for learning disability plus emotional behavioral disorder. The parents want the kid mainstreamed but the kid needs services and are receiving them. There’s not much you can do besides request your child not be in the same class with that kid. At recess, it’s not fair game but what every parent says I don’t want my kid to have recess with the school wild child that’s unreasonable and unrealistic for all the kids. Likely what hopefully happens is after K and 1st the kid gets better social control of themselves or they end up at like Burke school. The thing is you can’t just shove kids into a program without clear support for why. Maybe he does need more support but for now they need to document to get him there and also to show the parents that the current learning environment is not the best one for the child. You gotta remember sometimes parents are their kids own worst enemies because they want to prevent their kid from being defined as different.

Idk why people say inmates run the asylum this is just how things work. It’s complicated but we can’t just assume because Jimmy walks out to recess one day and starts punching over kids because he wants to use the slide that Jimmy should be somewhere else. But idk this thread some people seem like we shouldn’t even wait to see if it happens like that. Oh that kids wild get him away from kid and to special place. But I think we all know that in the real world, there’s all sorts of people out there some with and without issues

This is hogwash. If the entire staff has not been trained then I’d argue the school isn’t even equipped to handle this level of care, that lack of training alone should result in immediate outside placement. I’ve worked in the worst schools you can imagine, the difference is the ENTIRE SCHOOL was trained for this. Rarely, VERY rarely, did student to student contact take place. Not because problems didn’t happen-they did multiple times per day- but because they trained us. Very well. Student to student contact is like the worst thing that can happen. You don’t just sit around and allow that to continue.

Teachers and parents saying this is just how it goes is absurd and borderline negligent. The adults need to make noise, lots of noise. Empower your children, give them an out. You don’t just tell them to sit there and wait to be victimized. If that were my child I’d tell them to say I’m not safe here I’ll be in the office and leave immediately. Every single time Larlo starts acting out or they feel unsafe. Let the school call me and complain about my child seeking refuge, I’m here for it.

I learned in public schools if there is enough disruption to the point of chaos for other students and staff changes get made. Every adult involved needs to be protecting these children, the ones exhibiting the problem behavior and others in the school. They need to be complaining and reporting this and requesting assessments where applicable and refusing to work without proper training. It’s not hard to be injured when students are like this and it happens very quickly and once it escalates it’s often difficult to deescalate. You’re placing the children and adults in danger if you’re passively doing nothing. This is unacceptable.

If you ever taught in FCPS or tried to raise an issue in FCPS, you'd know that the only thing they respond to is negative press from major outlets, or laws from Richmond. Anything less and they send you form email responses (if that) and ignore you. That goes for both teachers and parents, emails to Gatehouse-level staff and the school board. There are very rare exceptions, and the one I'm thinking of off the top of my head (Megan McLaughlin) retired from the SB already.

The lack of response doesn't go for admin and teachers at schools, in my experience. They really are trying. But above that, starting at the region principals? They really, really, really don't care.

If they were actually trying then that child would not have been able to touch the other students much less injure them.

As quoted PP indicated, there's a certain amount of training that goes into keeping students from hurting each other without hurting a student in turn. Can you imagine the hue and cry if a teacher accidentally injured a violent SPED student while trying to keep them from hurting someone? After all those restraint and seclusion articles in the past few years? It would be nightmarish for that teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look email the teacher. The thing with the kid getting violent etc is that the kid more than likely has an IEP for learning disability plus emotional behavioral disorder. The parents want the kid mainstreamed but the kid needs services and are receiving them. There’s not much you can do besides request your child not be in the same class with that kid. At recess, it’s not fair game but what every parent says I don’t want my kid to have recess with the school wild child that’s unreasonable and unrealistic for all the kids. Likely what hopefully happens is after K and 1st the kid gets better social control of themselves or they end up at like Burke school. The thing is you can’t just shove kids into a program without clear support for why. Maybe he does need more support but for now they need to document to get him there and also to show the parents that the current learning environment is not the best one for the child. You gotta remember sometimes parents are their kids own worst enemies because they want to prevent their kid from being defined as different.

