How to help MCPS' lowest performing students?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The truth is that this is not some Holy Grail that has never been studied or solved. We know what works, but implementation at scale is hard and there's no political will:

At the ES level:
* Universal pre-K
* Wraparound services for families
* 3rd grade retention
* Early intervention for learning differences
* Alternative programs for at-risk kids, with a goal of reintegration
* Vocational programs, and conversely, accelerated programs without gatekeeping

3rd grade retention will not help and hurt kids self esteme. If kids get to third grade and are struggling and MCPS did not provide support, MCPS should be held accountable not the kids.

The BOE cut vocational programs this year. They also in the past cut most of the alternative programs. Parents have to sue for help.

[Anonymous]

Lowering the bar makes the problem worse. Children have a lot of potential but there needs to be accountability to reach standards.

Schools should hire tutors to help the most in need.

It is also clear to me that—particularly in ELA, many teachers are not reading their students’ work and/or are not correcting grammar and other errors. So they give As on essays, sight unseen. When I was in school, teachers used to make corrections. It is a missed learning opportunity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think we can help them by differentiating students based on where they are. That means no trying to do the impossible thing of SIMULTANEOUSLY keeping them on grade level when they're already behind and playing catch up.

Once a student is identified as being behind, MCPS needs to pull them out and focus on intensive 1:1 or small group work to help that child get up to standard. THEN when they are up to standard, you can look to reintegrate them. But MCPS cannot keep pushing kids who are behind grade level through grade level work and classes that they cannot comprehend or engage with.

We have demonized pull outs and differentiation and that needs to stop.

I’m not sure what other people’s experience is on push in vs pull out special ed/eld/resource. I find that push in can be very helpful but it’s often wasted because the classroom’s schedule didn’t align well with the outside teacher’s push in schedule. So they may arrive during a break, video, main lesson instead of when kids need the support on the work. Do others also have that experience?

[Anonymous]

We need a much stronger curriculum for MS and HS English. Those with means right now are supplementing. Those without are stuck with what MCPS offers. The new ES curriculum (Amplify CKLA) is good. We need something similarly strong for MS and HS English.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We need a much stronger curriculum for MS and HS English. Those with means right now are supplementing. Those without are stuck with what MCPS offers. The new ES curriculum (Amplify CKLA) is good. We need something similarly strong for MS and HS English.

We need teachers with time to give feedback. And not just the scoring rubric - I don’t think the students pay attention to it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Universal pre-k for both 3 and 4-year-olds. It’s the only thing. We have to get them in younger. We are getting kindergarteners who don’t know colors, don’t know their names, can’t use the bathroom, can barely talk in their native language. For whatever reason, parents are just not preparing them. We cannot make up that deficit starting at age 5.

Montgomery County already offers FREE pre-K for lower income families with bus service.

How has that been working out for the kids who attend the free MCPS preK program?

The current program is half day only, but outcomes are good. Kids coming out of Head Start are more likely to be identified for early intervention if they need it, and are more ready for kindergarten than kids who are demographically similar but did not attend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need a much stronger curriculum for MS and HS English. Those with means right now are supplementing. Those without are stuck with what MCPS offers. The new ES curriculum (Amplify CKLA) is good. We need something similarly strong for MS and HS English.

We need teachers with time to give feedback. And not just the scoring rubric - I don’t think the students pay attention to it.

PP Yu responded to and I absolutely agree.

[Anonymous]

Return to on-level, honors, and AP classes.

I was a pretty bright kid with undiagnosed ADHD and an undiagnosed processing disability.

When I was a student, I did poorly in honors chemistry and pre-cal and wasn't recommended to take AP or honors physics or AP calculus the next year.

I took on-level physics and I learned so much. It was the right pacing for me, which boosted my confidence, and I got As. My friends in honors/AP were having a harder time.

I also took math electives to fulfill my math credits - including a semester business math class. Which has been one of the most useful classes I've ever taken in my entire educational journey.

We need more differentiated options for kids to meet them where they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t know what else you can do for them. The county has already spent a lot of money and resources trying to help the lowest learners. But you can’t help somebody who doesn’t want to help themselves.

What they need is strong family support, but the school schools help there?

How do you know they don't want to help? Parents of all levels want to help in a way they can, for some it's just trying to stay alive have you met some of these families and know what kind of situation they're in?

Yes, I have. For many (not all) there is no push from the families to do well in school or even GO to school. There is no motivation to perform better.

OP's also asking: "Parents/guardians of these students need assistance too but there is time and language and cultural barriers- getting them information about identifying learning issues, ELL services, attitude/views about learning?"

If what PP says is true, that there is no motivation to perform better, what exactly are the expectations of those parents?

Most parents expect their kids to do well but often when you ask for help, you get blown off or dismissed. So, many parents don't know what to do and give up, especially with language barriers.

