Law firm, working moms, 1900-1950 hrs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You will need a driver to get your kids to and from afterschool sports practices/activities. At those ages, you also likely won't have much or any "after the kids go to bed" time to work.

Yeah but with teens the “after bed” doesn’t really matter. Teens can go for days without barely acknowledging your existence. Then randomly they will want to talk your ear off about some problem with a friend or a really exiting thing they did or whatever. So with teens you can get a lot done when you are in the same physical space with them provided you’re able to put the laptop down for a sec when they start to say something beyond “where are my cleats?” Or “can you drive my or the mall?” (Answers: probably wherever you left them and take the bus, I’m working).

So personally I think the critical questions are how much WFH time this firm allows and how long the commute is. A firm 30 minutes from home that allows wfh 2 days a week (and doesn’t count holidays or sick days or vacation days against your WFH) is totally different than a firm that requires 4 days minimum in office and is a full hour commute away. Teens don’t need active engagement very often but presence is helpful for when lightening strikes and they suddenly want to spend time with you. The fact that OP/ husband is 100% remote is really really helpful here—even more so if he can cook.

Also I’m not sure if the 1900 is really a minimum. There are lot of big law attorneys not making their minimums and it’s a slow road to being counseling out for that. Since OP is coming in at a high level lateral with skills, my guess is that her success will depend more on whether she is able to attract clients or provide essential backfill to partners who are rainmakers, as opposed to whether she’s at 1800 or 1900 for a year.

Not all teens are like this. . . mine talk to me a lot. The amount of interaction you have with your teen will depend on their personality and your relationship with them.

[Anonymous]

Ugh I would careful and ask a lot of questions about expectations for bringing in business. My husband is a relatively new partner and he spends a huge amount of time generating business. But some firms don’t need that I hear (if they already have more work than they can do).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When I was an associate with those billable hours, my fellow associates with babies generally said that they saw their kids 2 hours a day. One hour in the morning and one at night.

Isn't that how much most working parents see their kids? I'm at DOJ. I saw mine for half an hour in the morning and an hour and a half at night. That's just the reality of being a full time working parent, I think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son's fiancee is studying to be a lawyer and I wander if she is thinking about these issues (nobody in her family is a lawyer). She has ADHD tendencies so I don't know that she'd be good at staying focused on a Saturday afternoon or making best use of a half hour at home before dinner.

For people who have been through that grind: does it ever let up later in your career and how many years does it take to get there?
If 10 new hires start down that path (1900+ billable hours), how many of those 10 progress to a higher level that allows more time away from work?

This isn't your business. Stay out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m considering moving to a law firm from an agency for a partner-track senior associate position. The portfolio looks fantastic/ideal to me but obviously 1900 billable hours (1950 for bonus) is going to mean changes and sacrifice. I have heard horror stories of course but am just weighing options here…
There are lots of moms who are associates and partners who make it work. For those moms at comparable law firms, what does your daily/weekly schedule look like? What do you have to miss? What are your hacks? How much vacation do you take? I’m thinking I can do this for a few years and then go in-house. My 2 kids are in high school and middle school and my husband works remotely.
Thank you!

Back in 2004 I did 3,000 Billable hours. 1,950 is a joke That is 7.8 hours a day billable. But to do 3,000 hours I took zero days off that year, no lunch breaks worked around 8-8 every day on average, no vacation or sick days and did non billable admin work at night or weekends or before work. I had a 2 and 4 year old when did it. That was crazy however, but got me a big promotion. I was normally just 2,000 hours billable which was pretty easy.

All you need is a supporative spouse which I had and the ability to sleep very little. I have sleeping issues and go to bed around midnight every night and wake up aruond 545 am and fresh as a daisy. I can go on 4-5 hours sleep weeks on end. My spouse needs like 9 hours a night or cant function. Me other other hand can do fine on five hours a night so I have 20 hours extra each week of time.

I think the not sleeping is the wildcard. I could do all nighters in my 30s get home at 5am take a 90 minute power nap, get up, have coffee, shower, new clothes and be on road at 715 am no problem. My spouse it would knock her out for a few days.

