Woodley pool suspends member over transgender swimmer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:And it’s not even like the parents of the child can come out and say anything, it’s a lose lose for them.

If their child was in fact assigned female at birth, this could shine an unnecessary spotlight on their child and cause embarrassment.

If the child was male at birth, it’s only going to inflame things further.

Good thing they don't have to. The underlying complaint doesn't matter, whether it was a false start, stroke infraction, swimsuit violation, cap violation, or wearing a tech suit, watch or even KT tape during a race. Fernandez believed "cheating" was going on and entered white knight savior mode and only he was brave enough to stand up to the elitist leftists. Or alternatively, he was just a being an a-hole at a b-meet meet run by volunteers.

[Anonymous]

Where or no trans athletes should or shouldn't be allowed to compete is a separate issue and whole other discussion. The way he handled it was 100% inappropriate.

What if I disagree with the NVSL policy on age and think kids should age up on their birthday. Would it be appropriate for me to call out a kid swimming in the "wrong" age group? Would it be appropriate for me to go over to the results and write 11 next to the 10 yr old or 19 next to the 18 yr old? Would it be ok for me to yell bullsh*t when a 15 yr old beat my kid in a 13-14 race? Should I demand the birth certificate of every kid who looks older than their stated age?

[Anonymous]

Does WW swim give out awards to its parent volunteers? I bet he got the transgressor paper plate award!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there literally any proof that this even happened?

I think we're well beyond that - please try to keep up.

DP, but we are actually not well beyond that. Thus far, everyone in this thread is reacting to a piece of propaganda that is intended to manufacture threads like this one. Even assuming that every factual claim in the piece is true, we are missing important information. As was -- in all likelihood -- this gentleman.

This made me curious so I did some Googling - there's nothing about this anywhere except the article linked in the OP and a few other rightwing outrage machines reposting it (sometimes with a few original lines as a lead in).

So I went to the Woodley Pool's Facebook page to see if members are discussing it at all, and found the original post announcing the July 13 "meet" (no comments on that or any following posts about this supposed controversy) where it says:

There is still time! Sign up for the Mini Meet today. It’s a great way for your kids that aren’t yet a part of the Woodley Warriors to get a taste for a swim meet in a fun event for the whole family!
Even our youngest swimmers can use a kick board and have one of our talented teenagers in the lane with them.

And . . . I cannot imagine anything less worthy of outrage than the idea that a kid might have been competing in the wrong "division" at an event thus advertised. If this happened, then Luis Fernandez is certifiably insane.

Truly. Like most people, I don't think it's fair for biological males to be competing against biological females in any competitive sport post-puberty. But this is just a fun swim for 10 year olds. And to cause such a scene is reprehensible.

What a horrible man. Another lost to social media and the brain melt that so many are susceptible to. Hope this knuckle-dragger is banned from all events going forward.

[Anonymous]

Just being an a-hole at a noncompetitive developmental swimming event is what he was.
B meets are mixed gender all the time because they are so long and there are often kids who otherwise would have to swim alone or with one other competitor. At our pool, only the kids who are 12 and under even pick up their B meet ribbons. They sit in folders for years till someone finally stops by to get them.

[Anonymous]

This wasn't even a B meet. It was a pre- swim team event for fun

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where or no trans athletes should or shouldn't be allowed to compete is a separate issue and whole other discussion. The way he handled it was 100% inappropriate.

What if I disagree with the NVSL policy on age and think kids should age up on their birthday. Would it be appropriate for me to call out a kid swimming in the "wrong" age group? Would it be appropriate for me to go over to the results and write 11 next to the 10 yr old or 19 next to the 18 yr old? Would it be ok for me to yell bullsh*t when a 15 yr old beat my kid in a 13-14 race? Should I demand the birth certificate of every kid who looks older than their stated age?

+10000 - perfect analogy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where or no trans athletes should or shouldn't be allowed to compete is a separate issue and whole other discussion. The way he handled it was 100% inappropriate.

What if I disagree with the NVSL policy on age and think kids should age up on their birthday. Would it be appropriate for me to call out a kid swimming in the "wrong" age group? Would it be appropriate for me to go over to the results and write 11 next to the 10 yr old or 19 next to the 18 yr old? Would it be ok for me to yell bullsh*t when a 15 yr old beat my kid in a 13-14 race? Should I demand the birth certificate of every kid who looks older than their stated age?

