PV Champs Finals on Friday night and early Divisionals Saturday

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:10 and under parents: no one cares at that age whether your kid bails on LC champs in favor of summer swim. It is not that deep.

Oh, let me tell you, our club would care big time.

[Anonymous]

I would encourage the parents of the 10 and unders to take a look at the 2022 LC champs 10 and 11 year olds and see where those kids are now as 13-14 year olds. I think you might realize why people keep saying putting heavy stock into a 10 and under’s results is not smart.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would encourage the parents of the 10 and unders to take a look at the 2022 LC champs 10 and 11 year olds and see where those kids are now as 13-14 year olds. I think you might realize why people keep saying putting heavy stock into a 10 and under’s results is not smart.

I don’t know your angle, but the 2022 finals swimmers are now some of the top (if not the very top) swimmers in the U.S.:
https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-105rw.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would encourage the parents of the 10 and unders to take a look at the 2022 LC champs 10 and 11 year olds and see where those kids are now as 13-14 year olds. I think you might realize why people keep saying putting heavy stock into a 10 and under’s results is not smart.

I don’t know your angle, but the 2022 finals swimmers are now some of the top (if not the very top) swimmers in the U.S.:
https://www.pvswim.org/2122meet/22-105rw.html

Yes, there are some swimmers that have maintained a high level, but as I look through the 10 and under finals from 2022 and then look at the highest ranked 13 year olds in this year’s psych sheet I see a lot of different names.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10 and under parents: no one cares at that age whether your kid bails on LC champs in favor of summer swim. It is not that deep.

Oh boy. You must have missed the spirited debate about attending divisionals (effectively an NVSL prelim) if the swimmer did not plan to swim at all stars (akin to finals). Some people were fired up! (Yes, yes, I know NVSL limits each divisional event to two swimmers per team, so it’s not apples-to-apples.)

But there’s a big difference between skipping a long course meet to go to a summer league meet, and signing up for divisionals with the intention of scratching out of all stars. Long course is entirely individual. One kid’s participation in a long course meet does not affect anyone else. It’s only about having a cut time. Taking up a spot in the divisional lineup directly affects another swimmer because spots are limited. Parents ought to be teaching their children to decide what they feel is more important, make a choice, and stick with it. It’s a good life skill. I personally think there’s not a whole lot of value in long course for 10 and under or even 12 and under. I would be wary of a club pushing it hard on the young kids. There is plenty of time to train and compete long course if you are to be a serious swimmer. Let the younger ages be about summer swim in the summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10 and under parents: no one cares at that age whether your kid bails on LC champs in favor of summer swim. It is not that deep.

Oh boy. You must have missed the spirited debate about attending divisionals (effectively an NVSL prelim) if the swimmer did not plan to swim at all stars (akin to finals). Some people were fired up! (Yes, yes, I know NVSL limits each divisional event to two swimmers per team, so it’s not apples-to-apples.)

But there’s a big difference between skipping a long course meet to go to a summer league meet, and signing up for divisionals with the intention of scratching out of all stars. Long course is entirely individual. One kid’s participation in a long course meet does not affect anyone else. It’s only about having a cut time. Taking up a spot in the divisional lineup directly affects another swimmer because spots are limited. Parents ought to be teaching their children to decide what they feel is more important, make a choice, and stick with it. It’s a good life skill. I personally think there’s not a whole lot of value in long course for 10 and under or even 12 and under. I would be wary of a club pushing it hard on the young kids. There is plenty of time to train and compete long course if you are to be a serious swimmer. Let the younger ages be about summer swim in the summer.

I think, though, that there is an appreciable difference between age 8 and age 10. Age 8 doing long course season? Not too important except for experience and liking it. Age 10? My 10yo is working now to land 11yo cuts and take some of the pressure off those early 11yo months when a kid goes from AAA to BB overnight on their birthday. It takes a lot of resilience to climb that hill all over again, especially because as they get older they understand what it means and what it takes. It also means they have to divide their time, attention, and emotional energy between LC and summer swim. Fortunately our summer coach (who's not a college student) and summer team are super supportive of the handful of LC swimmers, but it's still a lot to ask of a kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10 and under parents: no one cares at that age whether your kid bails on LC champs in favor of summer swim. It is not that deep.