It sounds like you're the male partner, and I bet you didn't have kids. Or at least you weren't a mom raising kids when you did that.

[Anonymous]

Keep in mind that 1900 billable hours is 38 billable hours a week, 50 weeks a year. If you want more than 2 weeks leave (for both vacation and sick days!), you will need to bill more than 38 hours a week to make that up. Plus, unless you are super busy, it is very hard to bill 8 hours in 8 hours because admin time, chatting time, stepping away from your desk to run out and get a sandwich etc is not billable. And if you bill 1900/50, is that really ok or is the unspoken word you better bill 2200-2400 or you get counseled out. If there is a "part time" option of 1800 or 1600 that would be a good compromise.

[Anonymous]

1950 is very easy and doable. I’ve been doing 2400 on average and had a baby several years ago. Still get to spend 6:30am-8:30am and 5:30-8:30pm with child on weekdays (I pick up work again after 8:30pm as needed, maybe 2-3x/week), and usually work 2 hours on Sat and Sunday each. About once a month I put in an extra 6 hours of super focused work time on a late night or weekend to clear my to do list. My husband does all the laundry, cooking on the weekdays, and dishes unless I’m having a very light day. I do 20-30 mins of cleaning a day to keep the house tidy and cover what my husband hasn’t. We have a housekeeper come every other week.

Whether this is possible depends on who you’re working with. Are you in a group that will have a lot of random urgent requests come in at all times of day/weekends/etc? That will be a tougher adjustment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1950 is very easy and doable. I’ve been doing 2400 on average and had a baby several years ago. Still get to spend 6:30am-8:30am and 5:30-8:30pm with child on weekdays (I pick up work again after 8:30pm as needed, maybe 2-3x/week), and usually work 2 hours on Sat and Sunday each. About once a month I put in an extra 6 hours of super focused work time on a late night or weekend to clear my to do list. My husband does all the laundry, cooking on the weekdays, and dishes unless I’m having a very light day. I do 20-30 mins of cleaning a day to keep the house tidy and cover what my husband hasn’t. We have a housekeeper come every other week.

Whether this is possible depends on who you’re working with. Are you in a group that will have a lot of random urgent requests come in at all times of day/weekends/etc? That will be a tougher adjustment.

troll

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m considering moving to a law firm from an agency for a partner-track senior associate position. The portfolio looks fantastic/ideal to me but obviously 1900 billable hours (1950 for bonus) is going to mean changes and sacrifice. I have heard horror stories of course but am just weighing options here…
There are lots of moms who are associates and partners who make it work. For those moms at comparable law firms, what does your daily/weekly schedule look like? What do you have to miss? What are your hacks? How much vacation do you take? I’m thinking I can do this for a few years and then go in-house. My 2 kids are in high school and middle school and my husband works remotely.
Thank you!

Back in 2004 I did 3,000 Billable hours. 1,950 is a joke That is 7.8 hours a day billable. But to do 3,000 hours I took zero days off that year, no lunch breaks worked around 8-8 every day on average, no vacation or sick days and did non billable admin work at night or weekends or before work. I had a 2 and 4 year old when did it. That was crazy however, but got me a big promotion. I was normally just 2,000 hours billable which was pretty easy.

All you need is a supporative spouse which I had and the ability to sleep very little. I have sleeping issues and go to bed around midnight every night and wake up aruond 545 am and fresh as a daisy. I can go on 4-5 hours sleep weeks on end. My spouse needs like 9 hours a night or cant function. Me other other hand can do fine on five hours a night so I have 20 hours extra each week of time.

I think the not sleeping is the wildcard. I could do all nighters in my 30s get home at 5am take a 90 minute power nap, get up, have coffee, shower, new clothes and be on road at 715 am no problem. My spouse it would knock her out for a few days.

It sounds like you're the male partner, and I bet you didn't have kids. Or at least you weren't a mom raising kids when you did that.

Women with big jobs have it easier. A successful women has a rich husband. A successful man often has a sahm wife. My male neighbor for instance went to Harvard Medical School and has a Stay at home spouse they have a pretty average life. But down the block we have a women who is surgeon and her husband is a CEO of a major company. They have servants, mansion, staff. Rich women marry richer men.

