Elementary School Misbehavior and Violence

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised kids don't ever gang up on the troublemakers at recess and sort it out themselves.

Because kids nowadays are generally kind and know the student probably has a neurodevelopmental disorder that they can’t control.

It’s terrific that kids are growing up kind. But most people in prison probably also have neurodevelopmental disorders they can’t control. Regardless of who is causing physical harm and why, we have to be able to prevent it in our schools.

In this case, that is partly why the para is there, yet they can’t stop all behaviors.

A paraprofessional educator in FCPS has to meet the following requirements

1. Be 18 years old, 21 is preferred but not required
2. Have a high school degree or a GED
3. Have 2 years work experience working with kids or 2 years of coursework in a related field
4. Complete training within 60 days of being hired focusing on individualized instruction and behavior management.

They are not specialists or specifically trained individuals who can help students. For the most part, they are there to try and help divert the child and that is about it.

And, how is this "training" going to prevent these outbursts? Prevent other kids being hurt?

That is the point, they are not trained to prevent the outbursts. They have no special qualifications. They are a body that is there in a lower paying job. They might be someone looking for work while their kid is in school or just trying to make ends meet but they are not specially trained individuals who know how to help the child.

I had a friend who took a Para job when her kids went back to school. She was there to run after the kid when he eloped and to remind him to stay on the school grounds. That was it. People think that the Paras are something that they are not. We don’t pay SPED teachers enough to keep them in the building. We don’t support them enough to let them do their jobs. We don’t pay the Paras enough or require specialized training.

The entire SPED program is overwhelmed because of the demands placed on it, underfunded because the demands keep growing and the numbers keep growing, and complained about because the problems keep multiplying. The 80% mainstream probably has less to do with helping the kids and more to do with not having the space or teachers to run SPED properly. Public schools have to serve every child and the vast majority of SPED kids are in the public school system.

Now toss in kids whose parents are not parenting so kids are out of control and schools that won’t discipline because they are afraid of lawsuits and we have a giant cluster on our hands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are we supposed to trust FCPS to teach children when they can’t do the basic minimum of keeping everyone safe?

Should we tie up the child with special needs? Restrict them to a 6x6 room? Not allow them to have recess?

So what is your solution? The child is attacking kids and teachers at recess. The child has an aide with them, so there is a known issue. Why can’t there be a consequence for the child's actions, like solo recess indoors. The idea that the child is allowed to continue to hurt other kids because they have an IEP is what angers people. Why is it ok for other kids to be hurt because another child has an issue?

Increase teacher to student ratios for kids who need this type of support. We’ll also need to increase salaries to entice the additional staff to take these specific jobs.

Or you can stop mainstreaming kids who are violent.

My kids have been in classrooms where, due to special programs, there were 4 or 5 adults in the room at all times, and at least 2 of those were paras. The kids all know which adults are assigned to which kids.

And to a PP's point, my kids were in AAP classes.

+100
This is such common sense you'd think it would be a no-brainer. Why should all of the other kids have to suffer due to the uncontrollable behavior of the few?

Because there are not enough alternative schooling options to remove the kids to. We don’t have the placements. They are expensive and we don’t want to pay for them. But the kids have to be in school because that is the law. The school system is broken because it has to serve everyone but it doesn’t have the ability to serve the margins well and a small percentage of those margins are disruptive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think parents need to write their lawmakers about IDEA and add them to modify so that violent and disruptive children get (1) the supports they need and (2) get consequences for their behavior. The new Republican crop of lawmakers are insensitive and cold enough that they'd surely change things to better meet the general population's needs at the expense of special ed kids.

It's certainly interesting the way you're insulting Republicans, while acknowledging that Republicans don't stand for the kind of idiocy we see in schools today (allowing one or two kids to run amok, ruining things for everyone else, with zero consequences). Republicans would be all for implementing consequences/discipline for troublemaking kids. And just because a kid is SPED, doesn't mean they have the right to disrupt class and hurt other kids.

DP
So hold the students to a higher standard than have for our elected leaders? A “Do as I say, not as I do” policy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think parents need to write their lawmakers about IDEA and add them to modify so that violent and disruptive children get (1) the supports they need and (2) get consequences for their behavior. The new Republican crop of lawmakers are insensitive and cold enough that they'd surely change things to better meet the general population's needs at the expense of special ed kids.

It's certainly interesting the way you're insulting Republicans, while acknowledging that Republicans don't stand for the kind of idiocy we see in schools today (allowing one or two kids to run amok, ruining things for everyone else, with zero consequences). Republicans would be all for implementing consequences/discipline for troublemaking kids. And just because a kid is SPED, doesn't mean they have the right to disrupt class and hurt other kids.

DP
So hold the students to a higher standard than have for our elected leaders? A “Do as I say, not as I do” policy.

