I feel bad for Europeans

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Europeans feel bad for americans. Most of them think the us is a third world country these days.

Grass is always greener.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. Repeating for the people who think they are discovering something novel. The US is a terrible place to be poor but ok if you are rich (though that is getting to be debatable). Europe is a good place to be if you are middle income or poor. The rich try to shelter.

Europe still sucks to be poor, it’s just that more people are poor so you don’t feel as bad because everyone else is in the same boat. And it’s harder to become not poor. Reduced class mobility, more entrenched aristocratic wealth over there. They tax labor like crazy but barely touch capital generated income.

Estonia has more social mobility than the US.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/social-mobility-by-country

Some European countries are lower than the US, but most are well above it.

I have a very difficult time believing social mobility in the UK is at or more than in the US - at least socially, once you are working class (or whatever) You are ALWAYS that class.

Have you ever traveled to poor parts of the US?

There is zero social mobility here. Visit Appalachia or the Deep South and then try to say that this is a land of opportunity with a straight face.

[Anonymous]

Europeans feel about Americans' work ethic the way Americans feel about Chinese in terms of just slogging for nothing but glory

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised to learn most Western Europeans makes well under 50k EUR per year even with high levels of education. Is it worth it to make 1/5 an American for the same job just for some free healthcare (which we get at our jobs anyway) and education?

How is Europe supposedly more egalitarian than the US when the only way to become well off is to inherit money? You can be full of drive and ambition over there and still live the same life as a cashier because everyone is forced into the same mediocre existence.

In the US the only people I know who got ahead have massive help from their parents. A college education costs in the tens to hundreds of thousands and is the bare minimum to get a decent job. Then there’s a housing crisis, so many people get down payment help. Generational wealth is the only way UMC Americans can stay that way.

Without a massive “inheritance” it’s pretty much impossible for anyone to achieve upward mobility in the United States.

The difference is that Americans pretend that they “earned” everything since the hundreds of thousands in inheritance is spread out as gifts for education and housing. It’s such a delusional mindset.

Whereas in Europe, universities take the highest ranked students. Nobody cares about college sports because there are private clubs to cultivate professional athletes. European Universities don’t turn away a top engineering student to make space for a mediocre rich kid with a nice tennis swing (who has zero chance of playing professionally.)

If anything, the US has been rewarding mediocrity for the past 50 years and we’re finally starting to reap what we sow.

In fairness, most European universities accept everyone that meets the thresholds. They are large, public universities that don’t believe a low acceptance rate is a sign of success.

On the flip side, they expect you to pull your weight and don’t try to keep you as a student if you are failing.

[Anonymous]

I have European friends with white collar jobs and similar education levels, and they all have a much lower standard of living than my friends here. I think it’s strange when posters on here suggest having a family and dual income in Europe is some cakewalk. It seems worse to me over there because they can’t outsource like we can.

Also the parental leaves are generous but they have to be given the lower wages. I don’t want to be rude to my friends but it’s challenging to not tell them I could have unlimited parental leave because I’m married and my spouse earns 4-5x what theirs does. Of course they need government welfare to spend time with their baby whereas the average American woman doesn’t. Because if the stronger economy and higher wages the government here doesn’t need to provide parental leave to women.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Europeans get significantly more vacation days and have better work life balance. France offers 7 weeks of paid vacation. The average 40-hour-per-week employee in the U.S. is working 400 more hours annually — the equivalent of 10 more weeks — than employees in Germany. But it is very American of you to feel bad for them because they don’t have a McMansion while you take your sad 3 weeks of vacation.

But an American who earns well can retire way earlier because they don’t rely on a pension system where the age gets pushed further and further back. High earners can retire by their 30’s if they make the right moves and invest aggressively.

What America do you live in? I know many successful high earners and none have retired in their 30s nor do they believe they can and have financial stability into old age.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have European friends with white collar jobs and similar education levels, and they all have a much lower standard of living than my friends here. I think it’s strange when posters on here suggest having a family and dual income in Europe is some cakewalk. It seems worse to me over there because they can’t outsource like we can.

Also the parental leaves are generous but they have to be given the lower wages. I don’t want to be rude to my friends but it’s challenging to not tell them I could have unlimited parental leave because I’m married and my spouse earns 4-5x what theirs does. Of course they need government welfare to spend time with their baby whereas the average American woman doesn’t. Because if the stronger economy and higher wages the government here doesn’t need to provide parental leave to women.

The United States has the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world.

Let that sink in. American women are treated as beasts of burden and forced back to work 6 — 12 weeks after giving birth. Sure, there’s a tiny wealthy minority like yourself who are doing great. But for the most part American women are not okay. They do not have the choice to take maternity leave and often pay with their lives. If you didn’t know, the United States also has the highest maternal death rates in the developed world.

