I feel bad for Europeans

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You obviously feel strongly about what you wrote. Your comment is practically hysterical. Despite your claims, American women are having more babies than Europeans. It’s not a tiny wealthy minority.

My guess is you live in a blue urban liberal bubble and don’t get out there often. Your beliefs are shaped by wealthy liberals and the poor minorities living around you.

I'm not PP, but are you disputing that the U.S. has the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world?

I think if you remove one minority group with terrible health, high obesity rates, low education and high out of wedlock births then the situation in America looks very different.
It’s tragic but simply doesn’t apply to your average white woman who graduated college and got married before having kids.

It actually does. A friend of mine from college (Ivy, natch) died in childbirth at 32. Don’t think it can’t happen to people like you.

I posted the stats that are ONLY for non-Hispanic white women (since the posters here seem very convinced that only minorities have bad outcomes.) The infant mortality rate for white women in the United States is 4.5 which is REALLY high. Spain, Portugal, Ireland, France, etc. basically everywhere in Europe is A LOT better.

The brainwashing one has to undertake to convince themselves to defend a system that literally results in the death of their own children is insane.

[Anonymous]

The irony in this post. I feel bad for Americans, Trump is acting like a poor person, which is going to hurt the US bigly. We act stingy and ungrateful and are cutting funds that actually brought us goodwill, and we all know goodwill brings more $$.

Nobody likes to negotiate with an angry, petty man who’s paranoid that people are fleecing him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is forced into mediocre existence. People just don't care about material things like they do here.They don't produce as much waste a much as Americans. Perhaps this is your measure of good life. Add $10k of crap Americans buy a year, and health, property taxes, education to that $50k.
It never crossed my mind in EU that I will be homeless or can't afford to go to the doctors. If this were in the back of my mind all the time, sure I want to become well off. This is not a worry in EU.
The ones who have the drive, do get rich. Look at the unicorns per capita for Estonia. The education level for the poor is so much better than in US (see Pisa 2022). If any, the poor are forced and stay in poverty in US because of their education level.
Don't confuse not wanting to be uber rich with being held back. Europeans can invest in the markets/real estate just like anyone else. It's just not as important as it is here.
It actually seems more important to Eastern Europeans as we remember not being able to do so. But our kids are getting 'soft' as the need for extra things or money is not there. Experiences yes, but not things. They definitely travel more than people in US.
I'm from EE, but living here. I talk about money and the need to get rich more than my friends back at home. They need me to shut up and just enjoy the party.
They have access to American stock market and their own markets. They have the 20 euros a day to throw into it to retire early. They'd rather enjoy it, because they already live as if they are semi-retired.

Europeans don't consume "10k of crap a year" because they can't afford to. It's that simple, they're not more altruistic.

There's plenty of homeless people. Not sure why you're implying this. Most if not all are people with clear substance or mental problems. Which is also true for homeless people in the US too... look around DC, these aren't people temporarily down on their luck. We also have plenty of Section 8 subsidized housing. We can make this a battle of stats, but I find it weird people are trying to place Europeans on some kind of higher moral plane, which makes no sense to anyone who's actually lived in Europe and knows 1) they're just as materialistic, 2) they make less money, 3) they have plenty of issues of their own, 4) each country is different so what works in Austria doesn't mean it's the case in the UK (which has massive housing shortages and affordability issues, for example, far outstripping the US).

This really isn’t true. A good friend is a principal at a PE group in Germany that owns consumer products companies. He makes millions.

He commented to me that it’s very odd analyzing acquisitions in the US because the average person buys two or three of something when the average European will own only one no matter their income. His company specializes in high end consumer products, so it’s not looking at super mass market.

As an example, at one point they owned (maybe still do) one of the high end European stroller companies. The average European that can afford it, owns one of these (including himself…and absent having twins), while the average for an American was like 2.5. Again, they account for number of kids, twins etc…this is just Americans having a different consumer view on items.

This guys could afford to buy as much crap as he wants, but he says it’s a huge cultural difference in consumerism. He only owns one car even though he could own 10 if he wanted…but he lives in Frankfurt and has no need for more than one.

This is so true and a great observation. Americans do this with many things. It's common for American households to have 2 or 3 TVs, for instance. For a family to have several iPads. For an individual to have multiple computers. Americans also tend to have much larger wardrobes (though the quality is lower overall and things have to be replaced more frequently).

Because most Europeans live in apartments or small rowhomes, there is a strong reason not to accumulate too much stuff. Also most Europeans live in or near cities with very good public transit, and thus can avoid owning a car or may only own one family car (instead of multiple).