We already do this for our elected leaders all the time. For ex: look at every low-level 20-something who leaked or spilled classified information versus every cabinet-level official or elected leader who hoarded it with the intent to publish it (of both parties).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are we supposed to trust FCPS to teach children when they can’t do the basic minimum of keeping everyone safe?

Should we tie up the child with special needs? Restrict them to a 6x6 room? Not allow them to have recess?

So what is your solution? The child is attacking kids and teachers at recess. The child has an aide with them, so there is a known issue. Why can’t there be a consequence for the child's actions, like solo recess indoors. The idea that the child is allowed to continue to hurt other kids because they have an IEP is what angers people. Why is it ok for other kids to be hurt because another child has an issue?

Increase teacher to student ratios for kids who need this type of support. We’ll also need to increase salaries to entice the additional staff to take these specific jobs.

Or you can stop mainstreaming kids who are violent.

My kids have been in classrooms where, due to special programs, there were 4 or 5 adults in the room at all times, and at least 2 of those were paras. The kids all know which adults are assigned to which kids.

And to a PP's point, my kids were in AAP classes.

Your solution still involves a shit ton of money. Again, that’s why it’s not happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are we supposed to trust FCPS to teach children when they can’t do the basic minimum of keeping everyone safe?

Should we tie up the child with special needs? Restrict them to a 6x6 room? Not allow them to have recess?

So what is your solution? The child is attacking kids and teachers at recess. The child has an aide with them, so there is a known issue. Why can’t there be a consequence for the child's actions, like solo recess indoors. The idea that the child is allowed to continue to hurt other kids because they have an IEP is what angers people. Why is it ok for other kids to be hurt because another child has an issue?

Increase teacher to student ratios for kids who need this type of support. We’ll also need to increase salaries to entice the additional staff to take these specific jobs.

Or you can stop mainstreaming kids who are violent.

My kids have been in classrooms where, due to special programs, there were 4 or 5 adults in the room at all times, and at least 2 of those were paras. The kids all know which adults are assigned to which kids.

And to a PP's point, my kids were in AAP classes.

+100
This is such common sense you'd think it would be a no-brainer. Why should all of the other kids have to suffer due to the uncontrollable behavior of the few?

All you’ve done is think of an idea, you didn’t think through the next 3 steps where the problems start to occur. So in fact, it is not a no-brainer.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone studied why we have such an increase in the SPED population in the past 10-20 years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone studied why we have such an increase in the SPED population in the past 10-20 years?

More students are getting diagnosed. Students always had autism, ADHD, dyslexia, etc - but they now have diagnoses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm surprised kids don't ever gang up on the troublemakers at recess and sort it out themselves.

Because kids nowadays are generally kind and know the student probably has a neurodevelopmental disorder that they can’t control.

It’s terrific that kids are growing up kind. But most people in prison probably also have neurodevelopmental disorders they can’t control. Regardless of who is causing physical harm and why, we have to be able to prevent it in our schools.

In this case, that is partly why the para is there, yet they can’t stop all behaviors.

A paraprofessional educator in FCPS has to meet the following requirements

1. Be 18 years old, 21 is preferred but not required
2. Have a high school degree or a GED
3. Have 2 years work experience working with kids or 2 years of coursework in a related field
4. Complete training within 60 days of being hired focusing on individualized instruction and behavior management.

They are not specialists or specifically trained individuals who can help students. For the most part, they are there to try and help divert the child and that is about it.

And, how is this "training" going to prevent these outbursts? Prevent other kids being hurt?

That is the point, they are not trained to prevent the outbursts. They have no special qualifications. They are a body that is there in a lower paying job. They might be someone looking for work while their kid is in school or just trying to make ends meet but they are not specially trained individuals who know how to help the child.

I had a friend who took a Para job when her kids went back to school. She was there to run after the kid when he eloped and to remind him to stay on the school grounds. That was it. People think that the Paras are something that they are not. We don’t pay SPED teachers enough to keep them in the building. We don’t support them enough to let them do their jobs. We don’t pay the Paras enough or require specialized training.

The entire SPED program is overwhelmed because of the demands placed on it, underfunded because the demands keep growing and the numbers keep growing, and complained about because the problems keep multiplying. The 80% mainstream probably has less to do with helping the kids and more to do with not having the space or teachers to run SPED properly. Public schools have to serve every child and the vast majority of SPED kids are in the public school system.

Now toss in kids whose parents are not parenting so kids are out of control and schools that won’t discipline because they are afraid of lawsuits and we have a giant cluster on our hands.

+100
Well said. When my kids were in elementary, each of them had several very disruptive SPED kids mainstreamed into their classes. The distractions and outbursts were constant. I finally asked admin about this and they said they expected the other kids to have empathy and understanding. Well, sure - but what happens when "the other kids" aren't learning a thing due to the chaotic environment? I guess that's ok - as long as they're "empathetic and understanding".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are we supposed to trust FCPS to teach children when they can’t do the basic minimum of keeping everyone safe?

