Woodley pool suspends member over transgender swimmer.

[Anonymous]

In the present data, evaluating 7 years of national level children's short course swimming competition, the males were 1.16%–2.63% significantly faster than females in the 50 yd (45.7 m), 100 yd (91.4 m), and 200 yd (182.9 m) freestyle, 100 yd backstroke, 50 yd breaststroke, 100 yd butterfly, and 100 and 200 yd IM. Also, in the present data the percentage differences in finishing times between those individuals who would receive medals were 1.46%–1.58%. The percentage difference in finishing times between the non-medalists was smaller (0.60%–0.85%) than the difference between medalists. Collectively, these data indicate that the time differences between males and females in the 50, 100, and 200 yd freestyle, 100 yd backstroke, 50 yd breaststroke, 100 yd butterfly, and 100 and 200 yd IM are equal to or larger than the time differences between medalists, and are two-to-three times larger than the differences between non-medalists suggesting that the between sex time differences are larger than the within sex differences.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ejsc.12237#:~:text=However%2C%20there%20are%20no%20evaluations,based%20differences%20in%20swimming%20performance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should not be deputizing random men to police the gender of children.

Yes, actually, we should be.

Parents have got to start standing up in situations like this. I admire him for his courage.

You're okay with a random adult man demanding your child prove she's a girl? Please tell me how you think this is going to play out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should not be deputizing random men to police the gender of children.

Yes, actually, we should be.

Parents have got to start standing up in situations like this. I admire him for his courage.

He flagged the issue to the people in charge (team reps/referee). Then he decided that he didn’t like the decision they made so took it into his own hands to be the sole arbiter of who gets to swim in a fun meet for little kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is wild.

I would definitely like more info. Based on that interview, I'm tentatively on his side, but I don't trust the Daily Wire and also I'm very put off by him using a bunch of photos of his kids to help make him sympathetic here. Leave your kids out of it, this could expose them to harassment or ostracism at school and in other activities. People are insane on this issue.

I'm a liberal who doesn't think trans girls or women should compete in competitive female sports but these conversations are very hard to have and when I've revealed this opinion to liberal friends, the degree of vitriol I've received (from people I've known for years, who know me to be a reliable liberal/progressive) has been pretty shocking.

It doesn't even sound like it was a bona fide "trans child." It was just a boy who put on a girl's swim suit.

What are you basing that on?

OP's linked article. Did you even read it?

On July 13, Fernandez was serving as marshal during a “mini meet” at Woodley when he noticed a male swimmer wearing a girls’ bathing suit competing in a girls’ race.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should not be deputizing random men to police the gender of children.

Yes, actually, we should be.

Parents have got to start standing up in situations like this. I admire him for his courage.

You're okay with a random adult man demanding your child prove she's a girl? Please tell me how you think this is going to play out.

But it wasn't a girl now, was it?

[Anonymous]

This topic gives me serious anxiety. As a parent of an 8u boy, who has historically always loved more “feminine” things (dresses/barbies) and is always superwoman and not superman. I fear for him in the future, ugh.

The topic is complicated, but no reason this should have been blasted in such a public manner. The kid must feel awful. Concerns should have been dealt with privately. What a weird article with all of the photos he provided.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That is wild.

I would definitely like more info. Based on that interview, I'm tentatively on his side, but I don't trust the Daily Wire and also I'm very put off by him using a bunch of photos of his kids to help make him sympathetic here. Leave your kids out of it, this could expose them to harassment or ostracism at school and in other activities. People are insane on this issue.

I'm a liberal who doesn't think trans girls or women should compete in competitive female sports but these conversations are very hard to have and when I've revealed this opinion to liberal friends, the degree of vitriol I've received (from people I've known for years, who know me to be a reliable liberal/progressive) has been pretty shocking.

It doesn't even sound like it was a bona fide "trans child." It was just a boy who put on a girl's swim suit.

What are you basing that on?

OP's linked article. Did you even read it?

On July 13, Fernandez was serving as marshal during a “mini meet” at Woodley when he noticed a male swimmer wearing a girls’ bathing suit competing in a girls’ race.

Does the Daily Wire ever acknowledge "bona fide" trans people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We should not be deputizing random men to police the gender of children.

Individuals act when top-down rules are perceived as unfair and wrong. This is the history of the US in a nutshell.

This will happen more and more often as people chafe more and more against the restrictions of a top-down belief structure they never believed in.

I actually agree with you, but I don’t see this stopping while the power of the state supports gender ideology the way it does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We should not be deputizing random men to police the gender of children.