American women are not okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised to learn most Western Europeans makes well under 50k EUR per year even with high levels of education. Is it worth it to make 1/5 an American for the same job just for some free healthcare (which we get at our jobs anyway) and education?

How is Europe supposedly more egalitarian than the US when the only way to become well off is to inherit money? You can be full of drive and ambition over there and still live the same life as a cashier because everyone is forced into the same mediocre existence.

In the US the only people I know who got ahead have massive help from their parents. A college education costs in the tens to hundreds of thousands and is the bare minimum to get a decent job. Then there’s a housing crisis, so many people get down payment help. Generational wealth is the only way UMC Americans can stay that way.

Without a massive “inheritance” it’s pretty much impossible for anyone to achieve upward mobility in the United States.

The difference is that Americans pretend that they “earned” everything since the hundreds of thousands in inheritance is spread out as gifts for education and housing. It’s such a delusional mindset.

Whereas in Europe, universities take the highest ranked students. Nobody cares about college sports because there are private clubs to cultivate professional athletes. European Universities don’t turn away a top engineering student to make space for a mediocre rich kid with a nice tennis swing (who has zero chance of playing professionally.)

If anything, the US has been rewarding mediocrity for the past 50 years and we’re finally starting to reap what we sow.

I read the bolded first and quickly and thought you were going to support the opposite - that the US is exceptional.

What you wrote isn’t supported by really any quantitative measures especially not GDP and the number of technologies and innovation from this country. We have the strongest military in the world and the entire planet is relying on our technology to conduct business.

I’d argue European universities don’t offer sports because they can’t afford to. There is limited funding and college is way more basic than here. Ignoring this, the American university system is excellent and highly regarded.

Your post makes me sad and I think you’re brainwashed. There are many terrible things about our country and ways we need to improve, but there are also some ways we are exceptional.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have European friends with white collar jobs and similar education levels, and they all have a much lower standard of living than my friends here. I think it’s strange when posters on here suggest having a family and dual income in Europe is some cakewalk. It seems worse to me over there because they can’t outsource like we can.

Also the parental leaves are generous but they have to be given the lower wages. I don’t want to be rude to my friends but it’s challenging to not tell them I could have unlimited parental leave because I’m married and my spouse earns 4-5x what theirs does. Of course they need government welfare to spend time with their baby whereas the average American woman doesn’t. Because if the stronger economy and higher wages the government here doesn’t need to provide parental leave to women.

You come to a very strange conclusion…only the top 3% income earners in the US are in the position you describe.

Most US parents are dual-income and paying a ton for childcare or one parent doesn’t make enough for it to make financial sense to pay for childcare…but their HHI is only like $50k.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised to learn most Western Europeans makes well under 50k EUR per year even with high levels of education. Is it worth it to make 1/5 an American for the same job just for some free healthcare (which we get at our jobs anyway) and education?

How is Europe supposedly more egalitarian than the US when the only way to become well off is to inherit money? You can be full of drive and ambition over there and still live the same life as a cashier because everyone is forced into the same mediocre existence.

In the US the only people I know who got ahead have massive help from their parents. A college education costs in the tens to hundreds of thousands and is the bare minimum to get a decent job. Then there’s a housing crisis, so many people get down payment help. Generational wealth is the only way UMC Americans can stay that way.

Without a massive “inheritance” it’s pretty much impossible for anyone to achieve upward mobility in the United States.

The difference is that Americans pretend that they “earned” everything since the hundreds of thousands in inheritance is spread out as gifts for education and housing. It’s such a delusional mindset.

Whereas in Europe, universities take the highest ranked students. Nobody cares about college sports because there are private clubs to cultivate professional athletes. European Universities don’t turn away a top engineering student to make space for a mediocre rich kid with a nice tennis swing (who has zero chance of playing professionally.)

If anything, the US has been rewarding mediocrity for the past 50 years and we’re finally starting to reap what we sow.

I read the bolded first and quickly and thought you were going to support the opposite - that the US is exceptional.

What you wrote isn’t supported by really any quantitative measures especially not GDP and the number of technologies and innovation from this country. We have the strongest military in the world and the entire planet is relying on our technology to conduct business.

I’d argue European universities don’t offer sports because they can’t afford to. There is limited funding and college is way more basic than here. Ignoring this, the American university system is excellent and highly regarded.

Your post makes me sad and I think you’re brainwashed. There are many terrible things about our country and ways we need to improve, but there are also some ways we are exceptional.

They don’t offer sports because there is a far more extensive minor league system in every major European sport (soccer, hockey, basketball) and kids are sent to pro academies to train starting as young as 5. The best athletes never attend college.

It has nothing to do with universities not having the money to do it.

[Anonymous]

I have relatives in both northern and Southern Europe and none of them are complaining about their standard of living, even the ones whose incomes your would consider extremely low.