Ask yourself how much you could live on if:

1) You did not need to own a car
2) You lived in a home that was less than 1500 sq ft
3) You did not need to pay insurance premiums or have any out of pocket healthcare costs
4) You didn't have to pay for college, for yourself or your children
5) You were guaranteed a public pension in retirement

It's a more sustainable lifestyle. You can get by on far less without sacrificing quality of life. In fact quality of life may increase because you walk or bike more, you get more time off from work and actually use it, and you can spend any discretionary income on entertainment, travel, food, and other positive experiences, because you don't have to save every last penny for old age or your kid's education.

[Anonymous]

We flew from Amsterdam to Bucharest Romania today. About 70% of our flight were men ages 30 to 50.

The gentleman that sat next to me, works on an offshore wind tower. He his crew on the offshore wind tower. He commutes from Bucharest to Amsterdam and works five weeks on then five weeks off.

In the past, he has worked contracts in Brazil and also Azerbaijan.

The other men on our plane seem to be working jobs in Western Europe, like truck, drivers or construction and commuting from Bucharest.

It is common for eastern European men to work blue-collar jobs in western Europe in order to be able to support their families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is forced into mediocre existence. People just don't care about material things like they do here.They don't produce as much waste a much as Americans. Perhaps this is your measure of good life. Add $10k of crap Americans buy a year, and health, property taxes, education to that $50k.
It never crossed my mind in EU that I will be homeless or can't afford to go to the doctors. If this were in the back of my mind all the time, sure I want to become well off. This is not a worry in EU.
The ones who have the drive, do get rich. Look at the unicorns per capita for Estonia. The education level for the poor is so much better than in US (see Pisa 2022). If any, the poor are forced and stay in poverty in US because of their education level.
Don't confuse not wanting to be uber rich with being held back. Europeans can invest in the markets/real estate just like anyone else. It's just not as important as it is here.
It actually seems more important to Eastern Europeans as we remember not being able to do so. But our kids are getting 'soft' as the need for extra things or money is not there. Experiences yes, but not things. They definitely travel more than people in US.
I'm from EE, but living here. I talk about money and the need to get rich more than my friends back at home. They need me to shut up and just enjoy the party.
They have access to American stock market and their own markets. They have the 20 euros a day to throw into it to retire early. They'd rather enjoy it, because they already live as if they are semi-retired.

I was shocked at the luxury stores in the Amsterdam airport. Europeans are clearly highly materialistic.. I’ve never seen Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Baccarat, and Hermes etc. stores in any American airports.

[Anonymous]

Italians are a lot less mobile than Americans. They frequently rent the same apartment for decades. They own less clothing, but shop for quality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is forced into mediocre existence. People just don't care about material things like they do here.They don't produce as much waste a much as Americans. Perhaps this is your measure of good life. Add $10k of crap Americans buy a year, and health, property taxes, education to that $50k.
It never crossed my mind in EU that I will be homeless or can't afford to go to the doctors. If this were in the back of my mind all the time, sure I want to become well off. This is not a worry in EU.
The ones who have the drive, do get rich. Look at the unicorns per capita for Estonia. The education level for the poor is so much better than in US (see Pisa 2022). If any, the poor are forced and stay in poverty in US because of their education level.
Don't confuse not wanting to be uber rich with being held back. Europeans can invest in the markets/real estate just like anyone else. It's just not as important as it is here.
It actually seems more important to Eastern Europeans as we remember not being able to do so. But our kids are getting 'soft' as the need for extra things or money is not there. Experiences yes, but not things. They definitely travel more than people in US.
I'm from EE, but living here. I talk about money and the need to get rich more than my friends back at home. They need me to shut up and just enjoy the party.
They have access to American stock market and their own markets. They have the 20 euros a day to throw into it to retire early. They'd rather enjoy it, because they already live as if they are semi-retired.

Europeans don't consume "10k of crap a year" because they can't afford to. It's that simple, they're not more altruistic.

There's plenty of homeless people. Not sure why you're implying this. Most if not all are people with clear substance or mental problems. Which is also true for homeless people in the US too... look around DC, these aren't people temporarily down on their luck. We also have plenty of Section 8 subsidized housing. We can make this a battle of stats, but I find it weird people are trying to place Europeans on some kind of higher moral plane, which makes no sense to anyone who's actually lived in Europe and knows 1) they're just as materialistic, 2) they make less money, 3) they have plenty of issues of their own, 4) each country is different so what works in Austria doesn't mean it's the case in the UK (which has massive housing shortages and affordability issues, for example, far outstripping the US).

