Does a dyslexic kid need more than Science of Reading approach in school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is science of reading capitalized? I know OG is evidence-based, but I’m having trouble understanding the difference between SofR and OG?

Thank you!

The new “science of reading” movement, explained https://www.vox.com/23815311/science-of-reading-movement-literacy-learning-loss

"The definition of “science of reading” — a term first used in reading instruction in the 1830s — has evolved over the decades. Today, it primarily refers to cognitive research that pertains to what happens in the brains of strong and poor readers, and is frequently a shorthand for deploying more classroom time on phonics, with its emphasis on learning to sound out words."

I don't totally agree with Vox here. SoR advocates are talking about the research on fluency, vocabulary, morphology, and other aspects of comprehension too.

Orton-Gillingham: Which Aspects are Supported by Research and Which Require Additional Research https://www.thereadingleague.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/TRLJ-Feature-October-2023.pdf

“The Orton-Gillingham Approach (OG) is a direct, explicit, multisensory, structured, sequential, diagnostic, and prescriptive way to teach literacy when reading, writing, and spelling do not come easily to individuals, such as those with dyslexia”

Multisensory is the aspect that requires additional research. The rest of OG lines up pretty well with SoR.

[Anonymous]

PP again. OG instruction is diagnostic and prescriptive in a way that not all SoR-informed instruction can be, because of the teacher-student ratio.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is science of reading capitalized? I know OG is evidence-based, but I’m having trouble understanding the difference between SofR and OG?

Thank you!

The SoR is capitalized because it is referring to a specific methodology to teach reading. OG is capitalized because it is a product marketed to parents and educators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I disagree, the English language has few words that are truly phonetic. Phonics being the best approach to reading and spelling is one of the biggest lies hoisted upon the American Education system, but it is also a huge business. Phonics confuses children most words can not be sounded out for proper spelling, and teaching children multiple rules for reading with phonics because English is not a phonetic language.
As for you saying phonics is the best approach for all children including dyslexic children, shows you know very little about dyslexic children and overall have very little grasp on the English language as a whole.

If the importance of phonics instruction is a lie, what is the truth? No snark at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I have a dyslexic child and work in education, my daughter attends private school and does well, but this is due to the fact that her elementary school class has only eight children in it. The small size, personnel instruction and the fact her third grade teacher had experience with dyslexia due to her niece being dyslexic helped my child immensely. The sad truth is public schools now do a "one size all" approach for children struggling to read. Dyslexics learn to read much better using sight words and a tactile activity for each letter sound. Some of the activities my daughters teacher would do for example is have her write the letter in sand and then form the letter using small beads or shells then go over the letter sound. Another thing that helped my daughter is the English teacher there knew latin and she taught my daughter latin root words, though my daughter is now going into 10th grade she still credits her elementary teachers for being able to read at grade level though a bit slower then some peers. So in short learning many many more sight words then average, tactile instruction for each letter sound and shape, and if you are able to latin root words, my daughter said this made the biggest difference for her and enabled her to be able to read /decode a lot of words. She loves latin so much she is actually taking it in High School because it made such a big difference.
Get your child into a small school or if possible a dyslexic school, I personally was unable to afford a private dyslexic school and there are none in my area but was Blessed to have a small private school with teachers whom cared and had experience with dyslexia.
I have to bite my tongue at work, when I identify a clearly dyslexic student and they give that student the same instruction as any other child needing support. I see the frustration for that child and I know why it isn't working but my hands are tied. These schools today Identify almost anyone with a reading issue as dyslexic but that's just not true and dyslexics require a very specific type of learning method.

This is not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What do you do after OG?

If intensive OG with trained specialists isn't enough, then take out a second mortgage and spend it on Lindamood Bell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm sure it depends on the intensity of dyslexia and when instruction starts, but in your general experience, does a kid with dyslexia need more intensive intervention than a school-wide program that is informed by the Science of Reading?

The Science of Reading seems to be a general concept encompassing phonics-based instruction and the type of instruction that generally benefits dyslexic kids as well as others, but there are a bunch of different Science of Reading curricula out there, and I'm sure they each vary.

We will be doing some out-of-school tutoring with an OG tutor, but within school, do we need to push for more intervention than a Science of Reading approach? The school district uses Science of Reading and seems proud of it, but I'm not clear whether my dyslexic kid will get what he needs with that. Is it more about the level of intervention needed (i.e. more intense one-on-one) and less about needing a different approach, or is he likely to need some kind of specialized approach beyond what a reading interventionist would normally offer? They are dragging their feet about an IEP and talking a lot about the Science of Reading, so I'm trying to understand if an IEP would just be more of the same instruction or would really unlock some different kind of instruction.