Idk why people say inmates run the asylum this is just how things work. It’s complicated but we can’t just assume because Jimmy walks out to recess one day and starts punching over kids because he wants to use the slide that Jimmy should be somewhere else. But idk this thread some people seem like we shouldn’t even wait to see if it happens like that. Oh that kids wild get him away from kid and to special place. But I think we all know that in the real world, there’s all sorts of people out there some with and without issues

This is hogwash. If the entire staff has not been trained then I’d argue the school isn’t even equipped to handle this level of care, that lack of training alone should result in immediate outside placement. I’ve worked in the worst schools you can imagine, the difference is the ENTIRE SCHOOL was trained for this. Rarely, VERY rarely, did student to student contact take place. Not because problems didn’t happen-they did multiple times per day- but because they trained us. Very well. Student to student contact is like the worst thing that can happen. You don’t just sit around and allow that to continue.

Teachers and parents saying this is just how it goes is absurd and borderline negligent. The adults need to make noise, lots of noise. Empower your children, give them an out. You don’t just tell them to sit there and wait to be victimized. If that were my child I’d tell them to say I’m not safe here I’ll be in the office and leave immediately. Every single time Larlo starts acting out or they feel unsafe. Let the school call me and complain about my child seeking refuge, I’m here for it.

I learned in public schools if there is enough disruption to the point of chaos for other students and staff changes get made. Every adult involved needs to be protecting these children, the ones exhibiting the problem behavior and others in the school. They need to be complaining and reporting this and requesting assessments where applicable and refusing to work without proper training. It’s not hard to be injured when students are like this and it happens very quickly and once it escalates it’s often difficult to deescalate. You’re placing the children and adults in danger if you’re passively doing nothing. This is unacceptable.

If you ever taught in FCPS or tried to raise an issue in FCPS, you'd know that the only thing they respond to is negative press from major outlets, or laws from Richmond. Anything less and they send you form email responses (if that) and ignore you. That goes for both teachers and parents, emails to Gatehouse-level staff and the school board. There are very rare exceptions, and the one I'm thinking of off the top of my head (Megan McLaughlin) retired from the SB already.

The lack of response doesn't go for admin and teachers at schools, in my experience. They really are trying. But above that, starting at the region principals? They really, really, really don't care.

If they were actually trying then that child would not have been able to touch the other students much less injure them.

As quoted PP indicated, there's a certain amount of training that goes into keeping students from hurting each other without hurting a student in turn. Can you imagine the hue and cry if a teacher accidentally injured a violent SPED student while trying to keep them from hurting someone? After all those restraint and seclusion articles in the past few years? It would be nightmarish for that teacher.

I’m familiar with restraint and seclusion, those types of incidents occur when the teachers aren’t trained. Which is exactly the problem with FCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look email the teacher. The thing with the kid getting violent etc is that the kid more than likely has an IEP for learning disability plus emotional behavioral disorder. The parents want the kid mainstreamed but the kid needs services and are receiving them. There’s not much you can do besides request your child not be in the same class with that kid. At recess, it’s not fair game but what every parent says I don’t want my kid to have recess with the school wild child that’s unreasonable and unrealistic for all the kids. Likely what hopefully happens is after K and 1st the kid gets better social control of themselves or they end up at like Burke school. The thing is you can’t just shove kids into a program without clear support for why. Maybe he does need more support but for now they need to document to get him there and also to show the parents that the current learning environment is not the best one for the child. You gotta remember sometimes parents are their kids own worst enemies because they want to prevent their kid from being defined as different.

Idk why people say inmates run the asylum this is just how things work. It’s complicated but we can’t just assume because Jimmy walks out to recess one day and starts punching over kids because he wants to use the slide that Jimmy should be somewhere else. But idk this thread some people seem like we shouldn’t even wait to see if it happens like that. Oh that kids wild get him away from kid and to special place. But I think we all know that in the real world, there’s all sorts of people out there some with and without issues

This is hogwash. If the entire staff has not been trained then I’d argue the school isn’t even equipped to handle this level of care, that lack of training alone should result in immediate outside placement. I’ve worked in the worst schools you can imagine, the difference is the ENTIRE SCHOOL was trained for this. Rarely, VERY rarely, did student to student contact take place. Not because problems didn’t happen-they did multiple times per day- but because they trained us. Very well. Student to student contact is like the worst thing that can happen. You don’t just sit around and allow that to continue.

