Closing the Education Department

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:By every metric American kids have fallen far behind their peers around the world since the ED was created. From an educational perspective it’s been an unmitigated disaster. It’s been great for the unions though.

+1. The DOE was yet another failure of the Carter administration in the '70s. Before that, we had the Dept of HEW (Health, Education and Welfare.)

This is going on 50 years. Who with a straight face can say that the quality of any level of education in this country has improved in that time?

It's just more bureaucracy. Never a good thing.

You all realize the schools are funded and curricula established at the local level, right?

DOE sets national minimum standards.

The bigger issue is the transfer of public monies to vouchers that are used for private and religious schools, diluting the money available for the public schools, and particularly those who are least able to afford or pursue alternatives.

+100000

Vouchers are a scam. Most students who are poor or are in rural areas can't make use of them because they don't have transportation to the private schools, still can't afford the private schools' tuition, or aren't accepted by the private schools for whatever reason - too stringent academic standards or they have special needs the private school doesn't want to deal with. These are well known facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They control federal student aid. If they go away- a lot of kids are not going to college

Before the ED was created a middle class family could send their kid to a flagship state school without federal “aid.” Let’s get back to that.

When was that? There has always been federal regulation and involvement in education. Prior to the Department of Education it was done at the Department of Health, Education & Welfare.

And states are the ones who raised tuitions and fees at community colleges and state universities, flagships and otherwise.

[Anonymous]

I mean government was meant to help folks but let's face it, badly managed organizations are just that, no matter how well intentioned they are.

I think there's a lot of overhaul needed not just with Education. But again, another "too big to fail" and too big to improve/change/redo situations with Education and all the other government departments.

This is what it looks like for a civilization to fail - when we aren't able to improvement our state and keep wasting money on them. Not agreeing with Trump but he's not wrong to suggest Dept of Education is ineffective all things considered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fantasy land people.
*Getting rid of aid won't make college suddenly cheaper.
*Getting rid of national minimum standards won't force local districts to do more with curriculum.
*Common core was a godsend for students who transferred between school districts/states.
* The ED provides a lot of grant money that no sate is going to want to do without. What are they going to do? Raise taxes in Florida? Unlikely.

MAGA fever dream.

I'm not MAGA and you are right in many ways but we're spending a lot of money on a badly managed federal department. Improvement is always a good thing no matter what it is. Not sure why people are so willing to hold onto the belief that after so many years without improvement that Dept Education (as so many fed departments) may not be running well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I mean government was meant to help folks but let's face it, badly managed organizations are just that, no matter how well intentioned they are.

I think there's a lot of overhaul needed not just with Education. But again, another "too big to fail" and too big to improve/change/redo situations with Education and all the other government departments.

This is what it looks like for a civilization to fail - when we aren't able to improvement our state and keep wasting money on them. Not agreeing with Trump but he's not wrong to suggest Dept of Education is ineffective all things considered.

Sometimes I think of a Tolstoy novel about the failed state of the Russian government in the late 19th century.

[Anonymous]

Much like HHS, if Ed disappeared tomorrow no one would notice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They control federal student aid. If they go away- a lot of kids are not going to college

This. At some point folks will become aware that the Dept of Ed contains the 5th largest lending bank in the US. Shutting it down, like everything else Trump holds out as an easy and obvious fix to his slavering base (who are an absolute minority of Americans), is not going to be a straightforward project.

[Anonymous]

This is actually one of the Trumpian ideas I could get behind. I'm not sure that in the 21st century this is still an "inherently governmental" for the federal government. Having us all pay taxes into a central fund only to have it doled out again makes sense for some things like highways, but not for local schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They control federal student aid. If they go away- a lot of kids are not going to college

This. At some point folks will become aware that the Dept of Ed contains the 5th largest lending bank in the US. Shutting it down, like everything else Trump holds out as an easy and obvious fix to his slavering base (who are an absolute minority of Americans), is not going to be a straightforward project.

So in other words, shutting off the taps for unlimited money to fund outrageous college tuition might actually do tremendous amounts of work at tackling the issue, because if students can't get money schools will have to stop increasing prices and will have to actually cut tuition.

Sounds like a big win to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I feel like this devaluation of education is because women have really excelled at it. Men can’t handle it so they push to discredit it.

Geez. Not everything needs to be about the gender war. Take a break for a day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It has always been a bad faith talking point. Anyone advocating eliminating the Department of Education is a fraud. They are too chickenshit to name the specific programs they would end and how much each state, school district, university, community college, vocational school, etc. depend on them. The problems in public education are mostly state and local disparities under the control of state and local governments. The federal government gives money to help states and schools with minimal requirements for the funds. The department’s total budget is a tiny portion of the federal budget. There literally is no good reason for anyone to support elimination of the Dept of Ed. If anyone supports it, you are justified in disregarding their opinion on everything because they are not a serious person.

You have insulted people but not answered the question. Instead of putting it back on us to explain exactly which program we want to cancel from all that expenditure and red tape at the federal level, why can’t you answer the question and name specific programs that we actually need the federal education department for?

I’m a NP and I agree with Trump that we don’t need it. It seems like an easy decision when even the defenders like the PP can’t name a single thing that we need it for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They control federal student aid. If they go away- a lot of kids are not going to college

This. At some point folks will become aware that the Dept of Ed contains the 5th largest lending bank in the US. Shutting it down, like everything else Trump holds out as an easy and obvious fix to his slavering base (who are an absolute minority of Americans), is not going to be a straightforward project.

So in other words, shutting off the taps for unlimited money to fund outrageous college tuition might actually do tremendous amounts of work at tackling the issue, because if students can't get money schools will have to stop increasing prices and will have to actually cut tuition.

Sounds like a big win to me.

I agree. No other country writes blank checks for students like we do here. It needs to stop.

[Anonymous]

I named what it is good for above, but you ignored it.

Our schools tend to fail not becaue of the ED but because of this insane notion of "local control" over schools. Like it shopuld be different what is taught in Louisiana and California.

If we had actual nationals standards that we all had to agree upon, instead of being able to teach "the war of northern aggression" or whatever some local yokel school board decides is "right," we might have overall better education.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Much like HHS, if Ed disappeared tomorrow no one would notice.

Oh good! I hope you and yours aren't applying for college loans any time soon!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They control federal student aid. If they go away- a lot of kids are not going to college

This. At some point folks will become aware that the Dept of Ed contains the 5th largest lending bank in the US. Shutting it down, like everything else Trump holds out as an easy and obvious fix to his slavering base (who are an absolute minority of Americans), is not going to be a straightforward project.

So in other words, shutting off the taps for unlimited money to fund outrageous college tuition might actually do tremendous amounts of work at tackling the issue, because if students can't get money schools will have to stop increasing prices and will have to actually cut tuition.

Sounds like a big win to me.

Now you get it.
It's the same principle as with healthcare. They can charge thousands for an x-ray because that's what Medicare pays out. They can charge hundreds of thousands for a college education because the DOE will lend it. In sane nations the prices of these things are transparent and much lower.