Any other clubs besides NCAP going downhill?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a lower cost club? I looked into my local NCAP and it was basically the same price after all the registration, fees, extras as the other clubs around- Machine, Marlins, York. Yes, AAC and RMSC are cheaper, but they don’t pay for lanes and are otherwise subsidized by the local governments, so not a fair comparison.

NCAP is almost $4,000 for the season for 11-12, correct? Marlins is about $3,000 for a comparable training group. Marlins also has so many more options for training - we don't pay nearly $3,000 at 11-12 because we're only swimming twice a week. Is that even an option with NCAP? Like I said, my kid isn't elite. I don't have a beef with NCAP. I just think it's a jackhammer and most kids just need a regular hammer.

I have a high level NCAP 11-12 swimmer and we are paying a little over $4k and my swimmer practices 5-6 days a week. For the poster that mentioned ASA, we are paying roughly the same as we would at ASA (swimmer would be an NDG swimmer there). I do agree that if you have a swimmer who isn’t fully committed to swim as their primary sport and is only in the water a few days a week it is not worth it if you have the option to join a different club that is less expensive and/or has different practice options where cost is different depending on how many days a week you practice.

A high level 11 year old should not be swimming 6 days a week. Maybe if they have gone through puberty - maybe. But that is well above the guidelines and asking for injury.

5 swims (~10h) a week is very typical for the top MS groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a lower cost club? I looked into my local NCAP and it was basically the same price after all the registration, fees, extras as the other clubs around- Machine, Marlins, York. Yes, AAC and RMSC are cheaper, but they don’t pay for lanes and are otherwise subsidized by the local governments, so not a fair comparison.

NCAP is almost $4,000 for the season for 11-12, correct? Marlins is about $3,000 for a comparable training group. Marlins also has so many more options for training - we don't pay nearly $3,000 at 11-12 because we're only swimming twice a week. Is that even an option with NCAP? Like I said, my kid isn't elite. I don't have a beef with NCAP. I just think it's a jackhammer and most kids just need a regular hammer.

I have a high level NCAP 11-12 swimmer and we are paying a little over $4k and my swimmer practices 5-6 days a week. For the poster that mentioned ASA, we are paying roughly the same as we would at ASA (swimmer would be an NDG swimmer there). I do agree that if you have a swimmer who isn’t fully committed to swim as their primary sport and is only in the water a few days a week it is not worth it if you have the option to join a different club that is less expensive and/or has different practice options where cost is different depending on how many days a week you practice.

A high level 11 year old should not be swimming 6 days a week. Maybe if they have gone through puberty - maybe. But that is well above the guidelines and asking for injury.

Thanks for your concern, but my swimmer is closer to 13 than 12 at this point, is in the water for no more than 90 minutes per practice and is not doing a bunch of garbage yardage. I fully trust the coaching staff and thus far my swimmer has had no injuries to speak of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a lower cost club? I looked into my local NCAP and it was basically the same price after all the registration, fees, extras as the other clubs around- Machine, Marlins, York. Yes, AAC and RMSC are cheaper, but they don’t pay for lanes and are otherwise subsidized by the local governments, so not a fair comparison.

NCAP is almost $4,000 for the season for 11-12, correct? Marlins is about $3,000 for a comparable training group. Marlins also has so many more options for training - we don't pay nearly $3,000 at 11-12 because we're only swimming twice a week. Is that even an option with NCAP? Like I said, my kid isn't elite. I don't have a beef with NCAP. I just think it's a jackhammer and most kids just need a regular hammer.

I have a high level NCAP 11-12 swimmer and we are paying a little over $4k and my swimmer practices 5-6 days a week. For the poster that mentioned ASA, we are paying roughly the same as we would at ASA (swimmer would be an NDG swimmer there). I do agree that if you have a swimmer who isn’t fully committed to swim as their primary sport and is only in the water a few days a week it is not worth it if you have the option to join a different club that is less expensive and/or has different practice options where cost is different depending on how many days a week you practice.