Teachers and parents saying this is just how it goes is absurd and borderline negligent. The adults need to make noise, lots of noise. Empower your children, give them an out. You don’t just tell them to sit there and wait to be victimized. If that were my child I’d tell them to say I’m not safe here I’ll be in the office and leave immediately. Every single time Larlo starts acting out or they feel unsafe. Let the school call me and complain about my child seeking refuge, I’m here for it.

I learned in public schools if there is enough disruption to the point of chaos for other students and staff changes get made. Every adult involved needs to be protecting these children, the ones exhibiting the problem behavior and others in the school. They need to be complaining and reporting this and requesting assessments where applicable and refusing to work without proper training. It’s not hard to be injured when students are like this and it happens very quickly and once it escalates it’s often difficult to deescalate. You’re placing the children and adults in danger if you’re passively doing nothing. This is unacceptable.

If you ever taught in FCPS or tried to raise an issue in FCPS, you'd know that the only thing they respond to is negative press from major outlets, or laws from Richmond. Anything less and they send you form email responses (if that) and ignore you. That goes for both teachers and parents, emails to Gatehouse-level staff and the school board. There are very rare exceptions, and the one I'm thinking of off the top of my head (Megan McLaughlin) retired from the SB already.

The lack of response doesn't go for admin and teachers at schools, in my experience. They really are trying. But above that, starting at the region principals? They really, really, really don't care.

If they were actually trying then that child would not have been able to touch the other students much less injure them.

As quoted PP indicated, there's a certain amount of training that goes into keeping students from hurting each other without hurting a student in turn. Can you imagine the hue and cry if a teacher accidentally injured a violent SPED student while trying to keep them from hurting someone? After all those restraint and seclusion articles in the past few years? It would be nightmarish for that teacher.

I’m familiar with restraint and seclusion, those types of incidents occur when the teachers aren’t trained. Which is exactly the problem with FCPS.

Yes. The current idea is that you remove the rest of the class. Therefore, there is no one for the child to hit or kick.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The general population of school children has been a wasteland. We need to demand normalcy whatever the cost.

It’s really not the norm but all it takes is 1-2 kids to mess it up for everyone. And then you get the effect of, oh those two can’t be in a class together so we need to separate them, so now fully 2/3 or 2/4 of the ES classes have a behavioral case in them, oh and one of them is AAP too and his parents are fully resisting any more restricting environment … it’s a huge mess. And the self-contained kids won’t be disrupting a general education classroom, but all bets are off at lunch or recess, or before and after school or on the bus or what have you.

[Anonymous]

We need more classrooms and teachers for SPED students with dysrequlation issues. But we don't want to pay the teachers the money they need or pay for the increased number of teachers needed. Or pay for the space that is needed. There are no appropriate placement options and the schools are forced to drag out the process because a child needs to get to a certain threshold before the admin outside the school will authorize placement in a specialized classroom.

Parents already complain about the amount of money that goes into SPED, not realizing how much the special programs, reading/math specialists, aides, 1-1 aides, materials, classrooms, and bussing cost. It is a lot. We are losing SPED teachers faster than any other group of teachers because there is not enough admin support, in the form of case workers and people to handle paper work, nevermind actual Admin support, backing the teacher and working to find solutions.

It would help if schools could actually discipline kids, but they can't. And it would help if parents reinforced school rules and discipline at home, but many don't. Kids violate class rules, teachers discipline the kid, teachers get in trouble for making the kid feel bad. Teachers send the kid to the office; the kid comes back with a snack or a toy and returns to whatever behavior they had been doing. Teacher calls the parent, who complains tot he principal that the teacher is being mean, and the teacher gets in trouble.

It is ridiculous. And so teachers are quitting, less experienced teachers are in classes and it just gets worse.