This really isn’t true. A good friend is a principal at a PE group in Germany that owns consumer products companies. He makes millions.

He commented to me that it’s very odd analyzing acquisitions in the US because the average person buys two or three of something when the average European will own only one no matter their income. His company specializes in high end consumer products, so it’s not looking at super mass market.

As an example, at one point they owned (maybe still do) one of the high end European stroller companies. The average European that can afford it, owns one of these (including himself…and absent having twins), while the average for an American was like 2.5. Again, they account for number of kids, twins etc…this is just Americans having a different consumer view on items.

This guys could afford to buy as much crap as he wants, but he says it’s a huge cultural difference in consumerism. He only owns one car even though he could own 10 if he wanted…but he lives in Frankfurt and has no need for more than one.

Anecdotal. Irrelevant. "I claim this online without any data to back me up."

I can match your anecdote with any anecdote from the US where we do have frugal altruistic millionaires too. I don't care about "friends" who happen to live in Europe. I've actually lived in Europe, both in the UK and Germany. The idea people are deliberately less materialistic across society as opposed to a particular individual or a particular group of people is, frankly, quite bizarre. And anyone who's spent time on the high streets and downtown shopping areas of any city and town in Europe knows how silly this is! Most people are limited by two things: income and space. Americans spend more because we can, we have the income and the space.

It can mean Europeans face a somewhat different basket of goods, allowing them to do things like spend more on vacations because they may get more vacation time and they have access to a vacation based economy that makes it affordable and feasible to spend a few weeks at an all inclusive hotel along the Mediterranean somewhere. On the other hand, Europeans in most of the major cities face issues over housing affordability (often even worse because of lower incomes) and scarcity of housing supply. Most Europeans live in far less salubrious or interesting areas than those typically visited by American tourists.

The problem is you didn't read the post. It's not an anecdote on how my one friend spends, but rather how a major global PE company analyzes (Permira if you care) consumer products companies and commits real money to buying them. They have to accept that an American consumer will purchase a $1000 stroller for home and one they will just leave in the car because why deal with the hassle of folding it up and putting the one stroller in the trunk...which is a foreign concept to most Europeans even at same levels of income and wealth. The spending profiles that they are looking at across entire countries at similar incomes and wealth are very different between Europeans and Americans.

What's bizarre is for you to make your ridiculous claims based on absolutely nothing other than people walking down high streets in European cities...which also happen to be the highest tourist areas of these cities as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is forced into mediocre existence. People just don't care about material things like they do here.They don't produce as much waste a much as Americans. Perhaps this is your measure of good life. Add $10k of crap Americans buy a year, and health, property taxes, education to that $50k.
It never crossed my mind in EU that I will be homeless or can't afford to go to the doctors. If this were in the back of my mind all the time, sure I want to become well off. This is not a worry in EU.
The ones who have the drive, do get rich. Look at the unicorns per capita for Estonia. The education level for the poor is so much better than in US (see Pisa 2022). If any, the poor are forced and stay in poverty in US because of their education level.
Don't confuse not wanting to be uber rich with being held back. Europeans can invest in the markets/real estate just like anyone else. It's just not as important as it is here.
It actually seems more important to Eastern Europeans as we remember not being able to do so. But our kids are getting 'soft' as the need for extra things or money is not there. Experiences yes, but not things. They definitely travel more than people in US.
I'm from EE, but living here. I talk about money and the need to get rich more than my friends back at home. They need me to shut up and just enjoy the party.
They have access to American stock market and their own markets. They have the 20 euros a day to throw into it to retire early. They'd rather enjoy it, because they already live as if they are semi-retired.

I was shocked at the luxury stores in the Amsterdam airport. Europeans are clearly highly materialistic.. I’ve never seen Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Baccarat, and Hermes etc. stores in any American airports.

