Any other clubs besides NCAP going downhill?

[Anonymous]

I was surprised Machine went from Silver (I think) in USA Swimming Club Excellence to no award. I’m so impressed with Machine’s coaches, and they have some of the top female swimmers scattered across the age groups (including one swimmer with six #1 rankings). Did I just miss them on the list? If not, what happened?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised Machine went from Silver (I think) in USA Swimming Club Excellence to no award. I’m so impressed with Machine’s coaches, and they have some of the top female swimmers scattered across the age groups (including one swimmer with six #1 rankings). Did I just miss them on the list? If not, what happened?

It is a pretty competitive field. It might just mean that other clubs improved/surpassed Machine taking their slot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised Machine went from Silver (I think) in USA Swimming Club Excellence to no award. I’m so impressed with Machine’s coaches, and they have some of the top female swimmers scattered across the age groups (including one swimmer with six #1 rankings). Did I just miss them on the list? If not, what happened?

Only five teams made the cut in our area, all are good teams. And I think Machine is a good club. But these others do seem better.

Gold - NCAP, RMSC
Silver - AAC
Bronze - MAKO, ASA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised Machine went from Silver (I think) in USA Swimming Club Excellence to no award. I’m so impressed with Machine’s coaches, and they have some of the top female swimmers scattered across the age groups (including one swimmer with six #1 rankings). Did I just miss them on the list? If not, what happened?

Only five teams made the cut in our area, all are good teams. And I think Machine is a good club. But these others do seem better.

Gold - NCAP, RMSC
Silver - AAC
Bronze - MAKO, ASA

I would guess MAKO will fall out of these rankings when they come out next year because their top swimmer transferred to another club. Machine’s overall lack of depth in terms of the top level swimmers is probably what impacted their spot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised Machine went from Silver (I think) in USA Swimming Club Excellence to no award. I’m so impressed with Machine’s coaches, and they have some of the top female swimmers scattered across the age groups (including one swimmer with six #1 rankings). Did I just miss them on the list? If not, what happened?

Only five teams made the cut in our area, all are good teams. And I think Machine is a good club. But these others do seem better.

Gold - NCAP, RMSC
Silver - AAC
Bronze - MAKO, ASA

I would guess MAKO will fall out of these rankings when they come out next year because their top swimmer transferred to another club. Machine’s overall lack of depth in terms of the top level swimmers is probably what impacted their spot.

It is more than just top swimmers, though? Correct?

Mako still has some really solid swimmers, I think that they might hang in there. But, I have always put Machine and Mako in similar standings in my head.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised Machine went from Silver (I think) in USA Swimming Club Excellence to no award. I’m so impressed with Machine’s coaches, and they have some of the top female swimmers scattered across the age groups (including one swimmer with six #1 rankings). Did I just miss them on the list? If not, what happened?

Only five teams made the cut in our area, all are good teams. And I think Machine is a good club. But these others do seem better.

Gold - NCAP, RMSC
Silver - AAC
Bronze - MAKO, ASA

I would guess MAKO will fall out of these rankings when they come out next year because their top swimmer transferred to another club. Machine’s overall lack of depth in terms of the top level swimmers is probably what impacted their spot.

It is more than just top swimmers, though? Correct?

Mako still has some really solid swimmers, I think that they might hang in there. But, I have always put Machine and Mako in similar standings in my head.

No, its points earned by each club based of their swimmers’ top performances. Here is the document that describes the scoring process. It’s also generally driven by the 15 and older swimmers because if you look at the times identified, even the fastest age groupers aren’t generally hitting those times. Mako has some strong swimmers but I would imagine most of their points were generated by that one outstanding swimmer.

https://websitedevsa.blob.core.windows.net/sitefinity/docs/default-source/clubsdocuments/club-excellence/2025-club-excellence-program-information-requirements.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was surprised Machine went from Silver (I think) in USA Swimming Club Excellence to no award. I’m so impressed with Machine’s coaches, and they have some of the top female swimmers scattered across the age groups (including one swimmer with six #1 rankings). Did I just miss them on the list? If not, what happened?

Only five teams made the cut in our area, all are good teams. And I think Machine is a good club. But these others do seem better.