If you measure success or a good standard of living by large homes, large cars, and large portion sizes when eating out, then yes, Europeans are "poorer." But most Europeans don't have 4-5 bedroom houses filled with endless stuff from Costco and Target "runs" or big-ass fuel-guzzling cars. They take (much) longer vacations, can retire earlier in some countries, don't go into debt for higher education, and don't have to declare bankruptcy due to medical debt. They all take vacations, even those with lower incomes, and have full lives--except with a lot less of the store-bought crap that Americans spend their lives working for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have European friends with white collar jobs and similar education levels, and they all have a much lower standard of living than my friends here. I think it’s strange when posters on here suggest having a family and dual income in Europe is some cakewalk. It seems worse to me over there because they can’t outsource like we can.

Also the parental leaves are generous but they have to be given the lower wages. I don’t want to be rude to my friends but it’s challenging to not tell them I could have unlimited parental leave because I’m married and my spouse earns 4-5x what theirs does. Of course they need government welfare to spend time with their baby whereas the average American woman doesn’t. Because if the stronger economy and higher wages the government here doesn’t need to provide parental leave to women.

The United States has the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world.

Let that sink in. American women are treated as beasts of burden and forced back to work 6 — 12 weeks after giving birth. Sure, there’s a tiny wealthy minority like yourself who are doing great. But for the most part American women are not okay. They do not have the choice to take maternity leave and often pay with their lives. If you didn’t know, the United States also has the highest maternal death rates in the developed world.

American women are not okay.

You obviously feel strongly about what you wrote. Your comment is practically hysterical. Despite your claims, American women are having more babies than Europeans. It’s not a tiny wealthy minority.

My guess is you live in a blue urban liberal bubble and don’t get out there often. Your beliefs are shaped by wealthy liberals and the poor minorities living around you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have European friends with white collar jobs and similar education levels, and they all have a much lower standard of living than my friends here. I think it’s strange when posters on here suggest having a family and dual income in Europe is some cakewalk. It seems worse to me over there because they can’t outsource like we can.

Also the parental leaves are generous but they have to be given the lower wages. I don’t want to be rude to my friends but it’s challenging to not tell them I could have unlimited parental leave because I’m married and my spouse earns 4-5x what theirs does. Of course they need government welfare to spend time with their baby whereas the average American woman doesn’t. Because if the stronger economy and higher wages the government here doesn’t need to provide parental leave to women.

You come to a very strange conclusion…only the top 3% income earners in the US are in the position you describe.

Most US parents are dual-income and paying a ton for childcare or one parent doesn’t make enough for it to make financial sense to pay for childcare…but their HHI is only like $50k.

Look all I know is how my friends overseas live and how my friends here live. I simply don’t think it’s any better there.

[Anonymous]

This thread is really reinvigorating my dream of retiring in Europe. On pensions alone, we'll have 100k US in income, plus investments and 401ks (currently around 1m, hopefully closer to 3m by the time we retire). It sounds like we could live a very comfortable middle class lifestyle there while also paying for some extra costs of being an ex pat. If plenty of professionals there only make 50k, this sounds really feasible!

It has long been our dream to retire to a walkable, dense but also safe and quiet neighborhood where we could live without a car. This is so hard to find in the US unless you have a lot of money. But there are lots of European cities where we could do this for a lot less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have European friends with white collar jobs and similar education levels, and they all have a much lower standard of living than my friends here. I think it’s strange when posters on here suggest having a family and dual income in Europe is some cakewalk. It seems worse to me over there because they can’t outsource like we can.

Also the parental leaves are generous but they have to be given the lower wages. I don’t want to be rude to my friends but it’s challenging to not tell them I could have unlimited parental leave because I’m married and my spouse earns 4-5x what theirs does. Of course they need government welfare to spend time with their baby whereas the average American woman doesn’t. Because if the stronger economy and higher wages the government here doesn’t need to provide parental leave to women.

The United States has the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world.

Let that sink in. American women are treated as beasts of burden and forced back to work 6 — 12 weeks after giving birth. Sure, there’s a tiny wealthy minority like yourself who are doing great. But for the most part American women are not okay. They do not have the choice to take maternity leave and often pay with their lives. If you didn’t know, the United States also has the highest maternal death rates in the developed world.

American women are not okay.

You obviously feel strongly about what you wrote. Your comment is practically hysterical. Despite your claims, American women are having more babies than Europeans. It’s not a tiny wealthy minority.

My guess is you live in a blue urban liberal bubble and don’t get out there often. Your beliefs are shaped by wealthy liberals and the poor minorities living around you.

The US birthrate is now 1.6 vs Europe at 1.4…France is actually around 1.8, but they are an outlier.

Nobody is at replacement value.