Should we tie up the child with special needs? Restrict them to a 6x6 room? Not allow them to have recess?

So what is your solution? The child is attacking kids and teachers at recess. The child has an aide with them, so there is a known issue. Why can’t there be a consequence for the child's actions, like solo recess indoors. The idea that the child is allowed to continue to hurt other kids because they have an IEP is what angers people. Why is it ok for other kids to be hurt because another child has an issue?

Increase teacher to student ratios for kids who need this type of support. We’ll also need to increase salaries to entice the additional staff to take these specific jobs.

Or you can stop mainstreaming kids who are violent.

My kids have been in classrooms where, due to special programs, there were 4 or 5 adults in the room at all times, and at least 2 of those were paras. The kids all know which adults are assigned to which kids.

And to a PP's point, my kids were in AAP classes.

+100
This is such common sense you'd think it would be a no-brainer. Why should all of the other kids have to suffer due to the uncontrollable behavior of the few?

All you’ve done is think of an idea, you didn’t think through the next 3 steps where the problems start to occur. So in fact, it is not a no-brainer.

Why don't you walk us through the "next 3 steps" since you seem to be the authority here. We'll wait.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think parents need to write their lawmakers about IDEA and add them to modify so that violent and disruptive children get (1) the supports they need and (2) get consequences for their behavior. The new Republican crop of lawmakers are insensitive and cold enough that they'd surely change things to better meet the general population's needs at the expense of special ed kids.

It's certainly interesting the way you're insulting Republicans, while acknowledging that Republicans don't stand for the kind of idiocy we see in schools today (allowing one or two kids to run amok, ruining things for everyone else, with zero consequences). Republicans would be all for implementing consequences/discipline for troublemaking kids. And just because a kid is SPED, doesn't mean they have the right to disrupt class and hurt other kids.

DP
So hold the students to a higher standard than have for our elected leaders? A “Do as I say, not as I do” policy.

Really? This is what you're going with? Grow the hell up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How are we supposed to trust FCPS to teach children when they can’t do the basic minimum of keeping everyone safe?

Should we tie up the child with special needs? Restrict them to a 6x6 room? Not allow them to have recess?

So what is your solution? The child is attacking kids and teachers at recess. The child has an aide with them, so there is a known issue. Why can’t there be a consequence for the child's actions, like solo recess indoors. The idea that the child is allowed to continue to hurt other kids because they have an IEP is what angers people. Why is it ok for other kids to be hurt because another child has an issue?

Increase teacher to student ratios for kids who need this type of support. We’ll also need to increase salaries to entice the additional staff to take these specific jobs.

Or you can stop mainstreaming kids who are violent.

My kids have been in classrooms where, due to special programs, there were 4 or 5 adults in the room at all times, and at least 2 of those were paras. The kids all know which adults are assigned to which kids.

And to a PP's point, my kids were in AAP classes.

+100
This is such common sense you'd think it would be a no-brainer. Why should all of the other kids have to suffer due to the uncontrollable behavior of the few?

All you’ve done is think of an idea, you didn’t think through the next 3 steps where the problems start to occur. So in fact, it is not a no-brainer.

Why don't you walk us through the "next 3 steps" since you seem to be the authority here. We'll wait.

1. Find buildings
2. Find staff
3. Find money

[Anonymous]

Sadly, it was behavior like this in my child’s first grade FCPS classroom that led us to pull DC out the next year and go private. I and my husband were products of FCPS (and one of the rougher pyramids, no less), and we assumed DC would follow our footsteps. Behavior is out of control these days.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sadly, it was behavior like this in my child’s first grade FCPS classroom that led us to pull DC out the next year and go private. I and my husband were products of FCPS (and one of the rougher pyramids, no less), and we assumed DC would follow our footsteps. Behavior is out of control these days.

Largely in part to bad parenting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think parents need to write their lawmakers about IDEA and add them to modify so that violent and disruptive children get (1) the supports they need and (2) get consequences for their behavior. The new Republican crop of lawmakers are insensitive and cold enough that they'd surely change things to better meet the general population's needs at the expense of special ed kids.

It's certainly interesting the way you're insulting Republicans, while acknowledging that Republicans don't stand for the kind of idiocy we see in schools today (allowing one or two kids to run amok, ruining things for everyone else, with zero consequences). Republicans would be all for implementing consequences/discipline for troublemaking kids. And just because a kid is SPED, doesn't mean they have the right to disrupt class and hurt other kids.

DP
So hold the students to a higher standard than have for our elected leaders? A “Do as I say, not as I do” policy.

Really? This is what you're going with? Grow the hell up.

Im all for consequences, but I’m not the one who played the, “Republicans are all for consequences and disciplining troublemakers” card. Any credence behind that claim went out the window a while ago.