Agree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Completely unacceptable behavior from this man and incredible that he' run off to conservative media to try to justify his actions.

Parents cannot, and in the vast majority of cases do not, swear and confront other parents and officials when they think a different rule has been violated or when their child has been disqualified. Do we think it would be ok for him to have acted like this if his child was dq'ed for a false start? Why is it ok here? It's up to the meet referee to enforce the rules.

And a 10U mini meet is not the place to take a stand on transgender women in sport.

Of course it is. There are boys and girls teams for a reason.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there literally any proof that this even happened?

I think we're well beyond that - please try to keep up.

DP, but we are actually not well beyond that. Thus far, everyone in this thread is reacting to a piece of propaganda that is intended to manufacture threads like this one. Even assuming that every factual claim in the piece is true, we are missing important information. As was -- in all likelihood -- this gentleman.

This made me curious so I did some Googling - there's nothing about this anywhere except the article linked in the OP and a few other rightwing outrage machines reposting it (sometimes with a few original lines as a lead in).

So I went to the Woodley Pool's Facebook page to see if members are discussing it at all, and found the original post announcing the July 13 "meet" (no comments on that or any following posts about this supposed controversy) where it says:

There is still time! Sign up for the Mini Meet today. It’s a great way for your kids that aren’t yet a part of the Woodley Warriors to get a taste for a swim meet in a fun event for the whole family!
Even our youngest swimmers can use a kick board and have one of our talented teenagers in the lane with them.

And . . . I cannot imagine anything less worthy of outrage than the idea that a kid might have been competing in the wrong "division" at an event thus advertised. If this happened, then Luis Fernandez is certifiably insane.

Again, it’s a low key mini meet. Who cares who swims. Dogs and cats could’ve been allowed. Kick boards were certainly allowed. Sounds like this guy wanted to pick a fight and knew this was easy rage bait.

Just say that you want to end girls sports.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there literally any proof that this even happened?

I think we're well beyond that - please try to keep up.

DP, but we are actually not well beyond that. Thus far, everyone in this thread is reacting to a piece of propaganda that is intended to manufacture threads like this one. Even assuming that every factual claim in the piece is true, we are missing important information. As was -- in all likelihood -- this gentleman.

This made me curious so I did some Googling - there's nothing about this anywhere except the article linked in the OP and a few other rightwing outrage machines reposting it (sometimes with a few original lines as a lead in).

So I went to the Woodley Pool's Facebook page to see if members are discussing it at all, and found the original post announcing the July 13 "meet" (no comments on that or any following posts about this supposed controversy) where it says:

There is still time! Sign up for the Mini Meet today. It’s a great way for your kids that aren’t yet a part of the Woodley Warriors to get a taste for a swim meet in a fun event for the whole family!
Even our youngest swimmers can use a kick board and have one of our talented teenagers in the lane with them.

And . . . I cannot imagine anything less worthy of outrage than the idea that a kid might have been competing in the wrong "division" at an event thus advertised. If this happened, then Luis Fernandez is certifiably insane.

Again, it’s a low key mini meet. Who cares who swims. Dogs and cats could’ve been allowed. Kick boards were certainly allowed. Sounds like this guy wanted to pick a fight and knew this was easy rage bait.

Just say that you want to end girls sports.

take your outrage to USA swimming because NVSL follows their policy on transgender swimmers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does WW swim give out awards to its parent volunteers? I bet he got the transgressor paper plate award!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where or no trans athletes should or shouldn't be allowed to compete is a separate issue and whole other discussion. The way he handled it was 100% inappropriate.

What if I disagree with the NVSL policy on age and think kids should age up on their birthday. Would it be appropriate for me to call out a kid swimming in the "wrong" age group? Would it be appropriate for me to go over to the results and write 11 next to the 10 yr old or 19 next to the 18 yr old? Would it be ok for me to yell bullsh*t when a 15 yr old beat my kid in a 13-14 race? Should I demand the birth certificate of every kid who looks older than their stated age?