But suggest paying teachers a reasonable wage and allowing for actual discipline and you are crazy. Many of the kids acting out are not SPED, they are poorly disciplined at home and there are no consequences at school. SPED kids who are really struggling need self contained classes to help them develop the skills that they need but those classes don't exist. The system is broken but we don't want to fix it because it costs too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look email the teacher. The thing with the kid getting violent etc is that the kid more than likely has an IEP for learning disability plus emotional behavioral disorder. The parents want the kid mainstreamed but the kid needs services and are receiving them. There’s not much you can do besides request your child not be in the same class with that kid. At recess, it’s not fair game but what every parent says I don’t want my kid to have recess with the school wild child that’s unreasonable and unrealistic for all the kids. Likely what hopefully happens is after K and 1st the kid gets better social control of themselves or they end up at like Burke school. The thing is you can’t just shove kids into a program without clear support for why. Maybe he does need more support but for now they need to document to get him there and also to show the parents that the current learning environment is not the best one for the child. You gotta remember sometimes parents are their kids own worst enemies because they want to prevent their kid from being defined as different.

Idk why people say inmates run the asylum this is just how things work. It’s complicated but we can’t just assume because Jimmy walks out to recess one day and starts punching over kids because he wants to use the slide that Jimmy should be somewhere else. But idk this thread some people seem like we shouldn’t even wait to see if it happens like that. Oh that kids wild get him away from kid and to special place. But I think we all know that in the real world, there’s all sorts of people out there some with and without issues

This is hogwash. If the entire staff has not been trained then I’d argue the school isn’t even equipped to handle this level of care, that lack of training alone should result in immediate outside placement. I’ve worked in the worst schools you can imagine, the difference is the ENTIRE SCHOOL was trained for this. Rarely, VERY rarely, did student to student contact take place. Not because problems didn’t happen-they did multiple times per day- but because they trained us. Very well. Student to student contact is like the worst thing that can happen. You don’t just sit around and allow that to continue.

Teachers and parents saying this is just how it goes is absurd and borderline negligent. The adults need to make noise, lots of noise. Empower your children, give them an out. You don’t just tell them to sit there and wait to be victimized. If that were my child I’d tell them to say I’m not safe here I’ll be in the office and leave immediately. Every single time Larlo starts acting out or they feel unsafe. Let the school call me and complain about my child seeking refuge, I’m here for it.

I learned in public schools if there is enough disruption to the point of chaos for other students and staff changes get made. Every adult involved needs to be protecting these children, the ones exhibiting the problem behavior and others in the school. They need to be complaining and reporting this and requesting assessments where applicable and refusing to work without proper training. It’s not hard to be injured when students are like this and it happens very quickly and once it escalates it’s often difficult to deescalate. You’re placing the children and adults in danger if you’re passively doing nothing. This is unacceptable.

If you ever taught in FCPS or tried to raise an issue in FCPS, you'd know that the only thing they respond to is negative press from major outlets, or laws from Richmond. Anything less and they send you form email responses (if that) and ignore you. That goes for both teachers and parents, emails to Gatehouse-level staff and the school board. There are very rare exceptions, and the one I'm thinking of off the top of my head (Megan McLaughlin) retired from the SB already.

The lack of response doesn't go for admin and teachers at schools, in my experience. They really are trying. But above that, starting at the region principals? They really, really, really don't care.

If they were actually trying then that child would not have been able to touch the other students much less injure them.

As quoted PP indicated, there's a certain amount of training that goes into keeping students from hurting each other without hurting a student in turn. Can you imagine the hue and cry if a teacher accidentally injured a violent SPED student while trying to keep them from hurting someone? After all those restraint and seclusion articles in the past few years? It would be nightmarish for that teacher.

I’m familiar with restraint and seclusion, those types of incidents occur when the teachers aren’t trained. Which is exactly the problem with FCPS.

FCPS spent a boatload of money on Ross Greene training when they took away restraint and seclusion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look email the teacher. The thing with the kid getting violent etc is that the kid more than likely has an IEP for learning disability plus emotional behavioral disorder. The parents want the kid mainstreamed but the kid needs services and are receiving them. There’s not much you can do besides request your child not be in the same class with that kid. At recess, it’s not fair game but what every parent says I don’t want my kid to have recess with the school wild child that’s unreasonable and unrealistic for all the kids. Likely what hopefully happens is after K and 1st the kid gets better social control of themselves or they end up at like Burke school. The thing is you can’t just shove kids into a program without clear support for why. Maybe he does need more support but for now they need to document to get him there and also to show the parents that the current learning environment is not the best one for the child. You gotta remember sometimes parents are their kids own worst enemies because they want to prevent their kid from being defined as different.