By definition, kids who truly have dyslexia respond poorly to intervention, e.g., a school-wide evidence-based literacy curriculum, small group evidence-based instruction, etc. Individual work often is necessary. An IEP would typically afford that or, at least, more frequent and more intense instruction than something school-wide.

If your kid has been tested and has dyslexia/reading disability, the school dragging their feet on an IEP is unacceptable. There are other facets to it besides the intensiveness of the instruction that could be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is science of reading capitalized? I know OG is evidence-based, but I’m having trouble understanding the difference between SofR and OG?

Thank you!

The SoR is capitalized because it is referring to a specific methodology to teach reading. OG is capitalized because it is a product marketed to parents and educators.

Is this correct? I thought Orton Gillingham was a methodology or approach to instruction.
Orton-Gillingham is a direct, explicit, systematic, and sequential approach that incorporates multi-sensory elements. These elements are usually listening, speaking, seeing, and writing.

https://journal.imse.com/structured-literacy-and-the-science-of-reading-implementing-og-in-the-modern-classroom/#:~:text=Unfortunately%2C%20many%20people%20believe%20that,small%20and%20whole%2Dgroup%20lessons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is science of reading capitalized? I know OG is evidence-based, but I’m having trouble understanding the difference between SofR and OG?

Thank you!

The SoR is capitalized because it is referring to a specific methodology to teach reading. OG is capitalized because it is a product marketed to parents and educators.

Is this correct? I thought Orton Gillingham was a methodology or approach to instruction.
Orton-Gillingham is a direct, explicit, systematic, and sequential approach that incorporates multi-sensory elements. These elements are usually listening, speaking, seeing, and writing.

https://journal.imse.com/structured-literacy-and-the-science-of-reading-implementing-og-in-the-modern-classroom/#:~:text=Unfortunately%2C%20many%20people%20believe%20that,small%20and%20whole%2Dgroup%20lessons.

You're both right. Orton Gillingham is a methodology. It's also the name of a product created by IMSE. Other products using the Orton Gillingham methodology are the Wilson Reading System, the Barton Reading and Spelling System, Lindamood Bell's programs, and ASDEC's program, Sounds in Syllables.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I have a dyslexic child and work in education, my daughter attends private school and does well, but this is due to the fact that her elementary school class has only eight children in it. The small size, personnel instruction and the fact her third grade teacher had experience with dyslexia due to her niece being dyslexic helped my child immensely. The sad truth is public schools now do a "one size all" approach for children struggling to read. Dyslexics learn to read much better using sight words and a tactile activity for each letter sound. Some of the activities my daughters teacher would do for example is have her write the letter in sand and then form the letter using small beads or shells then go over the letter sound. Another thing that helped my daughter is the English teacher there knew latin and she taught my daughter latin root words, though my daughter is now going into 10th grade she still credits her elementary teachers for being able to read at grade level though a bit slower then some peers. So in short learning many many more sight words then average, tactile instruction for each letter sound and shape, and if you are able to latin root words, my daughter said this made the biggest difference for her and enabled her to be able to read /decode a lot of words. She loves latin so much she is actually taking it in High School because it made such a big difference.
Get your child into a small school or if possible a dyslexic school, I personally was unable to afford a private dyslexic school and there are none in my area but was Blessed to have a small private school with teachers whom cared and had experience with dyslexia.
I have to bite my tongue at work, when I identify a clearly dyslexic student and they give that student the same instruction as any other child needing support. I see the frustration for that child and I know why it isn't working but my hands are tied. These schools today Identify almost anyone with a reading issue as dyslexic but that's just not true and dyslexics require a very specific type of learning method.

This is not true.

