Lifting or dragging students

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is he being physical or putting others in danger in anyway or just being annoying?

He is being very annoying, tantrums, screaming, throwing things and not listening at all. She doesn't like his behavior and will pick him up and take him out of the classroom while he is kicking and screaming.

Where are you located? This is a huge liability in most local public school systems.

Interesting. At what age is it not okay to pick up a kid? Daycare kids have to be picked up- or is that not okay also? Should a screaming 8month old never be picked up by a caregiver other than a parent? obviously no, but where is the age line for you? Many public schools have preschoolers,some have early head start is that okay?

Are there many 8 months old in public school?

You will see teachers in PK (especially special education preschool) letting kids climb up on them, but holding and moving a kid is a huge legal risk for the teacher or assistant because it can be considered restraint.

OP, cover your own rear and share what happened with admin. The long term sub is untrained and may not realize how seriously this is taken now.

Plenty of early head start kids in FPCS. I see SPED pre-K teachers lifting kids for diaper changes or to transition from stroller to stander to rest mat all the time. The trainer when we took restraint training said it was fine to pick up a kid if they are the age you would normally pick up which would vary based upon size of child and teacher. Plenty of preschool kids are carried around by family, caregivers and parents.

Again, since you didn’t answer the question: where is your line?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is he being physical or putting others in danger in anyway or just being annoying?

He is being very annoying, tantrums, screaming, throwing things and not listening at all. She doesn't like his behavior and will pick him up and take him out of the classroom while he is kicking and screaming.

Where are you located? This is a huge liability in most local public school systems.

Interesting. At what age is it not okay to pick up a kid? Daycare kids have to be picked up- or is that not okay also? Should a screaming 8month old never be picked up by a caregiver other than a parent? obviously no, but where is the age line for you? Many public schools have preschoolers,some have early head start is that okay?

Are there many 8 months old in public school?

You will see teachers in PK (especially special education preschool) letting kids climb up on them, but holding and moving a kid is a huge legal risk for the teacher or assistant because it can be considered restraint.

OP, cover your own rear and share what happened with admin. The long term sub is untrained and may not realize how seriously this is taken now.

Plenty of early head start kids in FPCS. I see SPED pre-K teachers lifting kids for diaper changes or to transition from stroller to stander to rest mat all the time. The trainer when we took restraint training said it was fine to pick up a kid if they are the age you would normally pick up which would vary based upon size of child and teacher. Plenty of preschool kids are carried around by family, caregivers and parents.

Again, since you didn’t answer the question: where is your line?

DP. I suspect you are trying to nitpick because you would like to find a loophole to justify why it would be okay to lift or drag a disruptive student. The trainer was correct that if you're helping a preschool aged child with a daily living activity such as getting a diaper changed or transitioning out of a stroller, it's okay. It's not okay to lift or drag a student who is having a tantrum or being obnoxious, especially if you're untrained.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is absolutely a legal way to physically remove a disruptive kid. But there is paperwork, regulations, etc. And for good reason—someone transporting a kid needs appropriate training so that no one gets injured. OP’s situation is clearly not following guidelines.

You have way too much faith in the training. The reason for the rules (and the training) isn't safety it's liability.

It’s both.

It's a one day class

One day isn’t enough. I’m trained in this and the school I trained at we got 2 weeks initial training (crisis deescalation & physical intervention training) and 2-3 days retraining every 6 months. Then another 2 weeks up front learning about legalities & paperwork, behavior plans, etc- all the things that go along with it. After that we had to shadow for2-4 weeks before ever being left “in charge” of a child that exhibited problem behaviors. Also everyone in the school had the same training, even the secretaries. You could yell and 5 people would be at your side in under 30 s. I would NEVER take a job that only provided 1 day training- that shows me nobody in that setting has the skills or knowledge to handle the situation or have your back when you need it. That’s just setting yourself & the child up for injury and creating liability for yourself. Also very likely you have a bunch of administrators that won’t have your back if you have to make crisis level decisions. No wonder they can’t get qualified teachers.