Idk why people say inmates run the asylum this is just how things work. It’s complicated but we can’t just assume because Jimmy walks out to recess one day and starts punching over kids because he wants to use the slide that Jimmy should be somewhere else. But idk this thread some people seem like we shouldn’t even wait to see if it happens like that. Oh that kids wild get him away from kid and to special place. But I think we all know that in the real world, there’s all sorts of people out there some with and without issues

This is hogwash. If the entire staff has not been trained then I’d argue the school isn’t even equipped to handle this level of care, that lack of training alone should result in immediate outside placement. I’ve worked in the worst schools you can imagine, the difference is the ENTIRE SCHOOL was trained for this. Rarely, VERY rarely, did student to student contact take place. Not because problems didn’t happen-they did multiple times per day- but because they trained us. Very well. Student to student contact is like the worst thing that can happen. You don’t just sit around and allow that to continue.

Teachers and parents saying this is just how it goes is absurd and borderline negligent. The adults need to make noise, lots of noise. Empower your children, give them an out. You don’t just tell them to sit there and wait to be victimized. If that were my child I’d tell them to say I’m not safe here I’ll be in the office and leave immediately. Every single time Larlo starts acting out or they feel unsafe. Let the school call me and complain about my child seeking refuge, I’m here for it.

I learned in public schools if there is enough disruption to the point of chaos for other students and staff changes get made. Every adult involved needs to be protecting these children, the ones exhibiting the problem behavior and others in the school. They need to be complaining and reporting this and requesting assessments where applicable and refusing to work without proper training. It’s not hard to be injured when students are like this and it happens very quickly and once it escalates it’s often difficult to deescalate. You’re placing the children and adults in danger if you’re passively doing nothing. This is unacceptable.

If you ever taught in FCPS or tried to raise an issue in FCPS, you'd know that the only thing they respond to is negative press from major outlets, or laws from Richmond. Anything less and they send you form email responses (if that) and ignore you. That goes for both teachers and parents, emails to Gatehouse-level staff and the school board. There are very rare exceptions, and the one I'm thinking of off the top of my head (Megan McLaughlin) retired from the SB already.

The lack of response doesn't go for admin and teachers at schools, in my experience. They really are trying. But above that, starting at the region principals? They really, really, really don't care.

If they were actually trying then that child would not have been able to touch the other students much less injure them.

As quoted PP indicated, there's a certain amount of training that goes into keeping students from hurting each other without hurting a student in turn. Can you imagine the hue and cry if a teacher accidentally injured a violent SPED student while trying to keep them from hurting someone? After all those restraint and seclusion articles in the past few years? It would be nightmarish for that teacher.

I’m familiar with restraint and seclusion, those types of incidents occur when the teachers aren’t trained. Which is exactly the problem with FCPS.

FCPS spent a boatload of money on Ross Greene training when they took away restraint and seclusion.

Ross Greene training is for basic noncompliance, not severe aggression to others. FCPS simply is not equipped to handle children like this. I don’t understand how they do nothing, it’s a huge liability.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The school won’t tell you anything. But this kind of thing does happen all the time, unfortunately.

+1

Also, I'm not sure this is really that different from when we were in school (or for those ages is developmentally inappropriate), but we had less interference from adults then, for better or worse. Not sure that having more involvement by adults has helped much, tbh.

Do you mean different in teacher communication or kids acting like that?

Because I can tell you, it was not like that when I went to school or when I taught. And, I taught in some pretty rough neighborhoods.
I never remember a child having a full time aide, ever. Those kids were in a different type of environment and should be now.

Any child that needs a full time aide due to behavior issues needs a special environment. If he/she is a danger to other kids, it should be a very special environment.

In the state where I grew up, in the 70s and early 80s we still had "paddling" for grade schools.

The parents had to sign a permission form.

If a kid did something like OP described and the parents signed the form, the kid would go to the office, bend over, and get 2 seats on the rear with a wooden paddle over their clothes.

It hurt and was embarrassing, but it seemed to quickly quell that kind of socially unacceptable behavior.