[Anonymous]

A lot depends on practice area too. Some areas 1900 is way more possible than others. Remember that this is not hours spent at work, its hours that can be billed to a client in your 6 or 15 minute increments. In a counseling heavy practice, you can be 'at work' for 10 hours and only have 6 deemed billable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1950 is very easy and doable. I’ve been doing 2400 on average and had a baby several years ago. Still get to spend 6:30am-8:30am and 5:30-8:30pm with child on weekdays (I pick up work again after 8:30pm as needed, maybe 2-3x/week), and usually work 2 hours on Sat and Sunday each. About once a month I put in an extra 6 hours of super focused work time on a late night or weekend to clear my to do list. My husband does all the laundry, cooking on the weekdays, and dishes unless I’m having a very light day. I do 20-30 mins of cleaning a day to keep the house tidy and cover what my husband hasn’t. We have a housekeeper come every other week.

Whether this is possible depends on who you’re working with. Are you in a group that will have a lot of random urgent requests come in at all times of day/weekends/etc? That will be a tougher adjustment.

troll

Or billing BS'er.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I dont understand this. Our company is 95 percent billable hours per week for almost all employees and we easily do this within a year. Why is this hard for an attorney?

Because not all time spent working is billable.
Because you might have short phone calls with 20 different clients in a day, solving big problems quickly, which takes you all day, but each client only expects to be billed for the time they know they were actually talking to you.
Because your company won't pay for all the attorneys' time.
Because you also have to spend time doing administrative stuff like reviewing client bills, mentoring associates, attending CLE programs, developing new clients, and so on, which isn't billable.
Because not all clients will let you bill all time spent traveling.
Etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m considering moving to a law firm from an agency for a partner-track senior associate position. The portfolio looks fantastic/ideal to me but obviously 1900 billable hours (1950 for bonus) is going to mean changes and sacrifice. I have heard horror stories of course but am just weighing options here…
There are lots of moms who are associates and partners who make it work. For those moms at comparable law firms, what does your daily/weekly schedule look like? What do you have to miss? What are your hacks? How much vacation do you take? I’m thinking I can do this for a few years and then go in-house. My 2 kids are in high school and middle school and my husband works remotely.
Thank you!

Back in 2004 I did 3,000 Billable hours. 1,950 is a joke That is 7.8 hours a day billable. But to do 3,000 hours I took zero days off that year, no lunch breaks worked around 8-8 every day on average, no vacation or sick days and did non billable admin work at night or weekends or before work. I had a 2 and 4 year old when did it. That was crazy however, but got me a big promotion. I was normally just 2,000 hours billable which was pretty easy.

All you need is a supporative spouse which I had and the ability to sleep very little. I have sleeping issues and go to bed around midnight every night and wake up aruond 545 am and fresh as a daisy. I can go on 4-5 hours sleep weeks on end. My spouse needs like 9 hours a night or cant function. Me other other hand can do fine on five hours a night so I have 20 hours extra each week of time.

I think the not sleeping is the wildcard. I could do all nighters in my 30s get home at 5am take a 90 minute power nap, get up, have coffee, shower, new clothes and be on road at 715 am no problem. My spouse it would knock her out for a few days.

It sounds like you're the male partner, and I bet you didn't have kids. Or at least you weren't a mom raising kids when you did that.

And was probably an associate on a fat-bill-litigation matter, with all travel time counted, where you could actually fill a full day with billable time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1950 is very easy and doable. I’ve been doing 2400 on average and had a baby several years ago. Still get to spend 6:30am-8:30am and 5:30-8:30pm with child on weekdays (I pick up work again after 8:30pm as needed, maybe 2-3x/week), and usually work 2 hours on Sat and Sunday each. About once a month I put in an extra 6 hours of super focused work time on a late night or weekend to clear my to do list. My husband does all the laundry, cooking on the weekdays, and dishes unless I’m having a very light day. I do 20-30 mins of cleaning a day to keep the house tidy and cover what my husband hasn’t. We have a housekeeper come every other week.

Whether this is possible depends on who you’re working with. Are you in a group that will have a lot of random urgent requests come in at all times of day/weekends/etc? That will be a tougher adjustment.

