Z list in action

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC attends a test-in public school where probably 90% of kids in a given year would be considered "unhooked." Due to the excellent academic reputation, there are a handful of private school types with Z-level hooks. As it happens my DC is best friends with one of these kids, so I am seeing this in action. And it's crazy. Kid has decent stats - high SAT, more A's than B's, basic ECs. Realistically kid is probably around the 50th percentile in the grade - eg not really Ivy material.

Kid was deferred from legacy Ivy REA but supposedly someone on the admissions committee personally called their parent to assure them of admission in RD as long as their midterm grades were strong (and, I assume, that a certain check was received...). I know this is how life works in the real world but it's kind of jaw dropping to see it in action.

Private school placements definitely need to be taken with a grain of salt. A lot of those kids would never, ever be at Ivies without Daddy's checkbook. And it's not surprising to hear unhooked kids are sailing through freshman year at Yale, Harvard, etc - the "competition" at these schools isn't all that.

Good luck to the rest of us.

OP, this is absurd. All private school placements should be taken with a grain of salt? And you think the level of competition is low at Ivies? Send your kid to one and get back to us.

DP. Agree with OP. Private schools have their own legacy network allowing access and sometimes even a pipeline. Sure the legacy A list kids get first dibs, but who gets off the waitlist? Private kids. Who is waybiberrepresented at Midd and Williams? Private school kids. There is a hook there, even for those who aren't z list or legacy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

test-in public school where probably 90% of kids in a given year would be considered "unhooked."
excellent academic reputation
high SAT
more A's than B's
basic ECs
probably around the 50th percentile in the grade

- eg not really Ivy material.

High SAT and mid-rank at at a test-in school with an excellent academic reputation, and you think he wouldn't be Ivy material (with exception for the z list angle) because of rank and basic ECs? That's not how it works. Maybe his hook is ultimately gets him in, but don't pretend he isn't academically qualified, because he is.

+1. At my son’s rigorous top NYC private, middle of the class would be the valedictorian almost everywhere else. Throw in some ECs, and you’ve got yourself a perfectly fine Ivy candidate. The legacy status might just tip the scales.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

test-in public school where probably 90% of kids in a given year would be considered "unhooked."
excellent academic reputation
high SAT
more A's than B's
basic ECs
probably around the 50th percentile in the grade

- eg not really Ivy material.

High SAT and mid-rank at at a test-in school with an excellent academic reputation, and you think he wouldn't be Ivy material (with exception for the z list angle) because of rank and basic ECs? That's not how it works. Maybe his hook is ultimately gets him in, but don't pretend he isn't academically qualified, because he is.

"Qualified" meaning can do the work - sure. In the sense of merit - no. There is no way this kid would get into Ivy without the Z list. Zero chance.

I don't have an issue with other hooks. First gen/low income - big hurdles. Athletes - the amount of work required to play a sport at that level is truly impressive.
I
Daddy made a phone call and wrote a check - ick.

I’m broke, too. But if a billionaire’s nice kid gets into Harvard, the billionaire buys Harvard a building, and the billionaire pays for the financial aid for five students, what’s so icky about that?

It’s a lot of easier if Harvard admits a few billionaires than if it hits me up for money I don’t have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:how in the world do you know this OP? I don't believe your post because I don't believe that they would tell you.

Troll

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

test-in public school where probably 90% of kids in a given year would be considered "unhooked."
excellent academic reputation
high SAT
more A's than B's
basic ECs
probably around the 50th percentile in the grade

- eg not really Ivy material.

High SAT and mid-rank at at a test-in school with an excellent academic reputation, and you think he wouldn't be Ivy material (with exception for the z list angle) because of rank and basic ECs? That's not how it works. Maybe his hook is ultimately gets him in, but don't pretend he isn't academically qualified, because he is.

"Qualified" meaning can do the work - sure. In the sense of merit - no. There is no way this kid would get into Ivy without the Z list. Zero chance.

I don't have an issue with other hooks. First gen/low income - big hurdles. Athletes - the amount of work required to play a sport at that level is truly impressive.
I
Daddy made a phone call and wrote a check - ick.

I’m broke, too. But if a billionaire’s nice kid gets into Harvard, the billionaire buys Harvard a building, and the billionaire pays for the financial aid for five students, what’s so icky about that?

It’s a lot of easier if Harvard admits a few billionaires than if it hits me up for money I don’t have.