If really bad behavior was a pattern, the kid was expelled from the school and moved to a school for kids who couldn't behave, or if the parents had money, into Catholic schools where the tolerance for that kind of behavior was even lower and discipline was required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look email the teacher. The thing with the kid getting violent etc is that the kid more than likely has an IEP for learning disability plus emotional behavioral disorder. The parents want the kid mainstreamed but the kid needs services and are receiving them. There’s not much you can do besides request your child not be in the same class with that kid. At recess, it’s not fair game but what every parent says I don’t want my kid to have recess with the school wild child that’s unreasonable and unrealistic for all the kids. Likely what hopefully happens is after K and 1st the kid gets better social control of themselves or they end up at like Burke school. The thing is you can’t just shove kids into a program without clear support for why. Maybe he does need more support but for now they need to document to get him there and also to show the parents that the current learning environment is not the best one for the child. You gotta remember sometimes parents are their kids own worst enemies because they want to prevent their kid from being defined as different.

Idk why people say inmates run the asylum this is just how things work. It’s complicated but we can’t just assume because Jimmy walks out to recess one day and starts punching over kids because he wants to use the slide that Jimmy should be somewhere else. But idk this thread some people seem like we shouldn’t even wait to see if it happens like that. Oh that kids wild get him away from kid and to special place. But I think we all know that in the real world, there’s all sorts of people out there some with and without issues

This is hogwash. If the entire staff has not been trained then I’d argue the school isn’t even equipped to handle this level of care, that lack of training alone should result in immediate outside placement. I’ve worked in the worst schools you can imagine, the difference is the ENTIRE SCHOOL was trained for this. Rarely, VERY rarely, did student to student contact take place. Not because problems didn’t happen-they did multiple times per day- but because they trained us. Very well. Student to student contact is like the worst thing that can happen. You don’t just sit around and allow that to continue.

Teachers and parents saying this is just how it goes is absurd and borderline negligent. The adults need to make noise, lots of noise. Empower your children, give them an out. You don’t just tell them to sit there and wait to be victimized. If that were my child I’d tell them to say I’m not safe here I’ll be in the office and leave immediately. Every single time Larlo starts acting out or they feel unsafe. Let the school call me and complain about my child seeking refuge, I’m here for it.

I learned in public schools if there is enough disruption to the point of chaos for other students and staff changes get made. Every adult involved needs to be protecting these children, the ones exhibiting the problem behavior and others in the school. They need to be complaining and reporting this and requesting assessments where applicable and refusing to work without proper training. It’s not hard to be injured when students are like this and it happens very quickly and once it escalates it’s often difficult to deescalate. You’re placing the children and adults in danger if you’re passively doing nothing. This is unacceptable.

If you ever taught in FCPS or tried to raise an issue in FCPS, you'd know that the only thing they respond to is negative press from major outlets, or laws from Richmond. Anything less and they send you form email responses (if that) and ignore you. That goes for both teachers and parents, emails to Gatehouse-level staff and the school board. There are very rare exceptions, and the one I'm thinking of off the top of my head (Megan McLaughlin) retired from the SB already.

The lack of response doesn't go for admin and teachers at schools, in my experience. They really are trying. But above that, starting at the region principals? They really, really, really don't care.

If they were actually trying then that child would not have been able to touch the other students much less injure them.

As quoted PP indicated, there's a certain amount of training that goes into keeping students from hurting each other without hurting a student in turn. Can you imagine the hue and cry if a teacher accidentally injured a violent SPED student while trying to keep them from hurting someone? After all those restraint and seclusion articles in the past few years? It would be nightmarish for that teacher.

I’m familiar with restraint and seclusion, those types of incidents occur when the teachers aren’t trained. Which is exactly the problem with FCPS.

Yes. The current idea is that you remove the rest of the class. Therefore, there is no one for the child to hit or kick.