Yes, actually, we should be.

Parents have got to start standing up in situations like this. I admire him for his courage.

You're okay with a random adult man demanding your child prove she's a girl? Please tell me how you think this is going to play out.

But it wasn't a girl now, was it?

And again you know this how? A prepubescent boy and girl are not distinguishable when clothed.

Because let's be clear, you're saying it should be okay for an adult man to demand gender checks of a child. Meaning what, a kid has to show their private parts to an adult stranger.

Because hell no.

[Anonymous]

I think the answer is the drastically shift our sports culture so that trans girls can safely participate in an open category with boys and feel welcome there.

[Anonymous]

This was a mini meet, as in a type of B meet? Is that correct? We combine genders for B meets all the time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This topic gives me serious anxiety. As a parent of an 8u boy, who has historically always loved more “feminine” things (dresses/barbies) and is always superwoman and not superman. I fear for him in the future, ugh.

The topic is complicated, but no reason this should have been blasted in such a public manner. The kid must feel awful. Concerns should have been dealt with privately. What a weird article with all of the photos he provided.

My younger sister was misgendered as a child simply because she's very tall and has broad shoulders (our Dad is a big former high school football player type). I can easily see some idiot sending a mob after a little girl just like my sister.

[Anonymous]

I don't like how Fernandez handled this.

However, I also don't like how the team or meet organizers handled it, or how NVSL handled it. This is not a situation you can just pretend is not happening. It is happening. There are trans girls competing as girls in sex-segregated sports, and it is raising an issue of fairness.

The sports were sex segregated for a reason. It wasn't arbitrary. We cannot pretend suddenly that it *is* arbitrary because that makes it easier to tell the family of the trans girl "yes, of course she can swim in the girls category! we don't care!" Some people do care. And if, as in this case, the trans girl goes on to win, many people will view this as unfair to the biological girls who lost to someone who is making an affirmative choice to identify as a girl. A choice those girls didn't have.

This is where the progressive stance on trans girls in sports lose me. We cannot just pretend there isn't a problem here. And we can't just act like pointing out the problem immediately makes you a bigot.

If this wasn't a problem, there would be no sex segregation in sports to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

In the present data, evaluating 7 years of national level children's short course swimming competition, the males were 1.16%–2.63% significantly faster than females in the 50 yd (45.7 m), 100 yd (91.4 m), and 200 yd (182.9 m) freestyle, 100 yd backstroke, 50 yd breaststroke, 100 yd butterfly, and 100 and 200 yd IM. Also, in the present data the percentage differences in finishing times between those individuals who would receive medals were 1.46%–1.58%. The percentage difference in finishing times between the non-medalists was smaller (0.60%–0.85%) than the difference between medalists. Collectively, these data indicate that the time differences between males and females in the 50, 100, and 200 yd freestyle, 100 yd backstroke, 50 yd breaststroke, 100 yd butterfly, and 100 and 200 yd IM are equal to or larger than the time differences between medalists, and are two-to-three times larger than the differences between non-medalists suggesting that the between sex time differences are larger than the within sex differences.

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/ejsc.12237#:~:text=However%2C%20there%20are%20no%20evaluations,based%20differences%20in%20swimming%20performance.

But my feelings say there is no difference between boys and girls physically before puberty and girls should have no problem with boys swimming against them! My extremely passionate feelings on this topic are more important than your data, sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't like how Fernandez handled this.

However, I also don't like how the team or meet organizers handled it, or how NVSL handled it. This is not a situation you can just pretend is not happening. It is happening. There are trans girls competing as girls in sex-segregated sports, and it is raising an issue of fairness.

The sports were sex segregated for a reason. It wasn't arbitrary. We cannot pretend suddenly that it *is* arbitrary because that makes it easier to tell the family of the trans girl "yes, of course she can swim in the girls category! we don't care!" Some people do care. And if, as in this case, the trans girl goes on to win, many people will view this as unfair to the biological girls who lost to someone who is making an affirmative choice to identify as a girl. A choice those girls didn't have.

This is where the progressive stance on trans girls in sports lose me. We cannot just pretend there isn't a problem here. And we can't just act like pointing out the problem immediately makes you a bigot.

If this wasn't a problem, there would be no sex segregation in sports to begin with.

I mostly agree with you, but I think you assume trans people don't "need" to be trans, but that is who they are. It is a really difficult situation and unfortunately boys sports are not a welcoming space for trans girls. Everyone deserves to have access to sports.