Rethinking sending kids to college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uh, she still recommends college. Just maybe not spending life savings for BRAND college.

But honestly, BRAND college will still probably be worth it.

Actually, read the book. She does not recommend traditional "college" as it stands now.

NP. Who cares what she thinks? Oh yes some random lady thinks college is not worth it, I better listen to her! You need to be more discerning.

The only thing that needs to change is the COST of college. A college degree is ALWAYS valuable to those who want an education. Find an education you can afford. Nothing new here.

Of course it is valuable. But the way college is marketed, designed, and paid for -- and the ways kids contort themselves to be "attractive" applicants because, as it stands in many circles, college is seen as the ONLY path to success? -- that has to change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As somebody whose kids align with the type of learning that is actually proposed in the description--and having nothing to do with the OP's non-sensical rant, I do see some value in what it says. Both kids in a pretty highly ranked university gaining an absolutely invaluable experience. They each have goals that could not be achieved without the education and experience they are having in college. Without a doubt. I'm assuming the OP was just to get conversation going on this site for rankings, because there is zero value in the post itself other than firing people like me up and responding--exactly what it's intended to do for traffic.

I'm sorry, but what "nonsensical" rant? Nonsensical in that you disagree? It was a cut and paste of the book description with a benign opening. I have no idea why this post is so controversial. This is a college forum. It is OK to think critically about the necessity and role of college. Think about why it fires you up so much, makes you uncomfortable. Nobody is judging you. This is a book that offers a framework for a different type of future. That's all.

Your "benign" intro read a bit like a rant and had nothing whatsoever to do with the description you pasted below it. That makes is nonsensical. I assumed you were just clickbaiting, but I'm beginning to wonder if you're just dim and your kids are following suit. It is very clear you do not have children who have already a college experience. If you did, you would never suggest it was a mistake.

"It is very clear you do not have children who have already a college experience."

I take it your major was not writing-related

[Anonymous]

OP struck a nerve. Geez.

[Anonymous]

I haven’t read the thread but - for
Many many many professions outside of the trades and entrepreneurship, a bachelors degree is the minimum requirement. I agree that college is not for some. I agree that college @ 100k per year which it will be in 2026 - 2027 is ludicrous. So go instate or raise really smart kids with work ethic who will get tons of merit. The measure in society today is percent of population going to college. There’s a reason for that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As somebody whose kids align with the type of learning that is actually proposed in the description--and having nothing to do with the OP's non-sensical rant, I do see some value in what it says. Both kids in a pretty highly ranked university gaining an absolutely invaluable experience. They each have goals that could not be achieved without the education and experience they are having in college. Without a doubt. I'm assuming the OP was just to get conversation going on this site for rankings, because there is zero value in the post itself other than firing people like me up and responding--exactly what it's intended to do for traffic.

I'm sorry, but what "nonsensical" rant? Nonsensical in that you disagree? It was a cut and paste of the book description with a benign opening. I have no idea why this post is so controversial. This is a college forum. It is OK to think critically about the necessity and role of college. Think about why it fires you up so much, makes you uncomfortable. Nobody is judging you. This is a book that offers a framework for a different type of future. That's all.

Your "benign" intro read a bit like a rant and had nothing whatsoever to do with the description you pasted below it. That makes is nonsensical. I assumed you were just clickbaiting, but I'm beginning to wonder if you're just dim and your kids are following suit. It is very clear you do not have children who have already a college experience. If you did, you would never suggest it was a mistake.

+10000

I think it's dim to just follow the crowd like lemmings. What is dim about questioning the role of college, and its cost, in the 21st century? What is dim about being concerned about the havoc the application process wreaks on kids' mental health?

Is Wesleyan professor and legendary critic Richard Ohmann, author of 2024's "Is College Worth It?" (https://www.press.jhu.edu/books/title/11556/college-worth-it) dim?

Is Ana Homayoun, author of the acclaimed new "Erasing the Finish Line: The New Blueprint for Success Beyond Grades and College Admission" dim?

Is Jennifer Wallace, author of Never Enough: When Achievement Culture Becomes Toxic-and What We Can Do About It, dim?

No. They simply dare to question the status quo. Calling someone dim merely because they dare to challenge you, dare to disagree, dare to pose difficult questions that may not sit well? That's the lowest of the intellectual low. Debate on merits, but don't name-call.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The OP poses an interesting question and everyone gets on the defensive and responds in the most passive aggressive way. At this point in time, I’m thinking my kids will still go to traditional colleges. But with the costs rising and how people learn changing, it’s a legit question to ask what college might look like in the future for most people.

Seriously. Interesting to contemplate why this struck such a nerve!! Rethinking the importance of college in this day and age is hardly a wild idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like an excuse to not save for college

Genuinely curious - What is with the blind allegiance to college here? This board is so antsy and active. Honestly wondering why so many hopes are pinned to this and why worth seems to be measured by what college your kid goes to. "Pointy" kids? Even the terminology is dehumanizing. What is the allure?

DCUM is visited by an educated population with high SES. Many people who attain a high SES in the DMV do so by obtaining advanced degrees in medicine, law, STEM, and other white collar fields. They want the want the same success for their DCs. This isn’t hard to figure out so I wouldn’t overthink it. Yes, their DC’s could go in the trades, but it is often a physically hard lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Looks like OP cried to moderator mommy and daddy

[Anonymous]

From the OP's post:

In particular, she urges institutions to better attend to the needs of new-majority learners, often described as nontraditional students, including people from low- or moderate-income backgrounds, people of color, first-generation students, veterans, single mothers, rural students, part-time attendees, and neurodivergent students. She finds ample opportunity for colleges to support learners via alternative pathways to marketable knowledge, including bootcamps, skills-based learning, and apprenticeships, career training, and other types of workplace learning. This work suggests innovation as a means of evolution.