There is still the issue of causing harm to self or teachers in the room. There is zero excuse not to be trained if that is happening. Removing everyone else isn’t /shouldn’t be a long term solution, it’s what you do in the moment when you have no other immediate solution. However you also have to then go look at the situation and figure out a better plan, this isn’t it. No wonder people don’t want to work there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look email the teacher. The thing with the kid getting violent etc is that the kid more than likely has an IEP for learning disability plus emotional behavioral disorder. The parents want the kid mainstreamed but the kid needs services and are receiving them. There’s not much you can do besides request your child not be in the same class with that kid. At recess, it’s not fair game but what every parent says I don’t want my kid to have recess with the school wild child that’s unreasonable and unrealistic for all the kids. Likely what hopefully happens is after K and 1st the kid gets better social control of themselves or they end up at like Burke school. The thing is you can’t just shove kids into a program without clear support for why. Maybe he does need more support but for now they need to document to get him there and also to show the parents that the current learning environment is not the best one for the child. You gotta remember sometimes parents are their kids own worst enemies because they want to prevent their kid from being defined as different.

Idk why people say inmates run the asylum this is just how things work. It’s complicated but we can’t just assume because Jimmy walks out to recess one day and starts punching over kids because he wants to use the slide that Jimmy should be somewhere else. But idk this thread some people seem like we shouldn’t even wait to see if it happens like that. Oh that kids wild get him away from kid and to special place. But I think we all know that in the real world, there’s all sorts of people out there some with and without issues

This is hogwash. If the entire staff has not been trained then I’d argue the school isn’t even equipped to handle this level of care, that lack of training alone should result in immediate outside placement. I’ve worked in the worst schools you can imagine, the difference is the ENTIRE SCHOOL was trained for this. Rarely, VERY rarely, did student to student contact take place. Not because problems didn’t happen-they did multiple times per day- but because they trained us. Very well. Student to student contact is like the worst thing that can happen. You don’t just sit around and allow that to continue.

Teachers and parents saying this is just how it goes is absurd and borderline negligent. The adults need to make noise, lots of noise. Empower your children, give them an out. You don’t just tell them to sit there and wait to be victimized. If that were my child I’d tell them to say I’m not safe here I’ll be in the office and leave immediately. Every single time Larlo starts acting out or they feel unsafe. Let the school call me and complain about my child seeking refuge, I’m here for it.

I learned in public schools if there is enough disruption to the point of chaos for other students and staff changes get made. Every adult involved needs to be protecting these children, the ones exhibiting the problem behavior and others in the school. They need to be complaining and reporting this and requesting assessments where applicable and refusing to work without proper training. It’s not hard to be injured when students are like this and it happens very quickly and once it escalates it’s often difficult to deescalate. You’re placing the children and adults in danger if you’re passively doing nothing. This is unacceptable.

If you ever taught in FCPS or tried to raise an issue in FCPS, you'd know that the only thing they respond to is negative press from major outlets, or laws from Richmond. Anything less and they send you form email responses (if that) and ignore you. That goes for both teachers and parents, emails to Gatehouse-level staff and the school board. There are very rare exceptions, and the one I'm thinking of off the top of my head (Megan McLaughlin) retired from the SB already.

The lack of response doesn't go for admin and teachers at schools, in my experience. They really are trying. But above that, starting at the region principals? They really, really, really don't care.

If they were actually trying then that child would not have been able to touch the other students much less injure them.

As quoted PP indicated, there's a certain amount of training that goes into keeping students from hurting each other without hurting a student in turn. Can you imagine the hue and cry if a teacher accidentally injured a violent SPED student while trying to keep them from hurting someone? After all those restraint and seclusion articles in the past few years? It would be nightmarish for that teacher.

I’m familiar with restraint and seclusion, those types of incidents occur when the teachers aren’t trained. Which is exactly the problem with FCPS.

Yes. The current idea is that you remove the rest of the class. Therefore, there is no one for the child to hit or kick.

There is still the issue of causing harm to self or teachers in the room. There is zero excuse not to be trained if that is happening. Removing everyone else isn’t /shouldn’t be a long term solution, it’s what you do in the moment when you have no other immediate solution. However you also have to then go look at the situation and figure out a better plan, this isn’t it. No wonder people don’t want to work there.