A high level 11 year old should not be swimming 6 days a week. Maybe if they have gone through puberty - maybe. But that is well above the guidelines and asking for injury.

Thanks for your concern, but my swimmer is closer to 13 than 12 at this point, is in the water for no more than 90 minutes per practice and is not doing a bunch of garbage yardage. I fully trust the coaching staff and thus far my swimmer has had no injuries to speak of.

At least one club listed earlier on this thread is known for garbage yardage (not NCAP).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a lower cost club? I looked into my local NCAP and it was basically the same price after all the registration, fees, extras as the other clubs around- Machine, Marlins, York. Yes, AAC and RMSC are cheaper, but they don’t pay for lanes and are otherwise subsidized by the local governments, so not a fair comparison.

NCAP is almost $4,000 for the season for 11-12, correct? Marlins is about $3,000 for a comparable training group. Marlins also has so many more options for training - we don't pay nearly $3,000 at 11-12 because we're only swimming twice a week. Is that even an option with NCAP? Like I said, my kid isn't elite. I don't have a beef with NCAP. I just think it's a jackhammer and most kids just need a regular hammer.

I have a high level NCAP 11-12 swimmer and we are paying a little over $4k and my swimmer practices 5-6 days a week. For the poster that mentioned ASA, we are paying roughly the same as we would at ASA (swimmer would be an NDG swimmer there). I do agree that if you have a swimmer who isn’t fully committed to swim as their primary sport and is only in the water a few days a week it is not worth it if you have the option to join a different club that is less expensive and/or has different practice options where cost is different depending on how many days a week you practice.

Well said. Agree totally. If your kid swims NCAP, it had better be the KID that loves the sport, not the parent. NCAP is more expensive because it’s better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a lower cost club? I looked into my local NCAP and it was basically the same price after all the registration, fees, extras as the other clubs around- Machine, Marlins, York. Yes, AAC and RMSC are cheaper, but they don’t pay for lanes and are otherwise subsidized by the local governments, so not a fair comparison.

NCAP is almost $4,000 for the season for 11-12, correct? Marlins is about $3,000 for a comparable training group. Marlins also has so many more options for training - we don't pay nearly $3,000 at 11-12 because we're only swimming twice a week. Is that even an option with NCAP? Like I said, my kid isn't elite. I don't have a beef with NCAP. I just think it's a jackhammer and most kids just need a regular hammer.

I have a high level NCAP 11-12 swimmer and we are paying a little over $4k and my swimmer practices 5-6 days a week. For the poster that mentioned ASA, we are paying roughly the same as we would at ASA (swimmer would be an NDG swimmer there). I do agree that if you have a swimmer who isn’t fully committed to swim as their primary sport and is only in the water a few days a week it is not worth it if you have the option to join a different club that is less expensive and/or has different practice options where cost is different depending on how many days a week you practice.

A high level 11 year old should not be swimming 6 days a week. Maybe if they have gone through puberty - maybe. But that is well above the guidelines and asking for injury.

Thanks for your concern, but my swimmer is closer to 13 than 12 at this point, is in the water for no more than 90 minutes per practice and is not doing a bunch of garbage yardage. I fully trust the coaching staff and thus far my swimmer has had no injuries to speak of.

The real isssue is that your 12 year old has nowhere to go in terms of increasing practice once they get to high school, so they might not drop might time in high school. Six days a week is a lot for a middle schooler.

[Anonymous]

To get back to the original question...I think NCAP is getting hate because they are expensive and they are supposed to be the best. Other clubs don't necessarily have that reputation, so asking if there are other clubs going downhill is kind of a strange question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a lower cost club? I looked into my local NCAP and it was basically the same price after all the registration, fees, extras as the other clubs around- Machine, Marlins, York. Yes, AAC and RMSC are cheaper, but they don’t pay for lanes and are otherwise subsidized by the local governments, so not a fair comparison.