I agree this guy way overreacted, but I don't think your analogy is perfect because there is a clear, bright line rule for when kids age up in summer swim. Yes, some people don't agree with it, but it's not a confusing or hard to apply rule. So someone doing what you describe would be completely in the wrong because they just don't like the rule.

The question of which group trans girls should swim in is not clear and NVSL has been trying to sidestep it, and incidents like this become inevitable as a result. Because yes, some people are jerks and hotheads. But also because if there is no clear rule, people will try to impose clarity in one direction or another. If the child in question was in fact trans (we don't even know, which is part of the problem with what Fernandez did), their parents made the decision to sign them up to swim as a girl potentially without checking with anyone. Or they checked with someone and the person said, "yeah okay that makes sense" because it made sense to them. But you'd have to be living under a rock not to know that this is a more touchy issue for a lot of people, and it would just be much easier if there was a clear rule. Even if the rule was "In mini meets, exhibitions, and other non-competitive swimming events, swimmers may swim in the category that matches their gender identification regardless of sex assigned at birth." Personally, I'd be fine with that rule! But having it made clear would also make it possible to tell someone like Fernandez, "this is the rule, we all agreed to them when decided to participate" and he'd have to shut up.

Not having clear rules and communicating them to all participants is going to keep leading to incidents like this. It's not going to get better. Especially because way more people feel as Fernandez does on this issue than a lot of people understand. If you look at polling on this issue, the majority of people are not comfortable with trans girls competing against biological girls in athletic competitions. So there are a lot of Fernandezes out there and they are not just going to be quiet and deal. These issues need to be addressed directly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boys under 10 are not physically stronger than girls the same age (if anything, they tend to be smaller). Even if you have a problem with transgender athletes in teen and adult sports, this was still a non-issue for fairness.

Absolutely false. And note that he won both races.

You can look up records for swimming for kids ten and under. In almost all events, boys fastest times are slightly faster than girls. Once you get to 11-12 age group, boys dominate girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Where or no trans athletes should or shouldn't be allowed to compete is a separate issue and whole other discussion. The way he handled it was 100% inappropriate.

What if I disagree with the NVSL policy on age and think kids should age up on their birthday. Would it be appropriate for me to call out a kid swimming in the "wrong" age group? Would it be appropriate for me to go over to the results and write 11 next to the 10 yr old or 19 next to the 18 yr old? Would it be ok for me to yell bullsh*t when a 15 yr old beat my kid in a 13-14 race? Should I demand the birth certificate of every kid who looks older than their stated age?

I agree this guy way overreacted, but I don't think your analogy is perfect because there is a clear, bright line rule for when kids age up in summer swim. Yes, some people don't agree with it, but it's not a confusing or hard to apply rule. So someone doing what you describe would be completely in the wrong because they just don't like the rule.

The question of which group trans girls should swim in is not clear and NVSL has been trying to sidestep it, and incidents like this become inevitable as a result. Because yes, some people are jerks and hotheads. But also because if there is no clear rule, people will try to impose clarity in one direction or another. If the child in question was in fact trans (we don't even know, which is part of the problem with what Fernandez did), their parents made the decision to sign them up to swim as a girl potentially without checking with anyone. Or they checked with someone and the person said, "yeah okay that makes sense" because it made sense to them. But you'd have to be living under a rock not to know that this is a more touchy issue for a lot of people, and it would just be much easier if there was a clear rule. Even if the rule was "In mini meets, exhibitions, and other non-competitive swimming events, swimmers may swim in the category that matches their gender identification regardless of sex assigned at birth." Personally, I'd be fine with that rule! But having it made clear would also make it possible to tell someone like Fernandez, "this is the rule, we all agreed to them when decided to participate" and he'd have to shut up.

Not having clear rules and communicating them to all participants is going to keep leading to incidents like this. It's not going to get better. Especially because way more people feel as Fernandez does on this issue than a lot of people understand. If you look at polling on this issue, the majority of people are not comfortable with trans girls competing against biological girls in athletic competitions. So there are a lot of Fernandezes out there and they are not just going to be quiet and deal. These issues need to be addressed directly.

Absolutely no part of me believes he would have shut up. He had the opportunity to shut up! This was a mini-meet. Non-scored, non-competitive, literally the perfect opportunity to shut up. And yet.....