Unless you are one of this cohort of people, get a degree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like an excuse to not save for college

Genuinely curious - What is with the blind allegiance to college here? This board is so antsy and active. Honestly wondering why so many hopes are pinned to this and why worth seems to be measured by what college your kid goes to. "Pointy" kids? Even the terminology is dehumanizing. What is the allure?

Can your kid not get out of the 1200s, is that it, Barbara?

OP here. My kids are in elementary school. Who's Barbara? If you mean Streisand, it's spelled Barbra.

What alternative post-high school path will you encourage your kids to go down, OP? I think the main reason most parents focus on college is the fact that statistically, college educated adults earn much more money than non-college educated adults. We are all hoping to set our kids up for financial stability and success.

Good question! My kids are young but already I see myself getting sucked into the stressful ecosystem of tracking, leveling, rankings -- it comes up in social conversations, on the sidelines at sports, etc. Parents enrolling their kids in club sports to get an edge or Russian math so they're a grade ahead. It just all seems so sad. I don't know that I wouldn't want my kids to go to college -- but I would want to think long and hard about what truly sparks joy for them. Perhaps a gap year. Perhaps a trade school. Perhaps an apprenticeship.

But I am reluctant to just send them into the sausage-grinder where their worth is measured by Naviance and "stats." It feels inhumane.

So don’t do any of these things. You don’t have to do any of this.

Part of the reason that people find this annoying is that you are just conflating everything. Some people supplement a ton from the time their kid is 5. Some people don’t. Some people send their kids to $90k a year schools. Some people send their kids to cheap in-state ones. Dressing everything up as “rat race, poor ROI” and whatever else ignores the vast differences and nuances in each situation.

[Anonymous]

Absolutely, absolutely not.

I strongly, strongly believe even in the trades, a solid business understanding is critical. My view is even if they are working and licensed as a plumber, they need to build themselves up because the physical labor will be too much at a certain point and they need to own/run their own business to protect themselves, mentor other apprentices, etc. That requires education. It may not be in a dorm, but I would expect them to study at NOVA and GMU and get a business degree/accounting degree to understand the financials of their livelihood.

Really, college is also a critical social opportunity. In terms of networks, it is really important to build one with peers and those kids who are doing well are the ones you want to know/date/marry.

[Anonymous]

We recently remodeled and both our plummer and electrician told us they're not recommending a trade for their kids. They want their kids to go to college. A good friends is a driver at UPS, who makes good money as a union member, is paying for his kid to attend college. The jobs don't offer flexibility or mobility and as a PP noted, are physically demanding. Everyone can't be in a trade. While there is demand now, that will taper. Look at what happened to all the folks who jumped into truck driving during Covid. Those jobs dried up as demand ebbed. Despite the current anti-education trend by some, note Barron is at NYU and Elon has a kid at Brown. So college for me, but not for thee.

[Anonymous]

I remember people were posting articles like that when my kids were in preschool. Back then it was all "save the tuition and start them up in their own business." Had we done that, they likely would be among the many who lost their shirts during COVID.

[Anonymous]

Seems like crybaby bītch OP ran away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just read "Who Needs College Anymore? Imagining a Future Where Degrees Won’t Matter" from Harvard Press, by Kathleen deLaski. I will paste the description below, but it really underscored how the whole system preys upon upward-mobility-seeking, striving parents who are bedazzled and deceived by rankings, relying on such soulless statistics (Naviance!) to try to contrive their children to fit a completely unworkable and soon-to-be irrelevant mold. Just reading this board, the anxiety spills off the page -- and I feel it too!! -- and I am seeing how sad, pointless, and hollow it is. I would urge any parent to take a step back and think critically about what you and your child are getting out of this rat race and why you care so very much about a brand-name degree. The world is changing. The cost of a degree is untenable. The ROI is lacking. I am not a p.r. shill, just a parent slowly waking up to the fact that we're doing wrong by our kids (and ourselves) by fixating on this stuff so very much. Description below.

In the wake of declining US university enrollment and widespread crises of confidence in the value of a college degree, deLaski urges a mindset shift regarding the learning routes and credentials that best prepare students for success after high school.

The work draws on a decade of design-thinking research from the nonprofit Education Design Lab as well as 150 interviews of educational experts, college and career counselors, teachers, employers, and learners. DeLaski applies human-centered design to higher education reform, engaging the perspective of end users to search for better solutions. She highlights ten top principles based on user feedback and considers how well they are currently being enacted by colleges.

In particular, she urges institutions to better attend to the needs of new-majority learners, often described as nontraditional students, including people from low- or moderate-income backgrounds, people of color, first-generation students, veterans, single mothers, rural students, part-time attendees, and neurodivergent students. She finds ample opportunity for colleges to support learners via alternative pathways to marketable knowledge, including bootcamps, skills-based learning, and apprenticeships, career training, and other types of workplace learning. This work suggests innovation as a means of evolution.

“The world needs ditch diggers, too.” - Ted Knight
Caddyshack (c) 1980