NCAP is almost $4,000 for the season for 11-12, correct? Marlins is about $3,000 for a comparable training group. Marlins also has so many more options for training - we don't pay nearly $3,000 at 11-12 because we're only swimming twice a week. Is that even an option with NCAP? Like I said, my kid isn't elite. I don't have a beef with NCAP. I just think it's a jackhammer and most kids just need a regular hammer.

I have a high level NCAP 11-12 swimmer and we are paying a little over $4k and my swimmer practices 5-6 days a week. For the poster that mentioned ASA, we are paying roughly the same as we would at ASA (swimmer would be an NDG swimmer there). I do agree that if you have a swimmer who isn’t fully committed to swim as their primary sport and is only in the water a few days a week it is not worth it if you have the option to join a different club that is less expensive and/or has different practice options where cost is different depending on how many days a week you practice.

A high level 11 year old should not be swimming 6 days a week. Maybe if they have gone through puberty - maybe. But that is well above the guidelines and asking for injury.

Thanks for your concern, but my swimmer is closer to 13 than 12 at this point, is in the water for no more than 90 minutes per practice and is not doing a bunch of garbage yardage. I fully trust the coaching staff and thus far my swimmer has had no injuries to speak of.

The real isssue is that your 12 year old has nowhere to go in terms of increasing practice once they get to high school, so they might not drop might time in high school. Six days a week is a lot for a middle schooler.

Nope, the next practice group up, which is where my swimmer will go next season, has longer practices and increased yardage as well as substantive dryland training. People keep focusing on the number of days per week but that really isn't the determining factor; it’s how long each practice is, how much yardage are they doing, what are the intervals. All of that will be different and more challenging for my swimmer next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a lower cost club? I looked into my local NCAP and it was basically the same price after all the registration, fees, extras as the other clubs around- Machine, Marlins, York. Yes, AAC and RMSC are cheaper, but they don’t pay for lanes and are otherwise subsidized by the local governments, so not a fair comparison.

NCAP is almost $4,000 for the season for 11-12, correct? Marlins is about $3,000 for a comparable training group. Marlins also has so many more options for training - we don't pay nearly $3,000 at 11-12 because we're only swimming twice a week. Is that even an option with NCAP? Like I said, my kid isn't elite. I don't have a beef with NCAP. I just think it's a jackhammer and most kids just need a regular hammer.

I have a high level NCAP 11-12 swimmer and we are paying a little over $4k and my swimmer practices 5-6 days a week. For the poster that mentioned ASA, we are paying roughly the same as we would at ASA (swimmer would be an NDG swimmer there). I do agree that if you have a swimmer who isn’t fully committed to swim as their primary sport and is only in the water a few days a week it is not worth it if you have the option to join a different club that is less expensive and/or has different practice options where cost is different depending on how many days a week you practice.

Well said. Agree totally. If your kid swims NCAP, it had better be the KID that loves the sport, not the parent. NCAP is more expensive because it’s better.

It’s more expensive bc the parents are dumb and pay more for nothing! Unless you swim for West- that sure is worth it

[Anonymous]

These threads are a dumb distractions. Spend less time fighting about whose club is lamer and more worrying about the collegiate swimming landscape, assuming that is your aspiration for your DD/DS. It is about to get very very very bleak for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:These threads are a dumb distractions. Spend less time fighting about whose club is lamer and more worrying about the collegiate swimming landscape, assuming that is your aspiration for your DD/DS. It is about to get very very very bleak for them.

So true.

[Anonymous]

NCAP -Tysons was great for my now college club swimmer. Tight knit group and a coach who my swimmer connected with and makes a point to visit on breaks. I’m sure NCAP Tysons is not unique. Swimming has so many positives for teens - if they want to swim competitively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a lower cost club? I looked into my local NCAP and it was basically the same price after all the registration, fees, extras as the other clubs around- Machine, Marlins, York. Yes, AAC and RMSC are cheaper, but they don’t pay for lanes and are otherwise subsidized by the local governments, so not a fair comparison.

