Are college freshman struggling more now than decades ago?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I love that everyone answering this thread is literally part of the problem. We, as parents, did this. We are not willing to change it either. God forbid there is an illusion that another kid or group of kids will get a leg up on your kid. Criticize the methods of other parents and the related behaviors without taking any accountability. Declare a handful of schools "worthy" and put down other kids and families who can't or don't want the "top" schools.

Take a look in the mirror, everyone! You're supporting this nonsense, voting for people who support this nonsense, pay obscene amounts of money for it all too. What are you willing to do to stop it? Are you willing to tell your middle school kid that it's ridiculous to travel across the country to play sports? Are you willing to tell your kid that taking 12 APs is too much and you'd like them to get a job, do chores at home, and hang out with siblings instead? Are you willing to forego paid college essay consultants for a less eloquent essay?

I am! I’m absolutely doing all of that. My teens are pretty happy, well-balanced individuals overall. But I am very aware that could change when they get to college.

Be careful assuming that it’s just the high-achieving, helicopter-parented, rat race kids who are unhappy, though. My kids go to a very economically diverse high school, and the kids on the other end of that spectrum are pretty miserable, too. It’s the phones. The culture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love that everyone answering this thread is literally part of the problem. We, as parents, did this. We are not willing to change it either. God forbid there is an illusion that another kid or group of kids will get a leg up on your kid. Criticize the methods of other parents and the related behaviors without taking any accountability. Declare a handful of schools "worthy" and put down other kids and families who can't or don't want the "top" schools.

Take a look in the mirror, everyone! You're supporting this nonsense, voting for people who support this nonsense, pay obscene amounts of money for it all too. What are you willing to do to stop it? Are you willing to tell your middle school kid that it's ridiculous to travel across the country to play sports? Are you willing to tell your kid that taking 12 APs is too much and you'd like them to get a job, do chores at home, and hang out with siblings instead? Are you willing to forego paid college essay consultants for a less eloquent essay?

I am! I’m absolutely doing all of that. My teens are pretty happy, well-balanced individuals overall. But I am very aware that could change when they get to college.

Be careful assuming that it’s just the high-achieving, helicopter-parented, rat race kids who are unhappy, though. My kids go to a very economically diverse high school, and the kids on the other end of that spectrum are pretty miserable, too. It’s the phones. The culture.

Yes, this was my son. And he went to one of those big rah-rah football schools with a reputation for being friendly. He's never had trouble making friends. He still found connecting socially to be really, really hard. Ended up hanging mostly with a couple HS friends in his first year. Gradually got to make more friends through classes and is very happy with the school now.

He's not a big drinker and didn't want to join a frat. Seems it's easier to make "friends" if you are willing to get drunk with people all weekend. A lot of kids don't seem to be able to socialize without being drunk and/or stoned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids at SEC schools like Alabama, Georgia, and Tennessee aren't having the problems described in this thread. They're having fun, loving life, tailgating and watching great football. And the academics are much better than they get credit for. Something to think about as your kids, perhaps as your behest, stress themselves out in high school and make themselves miserable to get into an "elite" college where they'll just be even more stressed out and miserable.

You can’t generalize like this. My neighbor dropped out of Alabama this past weekend and is now taking a gap year. These are schools of tens of thousands of individuals. They aren’t all at tailgates.

This. Struggling happens at all schools. The worst three that we know were at Alabama, USouth Carolina and Tulane. Very bumpy, horrible time, drugs were a new problem added to the mix as a coping mechanism. They all came home and eventually transferred.
Some degree of regular struggle and stress (unexpected grades, imposter syndrome, cut from sorority/group, feel like can’t find true friends) where the kid has found their groove by second semester or even second year has happened at some point to every single college student we know, and happened to almost all of us back in the day. We just didn’t tell our parents or talk about it. We kept it inside or occasionally admitted to friends if we were sure they were struggling too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids at SEC schools like Alabama, Georgia, and Tennessee aren't having the problems described in this thread. They're having fun, loving life, tailgating and watching great football. And the academics are much better than they get credit for. Something to think about as your kids, perhaps as your behest, stress themselves out in high school and make themselves miserable to get into an "elite" college where they'll just be even more stressed out and miserable.

Drop-out rates within 6 years:

Alabama: 28%
Georgia: 12%
UTK: 28%
Penn State: 15%
Pitt: 16%
Umass: 17%

This makes sense to me, because I believe there is a large delta between Georgia and UTK/Alabama.

I won't even list the "high stress" schools because their drop-out rates are at most 5%, and most are just 1%-2%.

You missed the point of the thread. No one said kids aren't passing their classes and graduating at the high-stress schools. Just that they're miserable, many of them not making friends or creating the memories that we so fondly look back on from our college days. Kids don't drop out of Alabama or Tennessee because they're depressed but because they're having TOO much fun. They party and get laid so much that they forget to go to class or study for finals.

No, that's of course not why they drop out. Why are UGA students managing to stay in school? Are you claiming UGA is now a high-stress place?