Actually this is very true, Dyslexics have a much higher visual/spatial awareness then others and they do not compartmentalize information so they make connections that many people do not make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I have a dyslexic child and work in education, my daughter attends private school and does well, but this is due to the fact that her elementary school class has only eight children in it. The small size, personnel instruction and the fact her third grade teacher had experience with dyslexia due to her niece being dyslexic helped my child immensely. The sad truth is public schools now do a "one size all" approach for children struggling to read. Dyslexics learn to read much better using sight words and a tactile activity for each letter sound. Some of the activities my daughters teacher would do for example is have her write the letter in sand and then form the letter using small beads or shells then go over the letter sound. Another thing that helped my daughter is the English teacher there knew latin and she taught my daughter latin root words, though my daughter is now going into 10th grade she still credits her elementary teachers for being able to read at grade level though a bit slower then some peers. So in short learning many many more sight words then average, tactile instruction for each letter sound and shape, and if you are able to latin root words, my daughter said this made the biggest difference for her and enabled her to be able to read /decode a lot of words. She loves latin so much she is actually taking it in High School because it made such a big difference.
Get your child into a small school or if possible a dyslexic school, I personally was unable to afford a private dyslexic school and there are none in my area but was Blessed to have a small private school with teachers whom cared and had experience with dyslexia.
I have to bite my tongue at work, when I identify a clearly dyslexic student and they give that student the same instruction as any other child needing support. I see the frustration for that child and I know why it isn't working but my hands are tied. These schools today Identify almost anyone with a reading issue as dyslexic but that's just not true and dyslexics require a very specific type of learning method.

This is not true.

Actually this is very true, Dyslexics have a much higher visual/spatial awareness then others and they do not compartmentalize information so they make connections that many people do not make.

DP - please provide peer-reviewed citations for the above claims.

[Anonymous]

https://drdevon.com/does-your-dyslexic-child-have-a-visual-spatial-super-power/
That is just one of many out there a quick Google search will give you more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I disagree, the English language has few words that are truly phonetic. Phonics being the best approach to reading and spelling is one of the biggest lies hoisted upon the American Education system, but it is also a huge business. Phonics confuses children most words can not be sounded out for proper spelling, and teaching children multiple rules for reading with phonics because English is not a phonetic language.
As for you saying phonics is the best approach for all children including dyslexic children, shows you know very little about dyslexic children and overall have very little grasp on the English language as a whole.

If the importance of phonics instruction is a lie, what is the truth? No snark at all.

I do not think there is a "one size" fits all for reading but I do think phonics is terrible for dyslexic children as they have very little phonics awareness, even if you exclude dyslexics from phonics it's still terrible I work in education and more kids struggle to read and spell as they spell with the way a word sounds due to phonics instruction but only about twenty percent of English is phonetic. Ph makes an ",f" sound ect. I believe currently the best way is go back to memorization reading and learning root latin words. For dyslexic children you need a visual component, I met a man from Germany at a conference in Germany they had him come up with visuals for words like "and" "if" for reading. My daughter as I stated before had a teacher who taught her latin root words this helped her reading immensely so I am obviously bias towards that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: I disagree, the English language has few words that are truly phonetic. Phonics being the best approach to reading and spelling is one of the biggest lies hoisted upon the American Education system, but it is also a huge business. Phonics confuses children most words can not be sounded out for proper spelling, and teaching children multiple rules for reading with phonics because English is not a phonetic language.
As for you saying phonics is the best approach for all children including dyslexic children, shows you know very little about dyslexic children and overall have very little grasp on the English language as a whole.

If the importance of phonics instruction is a lie, what is the truth? No snark at all.

I do not think there is a "one size" fits all for reading but I do think phonics is terrible for dyslexic children as they have very little phonics awareness, even if you exclude dyslexics from phonics it's still terrible I work in education and more kids struggle to read and spell as they spell with the way a word sounds due to phonics instruction but only about twenty percent of English is phonetic. Ph makes an ",f" sound ect. I believe currently the best way is go back to memorization reading and learning root latin words. For dyslexic children you need a visual component, I met a man from Germany at a conference in Germany they had him come up with visuals for words like "and" "if" for reading. My daughter as I stated before had a teacher who taught her latin root words this helped her reading immensely so I am obviously bias towards that.

Just wanted to add also for anyone looking for more information to help a young child with dyslexia for reading there is also dyslexic text "friendly" books out there the font used helps the letters/words not float and move around as much for a dyslexic , and no I have never ran across a school that has these, I did find a few at my local library though, so for parents out there with young dyslexic children I do recommend these, I actually forgot about them until recently thinking of ways public schools could help dyslexics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:https://drdevon.com/does-your-dyslexic-child-have-a-visual-spatial-super-power/
That is just one of many out there a quick Google search will give you more.

This is someone's blog, not peer-reviewed research. Referencing "scientific evidence" without providing actual scientific evidence (i.e., peer-reviewed citations) doesn't make an assertion true. I'm sure this person is well-meaning, but someone with a Ph.D. should know better - said as someone who does have a Ph.D. It's embarrassing.

This journal is a better place to look, though PubMed is more comprehensive: https://link.springer.com/journal/11881