Gold - NCAP, RMSC
Silver - AAC
Bronze - MAKO, ASA

I would guess MAKO will fall out of these rankings when they come out next year because their top swimmer transferred to another club. Machine’s overall lack of depth in terms of the top level swimmers is probably what impacted their spot.

It is more than just top swimmers, though? Correct?

Mako still has some really solid swimmers, I think that they might hang in there. But, I have always put Machine and Mako in similar standings in my head.

No, its points earned by each club based of their swimmers’ top performances. Here is the document that describes the scoring process. It’s also generally driven by the 15 and older swimmers because if you look at the times identified, even the fastest age groupers aren’t generally hitting those times. Mako has some strong swimmers but I would imagine most of their points were generated by that one outstanding swimmer.

https://websitedevsa.blob.core.windows.net/sitefinity/docs/default-source/clubsdocuments/club-excellence/2025-club-excellence-program-information-requirements.pdf

Fascinating, and it has to be LCM too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a lower cost club? I looked into my local NCAP and it was basically the same price after all the registration, fees, extras as the other clubs around- Machine, Marlins, York. Yes, AAC and RMSC are cheaper, but they don’t pay for lanes and are otherwise subsidized by the local governments, so not a fair comparison.

NCAP is almost $4,000 for the season for 11-12, correct? Marlins is about $3,000 for a comparable training group. Marlins also has so many more options for training - we don't pay nearly $3,000 at 11-12 because we're only swimming twice a week. Is that even an option with NCAP? Like I said, my kid isn't elite. I don't have a beef with NCAP. I just think it's a jackhammer and most kids just need a regular hammer.

I have a high level NCAP 11-12 swimmer and we are paying a little over $4k and my swimmer practices 5-6 days a week. For the poster that mentioned ASA, we are paying roughly the same as we would at ASA (swimmer would be an NDG swimmer there). I do agree that if you have a swimmer who isn’t fully committed to swim as their primary sport and is only in the water a few days a week it is not worth it if you have the option to join a different club that is less expensive and/or has different practice options where cost is different depending on how many days a week you practice.

A high level 11 year old should not be swimming 6 days a week. Maybe if they have gone through puberty - maybe. But that is well above the guidelines and asking for injury.

Couldn’t agree more, but NCAP is concerned with immediate returns, not long term development

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a lower cost club? I looked into my local NCAP and it was basically the same price after all the registration, fees, extras as the other clubs around- Machine, Marlins, York. Yes, AAC and RMSC are cheaper, but they don’t pay for lanes and are otherwise subsidized by the local governments, so not a fair comparison.

NCAP is almost $4,000 for the season for 11-12, correct? Marlins is about $3,000 for a comparable training group. Marlins also has so many more options for training - we don't pay nearly $3,000 at 11-12 because we're only swimming twice a week. Is that even an option with NCAP? Like I said, my kid isn't elite. I don't have a beef with NCAP. I just think it's a jackhammer and most kids just need a regular hammer.

I have a high level NCAP 11-12 swimmer and we are paying a little over $4k and my swimmer practices 5-6 days a week. For the poster that mentioned ASA, we are paying roughly the same as we would at ASA (swimmer would be an NDG swimmer there). I do agree that if you have a swimmer who isn’t fully committed to swim as their primary sport and is only in the water a few days a week it is not worth it if you have the option to join a different club that is less expensive and/or has different practice options where cost is different depending on how many days a week you practice.

A high level 11 year old should not be swimming 6 days a week. Maybe if they have gone through puberty - maybe. But that is well above the guidelines and asking for injury.

Couldn’t agree more, but NCAP is concerned with immediate returns, not long term development

It is their business model. Points and burnout.

[Anonymous]

The problem with the point model is that it doesn’t control for club size

So the smaller clubs that achieve status are the really impressive ones, unlike NCap

[Anonymous]

I’m curious about Machine too. With a club its size, I would expect more stronger swimmers to earn them enough points that they’d at least qualify for bronze.

[Anonymous]

Yay, the NCAP trolls have returned this morning!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a lower cost club? I looked into my local NCAP and it was basically the same price after all the registration, fees, extras as the other clubs around- Machine, Marlins, York. Yes, AAC and RMSC are cheaper, but they don’t pay for lanes and are otherwise subsidized by the local governments, so not a fair comparison.

