Pomona vs Williams ED for Chemistry/Neuroscience

[Anonymous]

the Williams athletic influence is real and prevalent everywhere- 40% of kids on teams, cliques everywhere

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - how much exposure does she have to neuroscience? That seems like a pretty narrow focus. A semester? A summer internship? Particularly because they are both SLACs, I would not factor the neuroscience part much into the equation.

Where do you live? Which campus seems like a better fit? I know Williams fairly well and very little about Pomona except a somewhat odd acquaintance in their 50s who went there (and I am wise enough not to let that influence my opinion). They seem like pretty different places other than size and prestige.

In many ways they're pretty similar. Top LACs known for their good financial aid, diversity, high quality math departments, interest in global engagement (Pomona and Williams both currently have a Global emphasis in their strategic plans, Pomona has the Cambridge Program and Downing Scholars, Williams has WEPO and Oxford fellowships), both have a pretty big outdoors community/focus. The differences are mostly tutorial versus consortium, but the similarities are very much there, because Pomona, in general, is modeled after a New England college.

I don't really think neuro is that narrow. It's a field that intersects computer science, statistics, biology, chemistry, and mathematics. It's a bit of a juiced up biology degree.

My question is how much does she truly know about neuroscience? Assuming she finished her junior year of HS, she was likely largely taking core type classes - Bio, Chem and Physics, English, History, Language, the usual math sequence, etc. So I don't know how much exposure she would have to something like that. Perhaps someone with an interest might have gotten a semester or so of it junior year, and then will take it senior year.

Both schools are very national, but I think Williams draws more heavily from the east coast, while Pomona more from the west, and that is where most kids end up. Their names are strong enough that you can end up wherever you want, but there might not be a ton of other alums there.

Williams is also more isolated. There just is not much there. Which has its pros and cons. My kid is OK with that, particularly because they love skiing so will take advantage of it. Many others would find it limiting. Pomona is less isolated.

She has competed and received awards from the national brain bee, does volunteering with Alzheimers patients, and is pretty active/leads the psych club at school. Getting a summer internship is pretty unheard of for a high school student, so she hasn't done that.

I don't see why we wouldn't factor in the neuroscience, since it is not beyond a liberal arts college to have a subject inside the liberal arts.

We live outside of Boston. Once again, we found the campus comparisons unfair since it was a shining perfect day in Claremont when we visited, and we don't want to rush to assumptions because it was nice for one day. Both seemed pretty isolating to us, but obviously Pomona is a bit more connected with access to LA.

For other posters, we were pretty underwhelmed by Amherst and DD really didn't enjoy the campus aesthetic nor did we like any of the students/faculty we talked with. Seemed like an alright place, but it isn't a good match for DD. Swarthmore is a bit too academically focused that it seems suffocating to be in for four years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - how much exposure does she have to neuroscience? That seems like a pretty narrow focus. A semester? A summer internship? Particularly because they are both SLACs, I would not factor the neuroscience part much into the equation.

Where do you live? Which campus seems like a better fit? I know Williams fairly well and very little about Pomona except a somewhat odd acquaintance in their 50s who went there (and I am wise enough not to let that influence my opinion). They seem like pretty different places other than size and prestige.

In many ways they're pretty similar. Top LACs known for their good financial aid, diversity, high quality math departments, interest in global engagement (Pomona and Williams both currently have a Global emphasis in their strategic plans, Pomona has the Cambridge Program and Downing Scholars, Williams has WEPO and Oxford fellowships), both have a pretty big outdoors community/focus. The differences are mostly tutorial versus consortium, but the similarities are very much there, because Pomona, in general, is modeled after a New England college.

I don't really think neuro is that narrow. It's a field that intersects computer science, statistics, biology, chemistry, and mathematics. It's a bit of a juiced up biology degree.