[Anonymous]

Plenty of early head start kids in FPCS. I see SPED pre-K teachers lifting kids for diaper changes or to transition from stroller to stander to rest mat all the time. The trainer when we took restraint training said it was fine to pick up a kid if they are the age you would normally pick up which would vary based upon size of child and teacher. Plenty of preschool kids are carried around by family, caregivers and parents.

Again, since you didn’t answer the question: where is your line?

I'm not the original poster you were arguing with, but my line is clear: I will never touch a student unless they are in imminent danger of serious bodily harm. I teach PK-5. I caught a student once as they passed out. I would grab a student running into the street. If a student were injuring themselves I would intervene to make them safe. But a kicking and screaming student who won't do what I ask or move to the next location is not imminent harm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is he being physical or putting others in danger in anyway or just being annoying?

He is being very annoying, tantrums, screaming, throwing things and not listening at all. She doesn't like his behavior and will pick him up and take him out of the classroom while he is kicking and screaming.

Where are you located? This is a huge liability in most local public school systems.

Interesting. At what age is it not okay to pick up a kid? Daycare kids have to be picked up- or is that not okay also? Should a screaming 8month old never be picked up by a caregiver other than a parent? obviously no, but where is the age line for you? Many public schools have preschoolers,some have early head start is that okay?

Are there many 8 months old in public school?

You will see teachers in PK (especially special education preschool) letting kids climb up on them, but holding and moving a kid is a huge legal risk for the teacher or assistant because it can be considered restraint.

OP, cover your own rear and share what happened with admin. The long term sub is untrained and may not realize how seriously this is taken now.

Plenty of early head start kids in FPCS. I see SPED pre-K teachers lifting kids for diaper changes or to transition from stroller to stander to rest mat all the time. The trainer when we took restraint training said it was fine to pick up a kid if they are the age you would normally pick up which would vary based upon size of child and teacher. Plenty of preschool kids are carried around by family, caregivers and parents.

Again, since you didn’t answer the question: where is your line?

DP. I suspect you are trying to nitpick because you would like to find a loophole to justify why it would be okay to lift or drag a disruptive student. The trainer was correct that if you're helping a preschool aged child with a daily living activity such as getting a diaper changed or transitioning out of a stroller, it's okay. It's not okay to lift or drag a student who is having a tantrum or being obnoxious, especially if you're untrained.

No, I am pointing out that blanket statements like “Picking up a kid is a HUGE liability in public schools” don’t work because many teachers and caregivers do it and are required to for many reasons. Much of social media has statements like “never touch another persons kid” to caregivers when the truth is that is not humane treatment in many many situations. Caregiving has many shades of gray and it is frustrating when posters here attempt to make it a black and white issue. Life, especially life young children isn’t so easily categorized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is he being physical or putting others in danger in anyway or just being annoying?

He is being very annoying, tantrums, screaming, throwing things and not listening at all. She doesn't like his behavior and will pick him up and take him out of the classroom while he is kicking and screaming.

Where are you located? This is a huge liability in most local public school systems.

Interesting. At what age is it not okay to pick up a kid? Daycare kids have to be picked up- or is that not okay also? Should a screaming 8month old never be picked up by a caregiver other than a parent? obviously no, but where is the age line for you? Many public schools have preschoolers,some have early head start is that okay?

Are there many 8 months old in public school?

You will see teachers in PK (especially special education preschool) letting kids climb up on them, but holding and moving a kid is a huge legal risk for the teacher or assistant because it can be considered restraint.

OP, cover your own rear and share what happened with admin. The long term sub is untrained and may not realize how seriously this is taken now.

Plenty of early head start kids in FPCS. I see SPED pre-K teachers lifting kids for diaper changes or to transition from stroller to stander to rest mat all the time. The trainer when we took restraint training said it was fine to pick up a kid if they are the age you would normally pick up which would vary based upon size of child and teacher. Plenty of preschool kids are carried around by family, caregivers and parents.