The thing is that Harvard has plenty of money already. I am fine with them attracting a few more billionaires kids I guess but their endowment is huge as it is and they benefit from massive taxpayer subsidies and all they do is make inequality in this country worse by favoring kids whose parents can afford sports like lax and sailing (I say this as a parent of a kid doing one of those sports). Google all the stuff Malcom Gladwell has written about the Ivy League, it is gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

test-in public school where probably 90% of kids in a given year would be considered "unhooked."
excellent academic reputation
high SAT
more A's than B's
basic ECs
probably around the 50th percentile in the grade

- eg not really Ivy material.

High SAT and mid-rank at at a test-in school with an excellent academic reputation, and you think he wouldn't be Ivy material (with exception for the z list angle) because of rank and basic ECs? That's not how it works. Maybe his hook is ultimately gets him in, but don't pretend he isn't academically qualified, because he is.

"Qualified" meaning can do the work - sure. In the sense of merit - no. There is no way this kid would get into Ivy without the Z list. Zero chance.

I don't have an issue with other hooks. First gen/low income - big hurdles. Athletes - the amount of work required to play a sport at that level is truly impressive.
I
Daddy made a phone call and wrote a check - ick.

I’m broke, too. But if a billionaire’s nice kid gets into Harvard, the billionaire buys Harvard a building, and the billionaire pays for the financial aid for five students, what’s so icky about that?

It’s a lot of easier if Harvard admits a few billionaires than if it hits me up for money I don’t have.

The thing is that Harvard has plenty of money already. I am fine with them attracting a few more billionaires kids I guess but their endowment is huge as it is and they benefit from massive taxpayer subsidies and all they do is make inequality in this country worse by favoring kids whose parents can afford sports like lax and sailing (I say this as a parent of a kid doing one of those sports). Google all the stuff Malcom Gladwell has written about the Ivy League, it is gross.

It's more than just about donations. They want influential and noteworthy families in the Harvard community. Extreme money (because it brings influence) puts you in this category of family. But it's also why they preferentially admit the kids of famous authors or politicians or artists, etc. They want these names under the Harvard brand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

test-in public school where probably 90% of kids in a given year would be considered "unhooked."
excellent academic reputation
high SAT
more A's than B's
basic ECs
probably around the 50th percentile in the grade

- eg not really Ivy material.

High SAT and mid-rank at at a test-in school with an excellent academic reputation, and you think he wouldn't be Ivy material (with exception for the z list angle) because of rank and basic ECs? That's not how it works. Maybe his hook is ultimately gets him in, but don't pretend he isn't academically qualified, because he is.

"Qualified" meaning can do the work - sure. In the sense of merit - no. There is no way this kid would get into Ivy without the Z list. Zero chance.

I don't have an issue with other hooks. First gen/low income - big hurdles. Athletes - the amount of work required to play a sport at that level is truly impressive.
I
Daddy made a phone call and wrote a check - ick.

I’m broke, too. But if a billionaire’s nice kid gets into Harvard, the billionaire buys Harvard a building, and the billionaire pays for the financial aid for five students, what’s so icky about that?

It’s a lot of easier if Harvard admits a few billionaires than if it hits me up for money I don’t have.

Read about Harvard's endowment. It's so massive that they make the school completely free for everyone indefinitely. They don't need anymore billionaires. PP is correct. It's about political influence and branding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a story from our top private too:

Kid was denied/deferred harvard REA.
Kid applied to UChicago ED 2 and was accepted
in June, kid renegaded his UChicago acceptance, and will be going to Harvard, but with NEXT year's class (taking a gap year).

One of the parents is a Harvard legacy, and famous. Family is rich.

There you go.

So, the kid was unethical about ED. And maybe was on the Harvard Z list, tipping him into Harvard.

His UChicago acceptance points to him being academically qualified for Harvard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC attends a test-in public school where probably 90% of kids in a given year would be considered "unhooked." Due to the excellent academic reputation, there are a handful of private school types with Z-level hooks. As it happens my DC is best friends with one of these kids, so I am seeing this in action. And it's crazy. Kid has decent stats - high SAT, more A's than B's, basic ECs. Realistically kid is probably around the 50th percentile in the grade - eg not really Ivy material.

Kid was deferred from legacy Ivy REA but supposedly someone on the admissions committee personally called their parent to assure them of admission in RD as long as their midterm grades were strong (and, I assume, that a certain check was received...). I know this is how life works in the real world but it's kind of jaw dropping to see it in action.

Private school placements definitely need to be taken with a grain of salt. A lot of those kids would never, ever be at Ivies without Daddy's checkbook. And it's not surprising to hear unhooked kids are sailing through freshman year at Yale, Harvard, etc - the "competition" at these schools isn't all that.

Good luck to the rest of us.