Oh boy. You must have missed the spirited debate about attending divisionals (effectively an NVSL prelim) if the swimmer did not plan to swim at all stars (akin to finals). Some people were fired up! (Yes, yes, I know NVSL limits each divisional event to two swimmers per team, so it’s not apples-to-apples.)

But there’s a big difference between skipping a long course meet to go to a summer league meet, and signing up for divisionals with the intention of scratching out of all stars. Long course is entirely individual. One kid’s participation in a long course meet does not affect anyone else. It’s only about having a cut time. Taking up a spot in the divisional lineup directly affects another swimmer because spots are limited. Parents ought to be teaching their children to decide what they feel is more important, make a choice, and stick with it. It’s a good life skill. I personally think there’s not a whole lot of value in long course for 10 and under or even 12 and under. I would be wary of a club pushing it hard on the young kids. There is plenty of time to train and compete long course if you are to be a serious swimmer. Let the younger ages be about summer swim in the summer.

Oh, I agree with you. I also think the child should choose. I told my kid this week that we will follow his lead. If he wants to scratch LC altogether, fine. Not swim finals? Fine. Swim two events on the first day instead of three? Absolutely fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10 and under parents: no one cares at that age whether your kid bails on LC champs in favor of summer swim. It is not that deep.

Oh boy. You must have missed the spirited debate about attending divisionals (effectively an NVSL prelim) if the swimmer did not plan to swim at all stars (akin to finals). Some people were fired up! (Yes, yes, I know NVSL limits each divisional event to two swimmers per team, so it’s not apples-to-apples.)

But there’s a big difference between skipping a long course meet to go to a summer league meet, and signing up for divisionals with the intention of scratching out of all stars. Long course is entirely individual. One kid’s participation in a long course meet does not affect anyone else. It’s only about having a cut time. Taking up a spot in the divisional lineup directly affects another swimmer because spots are limited. Parents ought to be teaching their children to decide what they feel is more important, make a choice, and stick with it. It’s a good life skill. I personally think there’s not a whole lot of value in long course for 10 and under or even 12 and under. I would be wary of a club pushing it hard on the young kids. There is plenty of time to train and compete long course if you are to be a serious swimmer. Let the younger ages be about summer swim in the summer.

I think, though, that there is an appreciable difference between age 8 and age 10. Age 8 doing long course season? Not too important except for experience and liking it. Age 10? My 10yo is working now to land 11yo cuts and take some of the pressure off those early 11yo months when a kid goes from AAA to BB overnight on their birthday. It takes a lot of resilience to climb that hill all over again, especially because as they get older they understand what it means and what it takes. It also means they have to divide their time, attention, and emotional energy between LC and summer swim. Fortunately our summer coach (who's not a college student) and summer team are super supportive of the handful of LC swimmers, but it's still a lot to ask of a kid.

Who is asking this of the kid, and why do they feel so much pressure to make cuts right when they age up when they are only 10 going on 11? That makes me sad. I don’t remember worrying about cut times until at least 12 probably older. My parents had no idea about any of it they just drove me to where I needed to be. Long course is harder on young shoulders. Adults have ruined kids’ sports and that includes the coaches who know they can make more $$ pushing swimmers to do summer training with their club so they don’t “fall behind”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10 and under parents: no one cares at that age whether your kid bails on LC champs in favor of summer swim. It is not that deep.

Oh boy. You must have missed the spirited debate about attending divisionals (effectively an NVSL prelim) if the swimmer did not plan to swim at all stars (akin to finals). Some people were fired up! (Yes, yes, I know NVSL limits each divisional event to two swimmers per team, so it’s not apples-to-apples.)

But there’s a big difference between skipping a long course meet to go to a summer league meet, and signing up for divisionals with the intention of scratching out of all stars. Long course is entirely individual. One kid’s participation in a long course meet does not affect anyone else. It’s only about having a cut time. Taking up a spot in the divisional lineup directly affects another swimmer because spots are limited. Parents ought to be teaching their children to decide what they feel is more important, make a choice, and stick with it. It’s a good life skill. I personally think there’s not a whole lot of value in long course for 10 and under or even 12 and under. I would be wary of a club pushing it hard on the young kids. There is plenty of time to train and compete long course if you are to be a serious swimmer. Let the younger ages be about summer swim in the summer.