Again, since you didn’t answer the question: where is your line?

DP. I suspect you are trying to nitpick because you would like to find a loophole to justify why it would be okay to lift or drag a disruptive student. The trainer was correct that if you're helping a preschool aged child with a daily living activity such as getting a diaper changed or transitioning out of a stroller, it's okay. It's not okay to lift or drag a student who is having a tantrum or being obnoxious, especially if you're untrained.

No, I am pointing out that blanket statements like “Picking up a kid is a HUGE liability in public schools” don’t work because many teachers and caregivers do it and are required to for many reasons. Much of social media has statements like “never touch another persons kid” to caregivers when the truth is that is not humane treatment in many many situations. Caregiving has many shades of gray and it is frustrating when posters here attempt to make it a black and white issue. Life, especially life young children isn’t so easily categorized.

This thread is about a substitute with no training who is lifting and dragging a child because she doesn't like his behavior. There are no shades of gray here.

[Anonymous]

I think it is fine if not rough

[Anonymous]

Even with the shortage I don't know how these monsters can fire a teacher who is dealing with this bs everyday for 10+ hours and then go home and do 4 more hours of grading for students who are going to carry on the same the next day, learn nothing, and then admin is going to negative reviews the teacher and mess with their caréer progression as they volunteer their butt off for the kids. Well who is going to at least give the altruistic teacher so.e support or security to have a job where they are not attacked and blamed on a regular basis.

[Anonymous]

No it’s not ok.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem arises when kids are commiting violence on teachers but the teacher cannot fight back or even protect themselves ( which looks like fighting back is putting your dukes up to cover your face from a garage of punches). Without a self defense plan you are just making the teachers unsafe. Couple this with the extreme retaliation that teachers already face when we don't fudge the numbers for corrupt admins. ...RETALATION. this is why there is a shortage and it's not getting better as they make conditions worse

This is not the situation at all. The substitute should be fired and you know it op.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it is fine if not rough

No, it is not ok under any circumstance. Substitute teachers are horrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even with the shortage I don't know how these monsters can fire a teacher who is dealing with this bs everyday for 10+ hours and then go home and do 4 more hours of grading for students who are going to carry on the same the next day, learn nothing, and then admin is going to negative reviews the teacher and mess with their caréer progression as they volunteer their butt off for the kids. Well who is going to at least give the altruistic teacher so.e support or security to have a job where they are not attacked and blamed on a regular basis.

Monsters? This is such bull. This is not the reality of most public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are no teachers. We have long term subs in many grade levels.

And posters on this thread who are quick to assert that the misbehaving/out-of-control child who is disturbing the entire class every day NEED TO PAY ATTENTION TO THIS PERSON'S COMMENT ABOVE and consider that THIS is why there are so many teachers leaving. There are no teachers. They have no teachers and just long-term subs in many grade levels. But go ahead, report this person and fight for the out-of-control brat to remain in class, impeding the learning progress of the other kids and the ability the....long-term sub, since there are not teachers...to teach. Great progress, people!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is he being physical or putting others in danger in anyway or just being annoying?

He is being very annoying, tantrums, screaming, throwing things and not listening at all. She doesn't like his behavior and will pick him up and take him out of the classroom while he is kicking and screaming.

Where are you located? This is a huge liability in most local public school systems.

Interesting. At what age is it not okay to pick up a kid? Daycare kids have to be picked up- or is that not okay also? Should a screaming 8month old never be picked up by a caregiver other than a parent? obviously no, but where is the age line for you? Many public schools have preschoolers,some have early head start is that okay?

Are there many 8 months old in public school?

You will see teachers in PK (especially special education preschool) letting kids climb up on them, but holding and moving a kid is a huge legal risk for the teacher or assistant because it can be considered restraint.

OP, cover your own rear and share what happened with admin. The long term sub is untrained and may not realize how seriously this is taken now.