OP, this is absurd. All private school placements should be taken with a grain of salt? And you think the level of competition is low at Ivies? Send your kid to one and get back to us.

DP. Agree with OP. Private schools have their own legacy network allowing access and sometimes even a pipeline. Sure the legacy A list kids get first dibs, but who gets off the waitlist? Private kids. Who is waybiberrepresented at Midd and Williams? Private school kids. There is a hook there, even for those who aren't z list or legacy.

But that’s not what she’s saying in the quoted text. Private school kids may have an advantage but that doesn’t mean they’re not extremely qualified. And they certainly don’t lower the level of competition.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Ivy kid certainly didn't have mommy or daddy's checkbook or any hooks or special prep, private counselors. He did have perfect grades, scores and lots of activities he was committed to (but they were fairly common--but cleared he loved them).

His roommate is a middle class public school kid (a very, very smart one).

You really shouldn't make judgements. I had people saying my kid got in on athletics...for a sport he stopped playing freshmen year of HS. People talk out of their *ss.

I am not saying ONLY hooked kids get in. That would be ridiculous. The Ivies wish they had that many billionaire donors.

DC's friend is apparently kind of embarrassed about this. Told DC that everyone will know they are far less qualified than the kids who were flat out rejected in the ED round. And isn't even really that interested in the school, but bowing to what I'm sure is immense family pressure. FWIW my DC told them they should get over it and enjoy. I'm the one who feels annoyed.

Maybe you should reflect on the privileges that you and your kid have enjoyed and stop taking such an extreme interest in the lives of kids who aren’t your own. Just a thought.

[Anonymous]

Harvard is not yielding the genius types - they prefer MIT, Stanford, Caltech. So they need the rich and powerful to stay relevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My Ivy kid certainly didn't have mommy or daddy's checkbook or any hooks or special prep, private counselors. He did have perfect grades, scores and lots of activities he was committed to (but they were fairly common--but cleared he loved them).

His roommate is a middle class public school kid (a very, very smart one).

You really shouldn't make judgements. I had people saying my kid got in on athletics...for a sport he stopped playing freshmen year of HS. People talk out of their *ss.

I am not saying ONLY hooked kids get in. That would be ridiculous. The Ivies wish they had that many billionaire donors.

DC's friend is apparently kind of embarrassed about this. Told DC that everyone will know they are far less qualified than the kids who were flat out rejected in the ED round. And isn't even really that interested in the school, but bowing to what I'm sure is immense family pressure. FWIW my DC told them they should get over it and enjoy. I'm the one who feels annoyed.

Maybe you should reflect on the privileges that you and your kid have enjoyed and stop taking such an extreme interest in the lives of kids who aren’t your own. Just a thought.

+1. Your DC’s friend sounds like a decent kid and I wouldn’t fault people for playing the hand they’ve got in this crazy climate. And sounds like you don’t even know that a check has been promised? I feel your pain, but I’d try to err on the side of giving people the benefit of the doubt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

test-in public school where probably 90% of kids in a given year would be considered "unhooked."
excellent academic reputation
high SAT
more A's than B's
basic ECs
probably around the 50th percentile in the grade

- eg not really Ivy material.

High SAT and mid-rank at at a test-in school with an excellent academic reputation, and you think he wouldn't be Ivy material (with exception for the z list angle) because of rank and basic ECs? That's not how it works. Maybe his hook is ultimately gets him in, but don't pretend he isn't academically qualified, because he is.

+1. At my son’s rigorous top NYC private, middle of the class would be the valedictorian almost everywhere else. Throw in some ECs, and you’ve got yourself a perfectly fine Ivy candidate. The legacy status might just tip the scales.

Sure. Spoken out if entitlement and privilege. And a little delusion.

[Anonymous]

Had a good friend Z lister at my HYP - required gap year and all. Ended up starting and selling business. Family gives more to my Alma mater than anyone else I know. Sure the kids will have better shot. Doesn’t bother me one bit. These schools are so much more generous on FA than when I was there and so much more focus on first gen. Not totally sure why that’s more offensive than a slightly less wealthy kid recruited for sailing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Had a good friend Z lister at my HYP - required gap year and all. Ended up starting and selling business. Family gives more to my Alma mater than anyone else I know. Sure the kids will have better shot. Doesn’t bother me one bit. These schools are so much more generous on FA than when I was there and so much more focus on first gen. Not totally sure why that’s more offensive than a slightly less wealthy kid recruited for sailing.

Agree. How is this any more offensive than those recruited for swimming or sailing or squash or any number of sports that add NOTHING to anyone on a university campus except those who are on the team (but required years and years of an outlay of time and cash by parents)?