My question is how much does she truly know about neuroscience? Assuming she finished her junior year of HS, she was likely largely taking core type classes - Bio, Chem and Physics, English, History, Language, the usual math sequence, etc. So I don't know how much exposure she would have to something like that. Perhaps someone with an interest might have gotten a semester or so of it junior year, and then will take it senior year.

Both schools are very national, but I think Williams draws more heavily from the east coast, while Pomona more from the west, and that is where most kids end up. Their names are strong enough that you can end up wherever you want, but there might not be a ton of other alums there.

Williams is also more isolated. There just is not much there. Which has its pros and cons. My kid is OK with that, particularly because they love skiing so will take advantage of it. Many others would find it limiting. Pomona is less isolated.

She has competed and received awards from the national brain bee, does volunteering with Alzheimers patients, and is pretty active/leads the psych club at school. Getting a summer internship is pretty unheard of for a high school student, so she hasn't done that.

I don't see why we wouldn't factor in the neuroscience, since it is not beyond a liberal arts college to have a subject inside the liberal arts.

We live outside of Boston. Once again, we found the campus comparisons unfair since it was a shining perfect day in Claremont when we visited, and we don't want to rush to assumptions because it was nice for one day. Both seemed pretty isolating to us, but obviously Pomona is a bit more connected with access to LA.

For other posters, we were pretty underwhelmed by Amherst and DD really didn't enjoy the campus aesthetic nor did we like any of the students/faculty we talked with. Seemed like an alright place, but it isn't a good match for DD. Swarthmore is a bit too academically focused that it seems suffocating to be in for four years.

I would encourage her to stretch her wings and apply to Pomona. You gain a lot of confidence and independence when you are far from home. It is a gift to be able to enjoy and be comfortable on both the East and West Coasts

[Anonymous]

We toured Williams recently and didn’t like it. Campus was okay and town was small and drab. Some like the tutorial system which is good if you’re not a self starter but my kid thought it too intense.We didn’t look at the west coast because we didn’t want them going so far away from home. To each their own.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We toured Williams recently and didn’t like it. Campus was okay and town was small and drab. Some like the tutorial system which is good if you’re not a self starter but my kid thought it too intense.We didn’t look at the west coast because we didn’t want them going so far away from home. To each their own.

And this comment was necessary and will help op how?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - how much exposure does she have to neuroscience? That seems like a pretty narrow focus. A semester? A summer internship? Particularly because they are both SLACs, I would not factor the neuroscience part much into the equation.

Where do you live? Which campus seems like a better fit? I know Williams fairly well and very little about Pomona except a somewhat odd acquaintance in their 50s who went there (and I am wise enough not to let that influence my opinion). They seem like pretty different places other than size and prestige.

In many ways they're pretty similar. Top LACs known for their good financial aid, diversity, high quality math departments, interest in global engagement (Pomona and Williams both currently have a Global emphasis in their strategic plans, Pomona has the Cambridge Program and Downing Scholars, Williams has WEPO and Oxford fellowships), both have a pretty big outdoors community/focus. The differences are mostly tutorial versus consortium, but the similarities are very much there, because Pomona, in general, is modeled after a New England college.

I don't really think neuro is that narrow. It's a field that intersects computer science, statistics, biology, chemistry, and mathematics. It's a bit of a juiced up biology degree.

My question is how much does she truly know about neuroscience? Assuming she finished her junior year of HS, she was likely largely taking core type classes - Bio, Chem and Physics, English, History, Language, the usual math sequence, etc. So I don't know how much exposure she would have to something like that. Perhaps someone with an interest might have gotten a semester or so of it junior year, and then will take it senior year.

Both schools are very national, but I think Williams draws more heavily from the east coast, while Pomona more from the west, and that is where most kids end up. Their names are strong enough that you can end up wherever you want, but there might not be a ton of other alums there.

Williams is also more isolated. There just is not much there. Which has its pros and cons. My kid is OK with that, particularly because they love skiing so will take advantage of it. Many others would find it limiting. Pomona is less isolated.