I'm betting all these people who think "training" would fix the problem have never been in a classroom with this issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Look email the teacher. The thing with the kid getting violent etc is that the kid more than likely has an IEP for learning disability plus emotional behavioral disorder. The parents want the kid mainstreamed but the kid needs services and are receiving them. There’s not much you can do besides request your child not be in the same class with that kid. At recess, it’s not fair game but what every parent says I don’t want my kid to have recess with the school wild child that’s unreasonable and unrealistic for all the kids. Likely what hopefully happens is after K and 1st the kid gets better social control of themselves or they end up at like Burke school. The thing is you can’t just shove kids into a program without clear support for why. Maybe he does need more support but for now they need to document to get him there and also to show the parents that the current learning environment is not the best one for the child. You gotta remember sometimes parents are their kids own worst enemies because they want to prevent their kid from being defined as different.

Idk why people say inmates run the asylum this is just how things work. It’s complicated but we can’t just assume because Jimmy walks out to recess one day and starts punching over kids because he wants to use the slide that Jimmy should be somewhere else. But idk this thread some people seem like we shouldn’t even wait to see if it happens like that. Oh that kids wild get him away from kid and to special place. But I think we all know that in the real world, there’s all sorts of people out there some with and without issues

This is hogwash. If the entire staff has not been trained then I’d argue the school isn’t even equipped to handle this level of care, that lack of training alone should result in immediate outside placement. I’ve worked in the worst schools you can imagine, the difference is the ENTIRE SCHOOL was trained for this. Rarely, VERY rarely, did student to student contact take place. Not because problems didn’t happen-they did multiple times per day- but because they trained us. Very well. Student to student contact is like the worst thing that can happen. You don’t just sit around and allow that to continue.

Teachers and parents saying this is just how it goes is absurd and borderline negligent. The adults need to make noise, lots of noise. Empower your children, give them an out. You don’t just tell them to sit there and wait to be victimized. If that were my child I’d tell them to say I’m not safe here I’ll be in the office and leave immediately. Every single time Larlo starts acting out or they feel unsafe. Let the school call me and complain about my child seeking refuge, I’m here for it.

I learned in public schools if there is enough disruption to the point of chaos for other students and staff changes get made. Every adult involved needs to be protecting these children, the ones exhibiting the problem behavior and others in the school. They need to be complaining and reporting this and requesting assessments where applicable and refusing to work without proper training. It’s not hard to be injured when students are like this and it happens very quickly and once it escalates it’s often difficult to deescalate. You’re placing the children and adults in danger if you’re passively doing nothing. This is unacceptable.

If you ever taught in FCPS or tried to raise an issue in FCPS, you'd know that the only thing they respond to is negative press from major outlets, or laws from Richmond. Anything less and they send you form email responses (if that) and ignore you. That goes for both teachers and parents, emails to Gatehouse-level staff and the school board. There are very rare exceptions, and the one I'm thinking of off the top of my head (Megan McLaughlin) retired from the SB already.

The lack of response doesn't go for admin and teachers at schools, in my experience. They really are trying. But above that, starting at the region principals? They really, really, really don't care.

If they were actually trying then that child would not have been able to touch the other students much less injure them.

As quoted PP indicated, there's a certain amount of training that goes into keeping students from hurting each other without hurting a student in turn. Can you imagine the hue and cry if a teacher accidentally injured a violent SPED student while trying to keep them from hurting someone? After all those restraint and seclusion articles in the past few years? It would be nightmarish for that teacher.

I’m familiar with restraint and seclusion, those types of incidents occur when the teachers aren’t trained. Which is exactly the problem with FCPS.

Yes. The current idea is that you remove the rest of the class. Therefore, there is no one for the child to hit or kick.

There is still the issue of causing harm to self or teachers in the room. There is zero excuse not to be trained if that is happening. Removing everyone else isn’t /shouldn’t be a long term solution, it’s what you do in the moment when you have no other immediate solution. However you also have to then go look at the situation and figure out a better plan, this isn’t it. No wonder people don’t want to work there.

I'm betting all these people who think "training" would fix the problem have never been in a classroom with this issue.

I’m not suggesting training will “fix” the issues, clearly the issues extend beyond this. I’m stating that you cannot operate in this manner WITHOUT the training. It’s negligent, as without the training there’s a high risk of harm being done the child, other students, and faculty. No training = liability.

And yes I’ve worked in very “difficult” classrooms.

[Anonymous]

I'm surprised kids don't ever gang up on the troublemakers at recess and sort it out themselves.