Are you also saying Penn State is now a high stress place?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love that everyone answering this thread is literally part of the problem. We, as parents, did this. We are not willing to change it either. God forbid there is an illusion that another kid or group of kids will get a leg up on your kid. Criticize the methods of other parents and the related behaviors without taking any accountability. Declare a handful of schools "worthy" and put down other kids and families who can't or don't want the "top" schools.

Take a look in the mirror, everyone! You're supporting this nonsense, voting for people who support this nonsense, pay obscene amounts of money for it all too. What are you willing to do to stop it? Are you willing to tell your middle school kid that it's ridiculous to travel across the country to play sports? Are you willing to tell your kid that taking 12 APs is too much and you'd like them to get a job, do chores at home, and hang out with siblings instead? Are you willing to forego paid college essay consultants for a less eloquent essay?

I am! I’m absolutely doing all of that. My teens are pretty happy, well-balanced individuals overall. But I am very aware that could change when they get to college.

Be careful assuming that it’s just the high-achieving, helicopter-parented, rat race kids who are unhappy, though. My kids go to a very economically diverse high school, and the kids on the other end of that spectrum are pretty miserable, too. It’s the phones. The culture.

Yes, this was my son. And he went to one of those big rah-rah football schools with a reputation for being friendly. He's never had trouble making friends. He still found connecting socially to be really, really hard. Ended up hanging mostly with a couple HS friends in his first year. Gradually got to make more friends through classes and is very happy with the school now.

He's not a big drinker and didn't want to join a frat. Seems it's easier to make "friends" if you are willing to get drunk with people all weekend. A lot of kids don't seem to be able to socialize without being drunk and/or stoned.

+++

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others. Kids have no resilience. They are helicoptered to perfection. If they don’t get an A, the parents call their teacher (or the principal) and complain so now everyone gets an A. In college, when in theory, they fall apart. In weeder classes (which they are all in because their helicopter parents require them to
Major in CS, engineering or pre-meds types of majors) Cs are not uncommon and they freak out.

People are doing their kids no favors with the intense helicoptering. Let them struggle or fail. Let them figure it out!

The number of freshman parents looking for computer science tutors on the Cornell parents Facebook page is shocking.

My kid is studying CS at a supposedly high-stress place...and loves it. Feels like they have finally found their people, joined a frat, playing a club sport (that they stopped playing in 6th grade), doing well academically. My first piece of advice was to not stress about straight As...do well, but a 4.0 isn't that important anymore.

It helps my kid loves CS. The frat has lots of CS kids and it's like a hacker house where they are plugging away on their own projects in their spare time.

My kid knows many kids who are struggling quite a bit because they honestly aren't particularly interested in CS, but their parents pushed them to it...and these kids can no longer brute force their way through these classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree with others. Kids have no resilience. They are helicoptered to perfection. If they don’t get an A, the parents call their teacher (or the principal) and complain so now everyone gets an A. In college, when in theory, they fall apart. In weeder classes (which they are all in because their helicopter parents require them to
Major in CS, engineering or pre-meds types of majors) Cs are not uncommon and they freak out.

People are doing their kids no favors with the intense helicoptering. Let them struggle or fail. Let them figure it out!

The number of freshman parents looking for computer science tutors on the Cornell parents Facebook page is shocking.

Parent of a different ivy kid and a no -ivy t10: tutor request from parents and handwringing over grades is intense on both FB pages and has been for yrs per older parents. There is a large majority of rational parents who say they got in , let them figure it out, land the chopper. It becomes very obvious especially in the compared-to -curve type econ or calc classes who got there on their own and is resilient and who was helicoptered with tutors and parents doing a lot for them. Some of them do not belong at that level of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids at SEC schools like Alabama, Georgia, and Tennessee aren't having the problems described in this thread. They're having fun, loving life, tailgating and watching great football. And the academics are much better than they get credit for. Something to think about as your kids, perhaps as your behest, stress themselves out in high school and make themselves miserable to get into an "elite" college where they'll just be even more stressed out and miserable.

Drop-out rates within 6 years:

Alabama: 28%
Georgia: 12%
UTK: 28%
Penn State: 15%
Pitt: 16%
Umass: 17%

This makes sense to me, because I believe there is a large delta between Georgia and UTK/Alabama.

I won't even list the "high stress" schools because their drop-out rates are at most 5%, and most are just 1%-2%.

You missed the point of the thread. No one said kids aren't passing their classes and graduating at the high-stress schools. Just that they're miserable, many of them not making friends or creating the memories that we so fondly look back on from our college days. Kids don't drop out of Alabama or Tennessee because they're depressed but because they're having TOO much fun. They party and get laid so much that they forget to go to class or study for finals.

No, that's of course not why they drop out. Why are UGA students managing to stay in school? Are you claiming UGA is now a high-stress place?

Are you also saying Penn State is now a high stress place?