NCAP is almost $4,000 for the season for 11-12, correct? Marlins is about $3,000 for a comparable training group. Marlins also has so many more options for training - we don't pay nearly $3,000 at 11-12 because we're only swimming twice a week. Is that even an option with NCAP? Like I said, my kid isn't elite. I don't have a beef with NCAP. I just think it's a jackhammer and most kids just need a regular hammer.

I have a high level NCAP 11-12 swimmer and we are paying a little over $4k and my swimmer practices 5-6 days a week. For the poster that mentioned ASA, we are paying roughly the same as we would at ASA (swimmer would be an NDG swimmer there). I do agree that if you have a swimmer who isn’t fully committed to swim as their primary sport and is only in the water a few days a week it is not worth it if you have the option to join a different club that is less expensive and/or has different practice options where cost is different depending on how many days a week you practice.

A high level 11 year old should not be swimming 6 days a week. Maybe if they have gone through puberty - maybe. But that is well above the guidelines and asking for injury.

Thanks for your concern, but my swimmer is closer to 13 than 12 at this point, is in the water for no more than 90 minutes per practice and is not doing a bunch of garbage yardage. I fully trust the coaching staff and thus far my swimmer has had no injuries to speak of.

The real isssue is that your 12 year old has nowhere to go in terms of increasing practice once they get to high school, so they might not drop might time in high school. Six days a week is a lot for a middle schooler.

Nope, the next practice group up, which is where my swimmer will go next season, has longer practices and increased yardage as well as substantive dryland training. People keep focusing on the number of days per week but that really isn't the determining factor; it’s how long each practice is, how much yardage are they doing, what are the intervals. All of that will be different and more challenging for my swimmer next year.

Agree. I’ve had two NCAP swimmers who started young and they had significant drops in time each time they moved up. As pp just mentioned, it’s not just time in water, it’s multiple dry land sessions, sprint sessions, etc. The biggest part is the other swimmers. My DC loves her group. They do many activities outside of swim and are very close. They enjoy competing together, working out together and swimming together.

[Anonymous]

What makes a great team is your cohort. Not necessarily faster kids, but kids that your kid wants to go and practice with. Positive kids that worry about themselves and not others times, etc.

We have stayed on the same team, sometimes without the best of coaches, but because both my kids love their training partners.

Swimming is a huge grind, and especially in HS you need supportive positive teammates if you continue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is a lower cost club? I looked into my local NCAP and it was basically the same price after all the registration, fees, extras as the other clubs around- Machine, Marlins, York. Yes, AAC and RMSC are cheaper, but they don’t pay for lanes and are otherwise subsidized by the local governments, so not a fair comparison.

NCAP is almost $4,000 for the season for 11-12, correct? Marlins is about $3,000 for a comparable training group. Marlins also has so many more options for training - we don't pay nearly $3,000 at 11-12 because we're only swimming twice a week. Is that even an option with NCAP? Like I said, my kid isn't elite. I don't have a beef with NCAP. I just think it's a jackhammer and most kids just need a regular hammer.

I have a high level NCAP 11-12 swimmer and we are paying a little over $4k and my swimmer practices 5-6 days a week. For the poster that mentioned ASA, we are paying roughly the same as we would at ASA (swimmer would be an NDG swimmer there). I do agree that if you have a swimmer who isn’t fully committed to swim as their primary sport and is only in the water a few days a week it is not worth it if you have the option to join a different club that is less expensive and/or has different practice options where cost is different depending on how many days a week you practice.

Curious which NCAP site you are at. NCAP Prep and ASA are the two closest high quality programs for us.

NCAP Prep Silver II (age 11-14) is $4900
NCAP Prep Silver I (age 12-14) is $5850

NDG at ASA (ages 11-14) is $4264

A pretty significant difference. $700 at age 11, $1600 at age 12. ASA is much cheaper than NCAP Prep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What makes a great team is your cohort. Not necessarily faster kids, but kids that your kid wants to go and practice with. Positive kids that worry about themselves and not others times, etc.

We have stayed on the same team, sometimes without the best of coaches, but because both my kids love their training partners.

Swimming is a huge grind, and especially in HS you need supportive positive teammates if you continue.

+1 This ⬆️