DP. Didn't someone post earlier that many older club swimmers will swim Divisionals and then skip All Stars because of Futures? Based on your logic, should all of those older club swimmers give up their spots at Divisionals? If they did, then wouldn't that cause their team to lose at Divisionals, then affecting the team's standing in its division? Seems like it's a tension between blocking a kid from potentially making individual all stars (one last chance to make it) and the team finishing at a lower rank in the division?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10 and under parents: no one cares at that age whether your kid bails on LC champs in favor of summer swim. It is not that deep.

Oh boy. You must have missed the spirited debate about attending divisionals (effectively an NVSL prelim) if the swimmer did not plan to swim at all stars (akin to finals). Some people were fired up! (Yes, yes, I know NVSL limits each divisional event to two swimmers per team, so it’s not apples-to-apples.)

But there’s a big difference between skipping a long course meet to go to a summer league meet, and signing up for divisionals with the intention of scratching out of all stars. Long course is entirely individual. One kid’s participation in a long course meet does not affect anyone else. It’s only about having a cut time. Taking up a spot in the divisional lineup directly affects another swimmer because spots are limited. Parents ought to be teaching their children to decide what they feel is more important, make a choice, and stick with it. It’s a good life skill. I personally think there’s not a whole lot of value in long course for 10 and under or even 12 and under. I would be wary of a club pushing it hard on the young kids. There is plenty of time to train and compete long course if you are to be a serious swimmer. Let the younger ages be about summer swim in the summer.

DP. Didn't someone post earlier that many older club swimmers will swim Divisionals and then skip All Stars because of Futures? Based on your logic, should all of those older club swimmers give up their spots at Divisionals? If they did, then wouldn't that cause their team to lose at Divisionals, then affecting the team's standing in its division? Seems like it's a tension between blocking a kid from potentially making individual all stars (one last chance to make it) and the team finishing at a lower rank in the division?

Isn’t there only one league around here where divisionals results matter for te rankings? For most those are determined only by dual meet records and points scored with divisionals and all stars being entirely individual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10 and under parents: no one cares at that age whether your kid bails on LC champs in favor of summer swim. It is not that deep.

Oh boy. You must have missed the spirited debate about attending divisionals (effectively an NVSL prelim) if the swimmer did not plan to swim at all stars (akin to finals). Some people were fired up! (Yes, yes, I know NVSL limits each divisional event to two swimmers per team, so it’s not apples-to-apples.)

But there’s a big difference between skipping a long course meet to go to a summer league meet, and signing up for divisionals with the intention of scratching out of all stars. Long course is entirely individual. One kid’s participation in a long course meet does not affect anyone else. It’s only about having a cut time. Taking up a spot in the divisional lineup directly affects another swimmer because spots are limited. Parents ought to be teaching their children to decide what they feel is more important, make a choice, and stick with it. It’s a good life skill. I personally think there’s not a whole lot of value in long course for 10 and under or even 12 and under. I would be wary of a club pushing it hard on the young kids. There is plenty of time to train and compete long course if you are to be a serious swimmer. Let the younger ages be about summer swim in the summer.

I think, though, that there is an appreciable difference between age 8 and age 10. Age 8 doing long course season? Not too important except for experience and liking it. Age 10? My 10yo is working now to land 11yo cuts and take some of the pressure off those early 11yo months when a kid goes from AAA to BB overnight on their birthday. It takes a lot of resilience to climb that hill all over again, especially because as they get older they understand what it means and what it takes. It also means they have to divide their time, attention, and emotional energy between LC and summer swim. Fortunately our summer coach (who's not a college student) and summer team are super supportive of the handful of LC swimmers, but it's still a lot to ask of a kid.

Who is asking this of the kid, and why do they feel so much pressure to make cuts right when they age up when they are only 10 going on 11? That makes me sad. I don’t remember worrying about cut times until at least 12 probably older. My parents had no idea about any of it they just drove me to where I needed to be. Long course is harder on young shoulders. Adults have ruined kids’ sports and that includes the coaches who know they can make more $$ pushing swimmers to do summer training with their club so they don’t “fall behind”.