Parents are getting blown off by their own kids? Can teachers write on the homework that an adult or older sibling has to review student's homework (even if parent doesn't? Could that make student more serious about their work? This probably already is happening in some classes and some grades but not in all of K-5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The truth is that this is not some Holy Grail that has never been studied or solved. We know what works, but implementation at scale is hard and there's no political will:

At the ES level:
* Universal pre-K
* Wraparound services for families
* 3rd grade retention
* Early intervention for learning differences
* Alternative programs for at-risk kids, with a goal of reintegration
* Vocational programs, and conversely, accelerated programs without gatekeeping

3rd grade retention will not help and hurt kids self esteme. If kids get to third grade and are struggling and MCPS did not provide support, MCPS should be held accountable not the kids.

The BOE cut vocational programs this year. They also in the past cut most of the alternative programs. Parents have to sue for help.

Vocational programs were not cut. There are plenty of CTE programs available and they have an Apprenticeship program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Return to on-level, honors, and AP classes.

I was a pretty bright kid with undiagnosed ADHD and an undiagnosed processing disability.

When I was a student, I did poorly in honors chemistry and pre-cal and wasn't recommended to take AP or honors physics or AP calculus the next year.

I took on-level physics and I learned so much. It was the right pacing for me, which boosted my confidence, and I got As. My friends in honors/AP were having a harder time.

I also took math electives to fulfill my math credits - including a semester business math class. Which has been one of the most useful classes I've ever taken in my entire educational journey.

We need more differentiated options for kids to meet them where they are.

I don’t see it as a problem at the high school level at our school. Our (admittedly large) high school has lots of differentiation. What other than Algebra 1, World History, and English doesn’t have a regular and honors version? And there are two AP English classes for 11th and 12th and unique to our school, higher than honors English for 9th and 10th. Sciences and most Social Studies have regular, honors and AP. Math has multiple tracks and levels. I guess languages don’t start honors until level 3 but it’s a little differentiated by choosing whether you start in say 6th grade or 9th grade. Which schools are not offering multiple levels of core courses?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The truth is that this is not some Holy Grail that has never been studied or solved. We know what works, but implementation at scale is hard and there's no political will:

At the ES level:
* Universal pre-K
* Wraparound services for families
* 3rd grade retention
* Early intervention for learning differences
* Alternative programs for at-risk kids, with a goal of reintegration
* Vocational programs, and conversely, accelerated programs without gatekeeping

The literature on universal pre-k certainly isn't definitive in terms of saying "it works"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Return to on-level, honors, and AP classes.

I was a pretty bright kid with undiagnosed ADHD and an undiagnosed processing disability.

When I was a student, I did poorly in honors chemistry and pre-cal and wasn't recommended to take AP or honors physics or AP calculus the next year.

I took on-level physics and I learned so much. It was the right pacing for me, which boosted my confidence, and I got As. My friends in honors/AP were having a harder time.

I also took math electives to fulfill my math credits - including a semester business math class. Which has been one of the most useful classes I've ever taken in my entire educational journey.

We need more differentiated options for kids to meet them where they are.

I don’t see it as a problem at the high school level at our school. Our (admittedly large) high school has lots of differentiation. What other than Algebra 1, World History, and English doesn’t have a regular and honors version? And there are two AP English classes for 11th and 12th and unique to our school, higher than honors English for 9th and 10th. Sciences and most Social Studies have regular, honors and AP. Math has multiple tracks and levels. I guess languages don’t start honors until level 3 but it’s a little differentiated by choosing whether you start in say 6th grade or 9th grade. Which schools are not offering multiple levels of core courses?

There are also slower than on level tracks for at least math and science. There are also classes designed just for English Language Learners in multiple subject areas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The truth is that this is not some Holy Grail that has never been studied or solved. We know what works, but implementation at scale is hard and there's no political will:

At the ES level:
* Universal pre-K
* Wraparound services for families
* 3rd grade retention
* Early intervention for learning differences
* Alternative programs for at-risk kids, with a goal of reintegration
* Vocational programs, and conversely, accelerated programs without gatekeeping

3rd grade retention will not help and hurt kids self esteme. If kids get to third grade and are struggling and MCPS did not provide support, MCPS should be held accountable not the kids.

The BOE cut vocational programs this year. They also in the past cut most of the alternative programs. Parents have to sue for help.

I do agree that if a kid gets to third grade and still isn't grade-level ready, that it is a failing on MCPS. But I don't agree that socially promoting them is the right move.

We've been doing that and it's not working. At some point, we have to say that if you can't meet the standard, you need to get caught up and will move on when you do.

[Anonymous]

Smaller classes would help a lot.
I have 30 kids per class in highschool with an Honors for all setup and it is impossible to teach- half the class needs remediation, one-quarter are advanced and the remainder are at the right level. Impossible to give the kids individual attention. We are going way slower than we should be but I can’t have half the class failing