UGA students graduate at higher rates than UTK/Bama kids because they were better students to begin with. Check the common data sets. This isn't hard. It still has nothing to do with how happy the students are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love that everyone answering this thread is literally part of the problem. We, as parents, did this. We are not willing to change it either. God forbid there is an illusion that another kid or group of kids will get a leg up on your kid. Criticize the methods of other parents and the related behaviors without taking any accountability. Declare a handful of schools "worthy" and put down other kids and families who can't or don't want the "top" schools.

Take a look in the mirror, everyone! You're supporting this nonsense, voting for people who support this nonsense, pay obscene amounts of money for it all too. What are you willing to do to stop it? Are you willing to tell your middle school kid that it's ridiculous to travel across the country to play sports? Are you willing to tell your kid that taking 12 APs is too much and you'd like them to get a job, do chores at home, and hang out with siblings instead? Are you willing to forego paid college essay consultants for a less eloquent essay?

I am! I’m absolutely doing all of that. My teens are pretty happy, well-balanced individuals overall. But I am very aware that could change when they get to college.

Be careful assuming that it’s just the high-achieving, helicopter-parented, rat race kids who are unhappy, though. My kids go to a very economically diverse high school, and the kids on the other end of that spectrum are pretty miserable, too. It’s the phones. The culture.

Yes, this was my son. And he went to one of those big rah-rah football schools with a reputation for being friendly. He's never had trouble making friends. He still found connecting socially to be really, really hard. Ended up hanging mostly with a couple HS friends in his first year. Gradually got to make more friends through classes and is very happy with the school now.

He's not a big drinker and didn't want to join a frat. Seems it's easier to make "friends" if you are willing to get drunk with people all weekend. A lot of kids don't seem to be able to socialize without being drunk and/or stoned.

He doesn't have to get hammered all the time to be in a fraternity. As long as he's a cool guy who pulls and isn't awkward around girls, he'll get a bid. They won't force him to drink or care if he chooses not to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids at SEC schools like Alabama, Georgia, and Tennessee aren't having the problems described in this thread. They're having fun, loving life, tailgating and watching great football. And the academics are much better than they get credit for. Something to think about as your kids, perhaps as your behest, stress themselves out in high school and make themselves miserable to get into an "elite" college where they'll just be even more stressed out and miserable.

Drop-out rates within 6 years:

Alabama: 28%
Georgia: 12%
UTK: 28%
Penn State: 15%
Pitt: 16%
Umass: 17%

This makes sense to me, because I believe there is a large delta between Georgia and UTK/Alabama.

I won't even list the "high stress" schools because their drop-out rates are at most 5%, and most are just 1%-2%.

You missed the point of the thread. No one said kids aren't passing their classes and graduating at the high-stress schools. Just that they're miserable, many of them not making friends or creating the memories that we so fondly look back on from our college days. Kids don't drop out of Alabama or Tennessee because they're depressed but because they're having TOO much fun. They party and get laid so much that they forget to go to class or study for finals.

No, that's of course not why they drop out. Why are UGA students managing to stay in school? Are you claiming UGA is now a high-stress place?

Are you also saying Penn State is now a high stress place?

UGA students graduate at higher rates than UTK/Bama kids because they were better students to begin with. Check the common data sets. This isn't hard. It still has nothing to do with how happy the students are.

To paraphrase...UTK/Alabama kids aren't dropping out because they are partying so much, they are dropping out because they are dumbf**ks. That about right? Doesn't sound like that tracks happiness or not. I assume many kids who flunk out of college aren't that happy.

Again, do you really believe Penn State and UMass kids are all depressed?

[Anonymous]

People need to stop blaming Covid. Even before Covid the curriculum sucked and kids did not get a good foundation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids at SEC schools like Alabama, Georgia, and Tennessee aren't having the problems described in this thread. They're having fun, loving life, tailgating and watching great football. And the academics are much better than they get credit for. Something to think about as your kids, perhaps as your behest, stress themselves out in high school and make themselves miserable to get into an "elite" college where they'll just be even more stressed out and miserable.

Every school has its share of happy and miserable. I used to teach at a school that was frequently mentioned on lists for its happy students. And they did seem happy - I never even heard a student complain about dining hall food. But it was an incredibly homogeneous college racially, ethnically, and socio-economically. Many kids were bright but didn't take their studies excessively seriously. Anyone who didn't fit the mold HATED it.

Not everybody ranks tailgating and watching great football as high as you think, PP.

[Anonymous]

Yes, they are less independent, less able to focus / pay attention due to doom scrolling and reading headlines, they have fewer life skills, they have been told mental health matters but not actually been raised to be more mentally fit and resilient, they aren’t as good at communicating and problem solving as they just look everything up rather than doing any critical thinking.

[Anonymous]

I feel like our high schools should be talking about all of this more in 2nd semester senior year to get kids "ready"

[Anonymous]

I wasn’t really happy as a freshman 30 years ago. It was okay, but I was homesick and didn’t do my best in class. It got a lot better sophomore year.