She has competed and received awards from the national brain bee, does volunteering with Alzheimers patients, and is pretty active/leads the psych club at school. Getting a summer internship is pretty unheard of for a high school student, so she hasn't done that.

I don't see why we wouldn't factor in the neuroscience, since it is not beyond a liberal arts college to have a subject inside the liberal arts.

We live outside of Boston. Once again, we found the campus comparisons unfair since it was a shining perfect day in Claremont when we visited, and we don't want to rush to assumptions because it was nice for one day. Both seemed pretty isolating to us, but obviously Pomona is a bit more connected with access to LA.

For other posters, we were pretty underwhelmed by Amherst and DD really didn't enjoy the campus aesthetic nor did we like any of the students/faculty we talked with. Seemed like an alright place, but it isn't a good match for DD. Swarthmore is a bit too academically focused that it seems suffocating to be in for four years.

NP: If she is that hard core for a specific scientific discipline, a SLAC might not be right for her as it isn't as research focused. You generally choose a SLAC for the overall product, not a specific area - that is the point of a liberal arts education. Obviously SLACs are a great overall experience and many go on from them to do PhD's in sciences, but the nuanced details of the science departments are irrelevant.

Sounds like she has done some great things - congrats. It is a big difference between going to school a fairly short drive from home vs. cross country. Obviously lots of pros and cons. But helpful to know you are outside Boston.

[Anonymous]

My experience from Williams is 30+ years old but back then, it had a great chemistry department. The one chemistry major I knew went on to a top PhD program.

[Anonymous]

The weather is nice a lot of days at Pomona!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just curious - how much exposure does she have to neuroscience? That seems like a pretty narrow focus. A semester? A summer internship? Particularly because they are both SLACs, I would not factor the neuroscience part much into the equation.

Where do you live? Which campus seems like a better fit? I know Williams fairly well and very little about Pomona except a somewhat odd acquaintance in their 50s who went there (and I am wise enough not to let that influence my opinion). They seem like pretty different places other than size and prestige.

In many ways they're pretty similar. Top LACs known for their good financial aid, diversity, high quality math departments, interest in global engagement (Pomona and Williams both currently have a Global emphasis in their strategic plans, Pomona has the Cambridge Program and Downing Scholars, Williams has WEPO and Oxford fellowships), both have a pretty big outdoors community/focus. The differences are mostly tutorial versus consortium, but the similarities are very much there, because Pomona, in general, is modeled after a New England college.

I don't really think neuro is that narrow. It's a field that intersects computer science, statistics, biology, chemistry, and mathematics. It's a bit of a juiced up biology degree.

My question is how much does she truly know about neuroscience? Assuming she finished her junior year of HS, she was likely largely taking core type classes - Bio, Chem and Physics, English, History, Language, the usual math sequence, etc. So I don't know how much exposure she would have to something like that. Perhaps someone with an interest might have gotten a semester or so of it junior year, and then will take it senior year.

Both schools are very national, but I think Williams draws more heavily from the east coast, while Pomona more from the west, and that is where most kids end up. Their names are strong enough that you can end up wherever you want, but there might not be a ton of other alums there.

Williams is also more isolated. There just is not much there. Which has its pros and cons. My kid is OK with that, particularly because they love skiing so will take advantage of it. Many others would find it limiting. Pomona is less isolated.

She has competed and received awards from the national brain bee, does volunteering with Alzheimers patients, and is pretty active/leads the psych club at school. Getting a summer internship is pretty unheard of for a high school student, so she hasn't done that.

I don't see why we wouldn't factor in the neuroscience, since it is not beyond a liberal arts college to have a subject inside the liberal arts.

We live outside of Boston. Once again, we found the campus comparisons unfair since it was a shining perfect day in Claremont when we visited, and we don't want to rush to assumptions because it was nice for one day. Both seemed pretty isolating to us, but obviously Pomona is a bit more connected with access to LA.