NCAP is almost $4,000 for the season for 11-12, correct? Marlins is about $3,000 for a comparable training group. Marlins also has so many more options for training - we don't pay nearly $3,000 at 11-12 because we're only swimming twice a week. Is that even an option with NCAP? Like I said, my kid isn't elite. I don't have a beef with NCAP. I just think it's a jackhammer and most kids just need a regular hammer.

I have a high level NCAP 11-12 swimmer and we are paying a little over $4k and my swimmer practices 5-6 days a week. For the poster that mentioned ASA, we are paying roughly the same as we would at ASA (swimmer would be an NDG swimmer there). I do agree that if you have a swimmer who isn’t fully committed to swim as their primary sport and is only in the water a few days a week it is not worth it if you have the option to join a different club that is less expensive and/or has different practice options where cost is different depending on how many days a week you practice.

A high level 11 year old should not be swimming 6 days a week. Maybe if they have gone through puberty - maybe. But that is well above the guidelines and asking for injury.

Couldn’t agree more, but NCAP is concerned with immediate returns, not long term development

It is their business model. Points and burnout.

You are so uninformed. My 12 year old swims 6 days a week for NCAP. A lot of dryland focused on core and shoulder mobility and low yardage….It is not the number of days you practice..it is the amount of yardage….

I am willing to bet there are many kids swimming way more yards than my kid who a practicing fewer days a week…and not racing nearly as fast

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a lower cost club? I looked into my local NCAP and it was basically the same price after all the registration, fees, extras as the other clubs around- Machine, Marlins, York. Yes, AAC and RMSC are cheaper, but they don’t pay for lanes and are otherwise subsidized by the local governments, so not a fair comparison.

NCAP is almost $4,000 for the season for 11-12, correct? Marlins is about $3,000 for a comparable training group. Marlins also has so many more options for training - we don't pay nearly $3,000 at 11-12 because we're only swimming twice a week. Is that even an option with NCAP? Like I said, my kid isn't elite. I don't have a beef with NCAP. I just think it's a jackhammer and most kids just need a regular hammer.

I have a high level NCAP 11-12 swimmer and we are paying a little over $4k and my swimmer practices 5-6 days a week. For the poster that mentioned ASA, we are paying roughly the same as we would at ASA (swimmer would be an NDG swimmer there). I do agree that if you have a swimmer who isn’t fully committed to swim as their primary sport and is only in the water a few days a week it is not worth it if you have the option to join a different club that is less expensive and/or has different practice options where cost is different depending on how many days a week you practice.

A high level 11 year old should not be swimming 6 days a week. Maybe if they have gone through puberty - maybe. But that is well above the guidelines and asking for injury.

Couldn’t agree more, but NCAP is concerned with immediate returns, not long term development

It is their business model. Points and burnout.

You are so uninformed. My 12 year old swims 6 days a week for NCAP. A lot of dryland focused on core and shoulder mobility and low yardage….It is not the number of days you practice..it is the amount of yardage….

I am willing to bet there are many kids swimming way more yards than my kid who a practicing fewer days a week…and not racing nearly as fast

+1, I’m the poster from earlier in the thread that prompted all of this debate over how many days a week my kid is in the water. I know the training my kid is doing and I fully trust the coaching staff. People are acting like my kid is in the water 2 hours a day doing 6000 yards or more with intervals that are unrealistic and that just isn’t the case. They are training appropriately for a swimmer of their age and ability. Is it more than the 12 year olds who aren’t committed to swim as their primary sport and aren’t as fast, sure, but that doesn’t make the training inappropriate. It’s what fits for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m curious about Machine too. With a club its size, I would expect more stronger swimmers to earn them enough points that they’d at least qualify for bronze.

NP, with kids swimming for Machine - some of these things will ebb and flow as kids get older, drop out, whatever. Overall, the culture of Machine doesn't seem as focused on winning as the top priority as it does at other clubs. Obviously they want fast swimmers and have NDG/NTG, but they really emphasize discipline, teamwork, etc. So, I don't consider them "going downhill" - they're still an excellent program. My kids will probably never be super fast, but I appreciate the outstanding coaching and support they get with Machine.