This is true in some cases, but everything depends on the kid. Some summer swimmers will try club swim to please their parents, while others genuinely want to do better the following summer. In the latter case, falling behind will happen at the 11-12 level.

If kids don't see improvement the following summer, most adults will decide that swimming isn't in their kids' future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10 and under parents: no one cares at that age whether your kid bails on LC champs in favor of summer swim. It is not that deep.

Oh boy. You must have missed the spirited debate about attending divisionals (effectively an NVSL prelim) if the swimmer did not plan to swim at all stars (akin to finals). Some people were fired up! (Yes, yes, I know NVSL limits each divisional event to two swimmers per team, so it’s not apples-to-apples.)

But there’s a big difference between skipping a long course meet to go to a summer league meet, and signing up for divisionals with the intention of scratching out of all stars. Long course is entirely individual. One kid’s participation in a long course meet does not affect anyone else. It’s only about having a cut time. Taking up a spot in the divisional lineup directly affects another swimmer because spots are limited. Parents ought to be teaching their children to decide what they feel is more important, make a choice, and stick with it. It’s a good life skill. I personally think there’s not a whole lot of value in long course for 10 and under or even 12 and under. I would be wary of a club pushing it hard on the young kids. There is plenty of time to train and compete long course if you are to be a serious swimmer. Let the younger ages be about summer swim in the summer.

DP. Didn't someone post earlier that many older club swimmers will swim Divisionals and then skip All Stars because of Futures? Based on your logic, should all of those older club swimmers give up their spots at Divisionals? If they did, then wouldn't that cause their team to lose at Divisionals, then affecting the team's standing in its division? Seems like it's a tension between blocking a kid from potentially making individual all stars (one last chance to make it) and the team finishing at a lower rank in the division?

Isn’t there only one league around here where divisionals results matter for te rankings? For most those are determined only by dual meet records and points scored with divisionals and all stars being entirely individual.

Someone posted that MCSL considers only the dual meets, using computer simulations, to determine where summer teams fall between divisions. However, ranking within a division (including winning the division) does include Divisionals in the calculation.

[Anonymous]

NVSL:
Divisionals = Prelims to make IAS

[Anonymous]

Do kids swim NVSL divisionals *knowing for sure* that they won’t swim IAS? If so, why? To try for an NVSL or team or pool record?

I have heard of some kids (a few? One or two? idk) swimming club prelim sessions to get a time and have no intention of swimming in finals. Was told they are swimming prelims to get a time drop. They get a drop and they’re done for the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10 and under parents: no one cares at that age whether your kid bails on LC champs in favor of summer swim. It is not that deep.

Oh boy. You must have missed the spirited debate about attending divisionals (effectively an NVSL prelim) if the swimmer did not plan to swim at all stars (akin to finals). Some people were fired up! (Yes, yes, I know NVSL limits each divisional event to two swimmers per team, so it’s not apples-to-apples.)

But there’s a big difference between skipping a long course meet to go to a summer league meet, and signing up for divisionals with the intention of scratching out of all stars. Long course is entirely individual. One kid’s participation in a long course meet does not affect anyone else. It’s only about having a cut time. Taking up a spot in the divisional lineup directly affects another swimmer because spots are limited. Parents ought to be teaching their children to decide what they feel is more important, make a choice, and stick with it. It’s a good life skill. I personally think there’s not a whole lot of value in long course for 10 and under or even 12 and under. I would be wary of a club pushing it hard on the young kids. There is plenty of time to train and compete long course if you are to be a serious swimmer. Let the younger ages be about summer swim in the summer.

DP. Didn't someone post earlier that many older club swimmers will swim Divisionals and then skip All Stars because of Futures? Based on your logic, should all of those older club swimmers give up their spots at Divisionals? If they did, then wouldn't that cause their team to lose at Divisionals, then affecting the team's standing in its division? Seems like it's a tension between blocking a kid from potentially making individual all stars (one last chance to make it) and the team finishing at a lower rank in the division?

Isn’t there only one league around here where divisionals results matter for te rankings? For most those are determined only by dual meet records and points scored with divisionals and all stars being entirely individual.

MCSL divisional meet results matter for the final division rankings: matter more than any one dual meet in terms of points