Amsterdam is a major connecting airport in Europe for long haul flights from the US to Middle East or Asia and vice versa. The shops in Amsterdam are not catering to Europeans but rather Americans, Middle Easterners and Asians that are passing through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nobody is forced into mediocre existence. People just don't care about material things like they do here.They don't produce as much waste a much as Americans. Perhaps this is your measure of good life. Add $10k of crap Americans buy a year, and health, property taxes, education to that $50k.
It never crossed my mind in EU that I will be homeless or can't afford to go to the doctors. If this were in the back of my mind all the time, sure I want to become well off. This is not a worry in EU.
The ones who have the drive, do get rich. Look at the unicorns per capita for Estonia. The education level for the poor is so much better than in US (see Pisa 2022). If any, the poor are forced and stay in poverty in US because of their education level.
Don't confuse not wanting to be uber rich with being held back. Europeans can invest in the markets/real estate just like anyone else. It's just not as important as it is here.
It actually seems more important to Eastern Europeans as we remember not being able to do so. But our kids are getting 'soft' as the need for extra things or money is not there. Experiences yes, but not things. They definitely travel more than people in US.
I'm from EE, but living here. I talk about money and the need to get rich more than my friends back at home. They need me to shut up and just enjoy the party.
They have access to American stock market and their own markets. They have the 20 euros a day to throw into it to retire early. They'd rather enjoy it, because they already live as if they are semi-retired.

I was shocked at the luxury stores in the Amsterdam airport. Europeans are clearly highly materialistic.. I’ve never seen Gucci, Louis Vuitton, Baccarat, and Hermes etc. stores in any American airports.

Lol, they are selling that stuff to rich Americans and Asians on their way home. Luxury goods are a major European export. That doesn't mean the average European is walking around in LV and Hermes. They don't shop at airports you goof.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You obviously feel strongly about what you wrote. Your comment is practically hysterical. Despite your claims, American women are having more babies than Europeans. It’s not a tiny wealthy minority.

My guess is you live in a blue urban liberal bubble and don’t get out there often. Your beliefs are shaped by wealthy liberals and the poor minorities living around you.

I'm not PP, but are you disputing that the U.S. has the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world?

I think if you remove one minority group with terrible health, high obesity rates, low education and high out of wedlock births then the situation in America looks very different.
It’s tragic but simply doesn’t apply to your average white woman who graduated college and got married before having kids.

It actually does. A friend of mine from college (Ivy, natch) died in childbirth at 32. Don’t think it can’t happen to people like you.

I posted the stats that are ONLY for non-Hispanic white women (since the posters here seem very convinced that only minorities have bad outcomes.) The infant mortality rate for white women in the United States is 4.5 which is REALLY high. Spain, Portugal, Ireland, France, etc. basically everywhere in Europe is A LOT better.

The brainwashing one has to undertake to convince themselves to defend a system that literally results in the death of their own children is insane.

NP and European. I am not surprised that mortality rate is so high in USA. I have never seen such a large amount of overweight and obese women like I saw in US.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You obviously feel strongly about what you wrote. Your comment is practically hysterical. Despite your claims, American women are having more babies than Europeans. It’s not a tiny wealthy minority.

My guess is you live in a blue urban liberal bubble and don’t get out there often. Your beliefs are shaped by wealthy liberals and the poor minorities living around you.

I'm not PP, but are you disputing that the U.S. has the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world?

I think if you remove one minority group with terrible health, high obesity rates, low education and high out of wedlock births then the situation in America looks very different.
It’s tragic but simply doesn’t apply to your average white woman who graduated college and got married before having kids.

What you fail to understand is that Europe also has poor immigrants. Chile has poor people. There are minority groups in Europe with terrible health and low education and out of wedlock births — as you so delicately put it.

And yet, the United States is the only developed country with a maternal and infant mortality rate that Latvia would be ashamed of.

There is no denying that the United States has horrible outcomes for women and babies. But sure keep putting your head in the sand.

You are funny. Obviously you are not from Latvia and know nothing about Latvia. You want the same outcome for American women? Maybe stop eating trash food and learn about healthy eating habits and keep your weight at normal levels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. Repeating for the people who think they are discovering something novel. The US is a terrible place to be poor but ok if you are rich (though that is getting to be debatable). Europe is a good place to be if you are middle income or poor. The rich try to shelter.

Europe still sucks to be poor, it’s just that more people are poor so you don’t feel as bad because everyone else is in the same boat. And it’s harder to become not poor. Reduced class mobility, more entrenched aristocratic wealth over there. They tax labor like crazy but barely touch capital generated income.

Wrong. You can get sick and not become homeless or die. You can retire! Your kids can go to university and not have to put 50% of their paycheck into repaying their debt. You can still have days off. Their lower class lifestyle is a middle class lifestyle here without the constant undercurrent of terror that medical debt will take you down or your kids will get shot at school.

Wild you think everyone in the US is just one medical crisis away from homelessness and doesn’t take vacation. This mantra is often repeated and people like you believe it. It’s funny when my European friends find out how much vacation I get and my friends too (somewhere between 4-6 weeks) because it really disappoints them.