For other posters, we were pretty underwhelmed by Amherst and DD really didn't enjoy the campus aesthetic nor did we like any of the students/faculty we talked with. Seemed like an alright place, but it isn't a good match for DD. Swarthmore is a bit too academically focused that it seems suffocating to be in for four years.

NP: If she is that hard core for a specific scientific discipline, a SLAC might not be right for her as it isn't as research focused. You generally choose a SLAC for the overall product, not a specific area - that is the point of a liberal arts education. Obviously SLACs are a great overall experience and many go on from them to do PhD's in sciences, but the nuanced details of the science departments are irrelevant.

Sounds like she has done some great things - congrats. It is a big difference between going to school a fairly short drive from home vs. cross country. Obviously lots of pros and cons. But helpful to know you are outside Boston.

For what it's worth, ours chose Pomona because of the physics program specifically. He has had an amazing time and still adores the physics major and has not been let down by research opportunities. With LACs, it's good to compare departments, because some departments are occasionally underfunded or undersupported if not enough students have interest. Also I think the entire 5C model kinda disproves this. You go to Mudd because you want to do STEM, you go to Pitzer because you have an interest in the environment, organizing, or social institutions, you go to CMC because you have an interest in economics, government, or philosophy. You can be hard core interested in something, and still have other coursework. For example, DS took classes in religious studies and German, because they were still of interest. Students still come into LACs with some working idea of their interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The weather is nice a lot of days at Pomona!!

+1, it only rains something like 30 days the whole year in Claremont in an average year. Tanning on a random day sounds about right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The weather is nice a lot of days at Pomona!!

No kidding. This is typical weather. OP, you know what Williamstown is like — Boston but more snow and colder; lots of clouds in the winter. Have fun at Williams during winter session!

[Anonymous]

I love how all of DCUM tries to pretend that Williams is far superior to Pomona-just East coast snobbery talking. They are equivalent schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love how all of DCUM tries to pretend that Williams is far superior to Pomona-just East coast snobbery talking. They are equivalent schools.

I haven't seen that at all. I think they are pretty much assumed to be peer schools. Sure, there is the occasional moron who says otherwise, but that is the exception, not the rule.

[Anonymous]

Hi OP-my DC attends Pomona and is a Chemistry major. The Chem department is robust and offers a ton of personalized mentoring and early exposure to research opportunities, which is imperative for getting into grad school or med school, whatever the goal may be (Pomona is highly known to Ivy League grad schools too and has a strong presence at Harvard Med, so all of this talk about being trapped on the West Coast forever is a bunch of baloney.) In fact, a lot of my kid’s friends are from the East coast, esp NYC. There is a senior thesis requirement so if you start research early you can carry it on all 4 years to have a meaningful thesis. The kids can cross enroll at all of the other colleges and the consortium is truly unique given the proximity of the other schools. It didn’t feel as small as other NESCAC’s we looked at and not as much divide between athletes and non athletes as many complain about at Williams and Amherst. The weather is also a big draw and the fact that you can escape for the weekend to go to the beach, ski, hike, explore LA, go to Disneyland, etc. We are thrilled our DC is having such a great experience there, it’s a wonderful place to spend 4 years! Good luck on your college search!

[Anonymous]

I think that with regards to athletes the concentration is a bit less at Pomona. They share teams with Pitzer so athletes are spread between the two schools. So though I think Pomona is a bit smaller than Williams, Pomona + Pitzer is bigger so athletes per capita is lower.

Taking a brief glance at the web sites, I think Pomona also offers fewer sports - no men's lax or hockey in particular, so likely overall a lower number of athletes.

I'm a big sports fan but I think D3 sports having gotten out of control with the coaches having way too much power, so fewer athletes is a good thing. I know many athletes are at or close to regular admissions standards, but it just creates a different culture.