Early retired Biglaw partner here. I'm sorry, but this is total BS. 2400 billable hours a year is a LOT of hours. It's 46.2 hours a week, 52 weeks a year. Factoring in nonbillable hours, commuting time (most firms have been RTO for a while now), and you're easily at 60 hours a week 52 weeks a year.

I had access to the billable hours at my well known DC law firm as a partner. If you were averaging 2400 hours a year as a lawyer at my firm -- whether associate or partner -- you were a very high biller. I also have to say, at the risk of sounding sexist, that I never knew of a woman lawyer with young children at home who billed at that level, ever. Fathers with young children at home? Yes, sure. Not fair, I know, but reality. The women I knew who worked at that pace either weren't married or didn't have kids. They certainly didn't have young kids.

2400 hours a year also wasn't expected of the lawyers in my firm, far from it, so long as the quality of the work was good. It's also just about at the point where you have to wonder how, shall we say, legitimate the billed hours are you're recording that number on a consistent basis as this poster claims to be. In my nearly 3 decades with Biglaw (associate, counsel, and partner) I can recall billing 2400 hours just one year in my entire career, and that year was a killer -- months away from home at a trial.

Bottom line: whether knowingly or not, this poster is not being truthful, if not to OP then to either her firm or herself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1950 is very easy and doable. I’ve been doing 2400 on average and had a baby several years ago. Still get to spend 6:30am-8:30am and 5:30-8:30pm with child on weekdays (I pick up work again after 8:30pm as needed, maybe 2-3x/week), and usually work 2 hours on Sat and Sunday each. About once a month I put in an extra 6 hours of super focused work time on a late night or weekend to clear my to do list. My husband does all the laundry, cooking on the weekdays, and dishes unless I’m having a very light day. I do 20-30 mins of cleaning a day to keep the house tidy and cover what my husband hasn’t. We have a housekeeper come every other week.

Whether this is possible depends on who you’re working with. Are you in a group that will have a lot of random urgent requests come in at all times of day/weekends/etc? That will be a tougher adjustment.

Early retired Biglaw partner here. I'm sorry, but this is total BS. 2400 billable hours a year is a LOT of hours. It's 46.2 hours a week, 52 weeks a year. Factoring in nonbillable hours, commuting time (most firms have been RTO for a while now), and you're easily at 60 hours a week 52 weeks a year.

I had access to the billable hours at my well known DC law firm as a partner. If you were averaging 2400 hours a year as a lawyer at my firm -- whether associate or partner -- you were a very high biller. I also have to say, at the risk of sounding sexist, that I never knew of a woman lawyer with young children at home who billed at that level, ever. Fathers with young children at home? Yes, sure. Not fair, I know, but reality. The women I knew who worked at that pace either weren't married or didn't have kids. They certainly didn't have young kids.

2400 hours a year also wasn't expected of the lawyers in my firm, far from it, so long as the quality of the work was good. It's also just about at the point where you have to wonder how, shall we say, legitimate the billed hours are you're recording that number on a consistent basis as this poster claims to be. In my nearly 3 decades with Biglaw (associate, counsel, and partner) I can recall billing 2400 hours just one year in my entire career, and that year was a killer -- months away from home at a trial.

Bottom line: whether knowingly or not, this poster is not being truthful, if not to OP then to either her firm or herself.

When I did my 3,000 hours it was mainly one client. Back then it was 500 an hour. I hit them 12 hours a day every day and I was at the client site 12 hours a day. I had a few other minor clients I also bill.

BTW for those sissy men out there the biggest biller was a guy at my company who billed 25 hours one day. We had to adjusted time sheet. He was flying against time zones and legit billed 25 hours that day. My big partner called him out at meeting and said to all of us lazy people who only can bill like 24 hours a day we need to step up gain. He then joked he should put us all on planes flying around globe with time zones in our favor and have us all start working 30 hour days.

BTW in my 8 years billing I always hit 40 hours by Wed night as usually tried to leave by 530 pm on Friday. And airplane travel is non charge. My business trips were killer as still had to bill. So we fly on Sundays or Friday nights a lot. Or take redeyes after a day of work and take suit to work.