Plenty of early head start kids in FPCS. I see SPED pre-K teachers lifting kids for diaper changes or to transition from stroller to stander to rest mat all the time. The trainer when we took restraint training said it was fine to pick up a kid if they are the age you would normally pick up which would vary based upon size of child and teacher. Plenty of preschool kids are carried around by family, caregivers and parents.

Again, since you didn’t answer the question: where is your line?

DP. I suspect you are trying to nitpick because you would like to find a loophole to justify why it would be okay to lift or drag a disruptive student. The trainer was correct that if you're helping a preschool aged child with a daily living activity such as getting a diaper changed or transitioning out of a stroller, it's okay. It's not okay to lift or drag a student who is having a tantrum or being obnoxious, especially if you're untrained.

No, I am pointing out that blanket statements like “Picking up a kid is a HUGE liability in public schools” don’t work because many teachers and caregivers do it and are required to for many reasons. Much of social media has statements like “never touch another persons kid” to caregivers when the truth is that is not humane treatment in many many situations. Caregiving has many shades of gray and it is frustrating when posters here attempt to make it a black and white issue. Life, especially life young children isn’t so easily categorized.

This thread is about a substitute with no training who is lifting and dragging a child because she doesn't like his behavior. There are no shades of gray here.

The "shades of gray" appear in the context, which is that there are no teachers there, and just long-term subs. Ask yourself why the school can't retain actual teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is he being physical or putting others in danger in anyway or just being annoying?

He is being very annoying, tantrums, screaming, throwing things and not listening at all. She doesn't like his behavior and will pick him up and take him out of the classroom while he is kicking and screaming.

Where are you located? This is a huge liability in most local public school systems.

Interesting. At what age is it not okay to pick up a kid? Daycare kids have to be picked up- or is that not okay also? Should a screaming 8month old never be picked up by a caregiver other than a parent? obviously no, but where is the age line for you? Many public schools have preschoolers,some have early head start is that okay?

Are there many 8 months old in public school?

You will see teachers in PK (especially special education preschool) letting kids climb up on them, but holding and moving a kid is a huge legal risk for the teacher or assistant because it can be considered restraint.

OP, cover your own rear and share what happened with admin. The long term sub is untrained and may not realize how seriously this is taken now.

Plenty of early head start kids in FPCS. I see SPED pre-K teachers lifting kids for diaper changes or to transition from stroller to stander to rest mat all the time. The trainer when we took restraint training said it was fine to pick up a kid if they are the age you would normally pick up which would vary based upon size of child and teacher. Plenty of preschool kids are carried around by family, caregivers and parents.

Again, since you didn’t answer the question: where is your line?

DP. I suspect you are trying to nitpick because you would like to find a loophole to justify why it would be okay to lift or drag a disruptive student. The trainer was correct that if you're helping a preschool aged child with a daily living activity such as getting a diaper changed or transitioning out of a stroller, it's okay. It's not okay to lift or drag a student who is having a tantrum or being obnoxious, especially if you're untrained.

No, I am pointing out that blanket statements like “Picking up a kid is a HUGE liability in public schools” don’t work because many teachers and caregivers do it and are required to for many reasons. Much of social media has statements like “never touch another persons kid” to caregivers when the truth is that is not humane treatment in many many situations. Caregiving has many shades of gray and it is frustrating when posters here attempt to make it a black and white issue. Life, especially life young children isn’t so easily categorized.

This thread is about a substitute with no training who is lifting and dragging a child because she doesn't like his behavior. There are no shades of gray here.

The "shades of gray" appear in the context, which is that there are no teachers there, and just long-term subs. Ask yourself why the school can't retain actual teachers.

I'm a teacher and I can tell you exactly why. Kids are showing up to school woefully underparented and teachers burn out trying to parent them and do the actual job of teaching content. Add to that bad administrators who refuse to discipline and school districts who pile on ridiculous demands and you have the perfect storm.
This does not mean the sub who is lifting and dragging the student gets a pass. She doesn't. This is not the job for her and there are no $16 per hour jobs that are worth potentially injuring a child or yourself or getting arrested.