How would our country be so powerful and wealthy if no one ever took vacation and getting sick meant you became homeless? That doesn’t make any sense.

Everyone? No. But the USA is the only country in the world where medical bankruptsy exists. So clearly not that rare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sigh. Repeating for the people who think they are discovering something novel. The US is a terrible place to be poor but ok if you are rich (though that is getting to be debatable). Europe is a good place to be if you are middle income or poor. The rich try to shelter.

Europe still sucks to be poor, it’s just that more people are poor so you don’t feel as bad because everyone else is in the same boat. And it’s harder to become not poor. Reduced class mobility, more entrenched aristocratic wealth over there. They tax labor like crazy but barely touch capital generated income.

Wrong. You can get sick and not become homeless or die. You can retire! Your kids can go to university and not have to put 50% of their paycheck into repaying their debt. You can still have days off. Their lower class lifestyle is a middle class lifestyle here without the constant undercurrent of terror that medical debt will take you down or your kids will get shot at school.

Wild you think everyone in the US is just one medical crisis away from homelessness and doesn’t take vacation. This mantra is often repeated and people like you believe it. It’s funny when my European friends find out how much vacation I get and my friends too (somewhere between 4-6 weeks) because it really disappoints them.

How would our country be so powerful and wealthy if no one ever took vacation and getting sick meant you became homeless? That doesn’t make any sense.

Everyone? No. But the USA is the only country in the world where medical bankruptsy exists. So clearly not that rare.

63% of Americans don't even have $500 to pay an emergency expense.

[Anonymous]

Spouse was born and raised in Eastern Europe. Our European friends and family visit us for months at a time (we and our kids mostly enjoy it, though sometimes it gets to be a bit much). These people have expressed that they'd love to be here permanently, but also recognize that it's probably too late for them to make a good life in America. You do have to have your nose to the grindstone from a young age, generally speaking, to build a career and wealth. But the rewards can be spectacular. Our European friends have little stability, little savings, no careers to speak of - just float around, from my perspective. I would never take off for months to hang out in a foreign country. But it's their way of life. One could say that's a benefit of that life - not being tied to work - but the difference in our level of financial security is staggering. I would not want to trade places.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You obviously feel strongly about what you wrote. Your comment is practically hysterical. Despite your claims, American women are having more babies than Europeans. It’s not a tiny wealthy minority.

My guess is you live in a blue urban liberal bubble and don’t get out there often. Your beliefs are shaped by wealthy liberals and the poor minorities living around you.

I'm not PP, but are you disputing that the U.S. has the highest infant mortality rate in the developed world?

I think if you remove one minority group with terrible health, high obesity rates, low education and high out of wedlock births then the situation in America looks very different.
It’s tragic but simply doesn’t apply to your average white woman who graduated college and got married before having kids.

What you fail to understand is that Europe also has poor immigrants. Chile has poor people. There are minority groups in Europe with terrible health and low education and out of wedlock births — as you so delicately put it.

And yet, the United States is the only developed country with a maternal and infant mortality rate that Latvia would be ashamed of.

There is no denying that the United States has horrible outcomes for women and babies. But sure keep putting your head in the sand.

The CIA estimates the US' infant mortality rate at a 5.1 per 1000 vs Latvia's 4.7. Meanwhile Afghanistan is a 101.3. You're stretching.

Stop and think about what you’re saying:

You’re celebrating because the US has better health outcomes than Afghanistan! And you’re accepting that the United States is worse than Latvia. But maybe if we work hard we can finally meet Latvia’s numbers.

THAT is winning?

I'm suggesting that you're pretending the US is so awful when it's very slightly worse than major European countries, which largely have socialized medicine. The US doesn't have horrible outcomes, it has slightly worse outcomes, largely due to a single population group that has an outsized impact on the numbers.

Hold up. The US is not slightly worse than major European countries. The US is slightly worse than one of the poorest countries in the Europe — Latvia.

The US has completely fallen behind major European countries like the UK, Germany and France. And all of those countries have poor African migrants, war refugees and asylum seekers included in their data.

The poorest country in Europe is Moldova, not Latvia. (taking Ukraine out for obvious reasons)

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/poorest-countries-in-europe#title

You are correct! The United States has better health outcomes that the poorest country in Europe.

USA! USA! USA! USA!

Doesn’t it make you proud? Better than Moldova and Afghanistan! Worse than Latvia, Estonia, Ireland, Portugal, Spain, France, (the list is too long to type out but you get the idea.)