Killing the Purple Line is the prudent economic decision - despite billions spent

[Anonymous]

I am thrilled for the purple line. Sorry not to know but which budget does it come from?
Also if MoCo is experiencing a wealth drop, where are the wealthy going? I would think (maybe) it has an influx of immigrants in Wheaton, Gaithersburg, Silver Spring etc and that is bringing the tax base down, not that wealthy are leaving?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The purple line: the line no one ever wanted, the line that has been delayed by years with multiple billions in cost overruns.

Read this article and tell me it makes sense to complete the project:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/08/09/metro-financial-crisis/

A few excerpts for those outside the paywall:

"The Washington area’s Metro transit system is inching toward financial catastrophe, threatening the region’s quality of life and its efforts to lift up the poor, address climate change and spur a post-covid economic revival.

Billions of federal pandemic-relief dollars are now nearly gone, and the “nation’s subway,” as some boosters call it, is facing massive deficits far into the future."

"Fares would need to jump more than 500 percent to address the kind of deficits the agency has faced, according to a Metro presentation last year, which contemplated a $19.35 one-way fare to Metro Center from Bethesda — or $32.70 from Ashburn.

Metro would never hike fares that high because they would instantly decimate ridership, so slashing service would be more realistic. But that, too, would lead to a downward spiral, Metro officials said."

Here's a solution.

Congestion Tax and make VA and MD drivers pay directly into the coffers of Metro with their speeding tickets.

Solved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give up already! You bought a house that backs up to the abandoned trolly line and you thought that it was your personal private land despite the reality of the situation. You need to accept that it is happening and stop fighting.

If you actually cared about public money then you would realize that a huge part of the purple line cost has been the litigation and delays resulting from the litigation with NIMBY folks. Stop!

True.

What is the point of this thread? The Purple Line is nearly open. It's been decades in the making.

What on earth do you hope to accomplish with your little idiocy on here?

We should probably halt construction on the Purple line and do a few more studies to see if we still need it in the new post-pandemic world. Another decade of delay isn't going go to make a big difference.

[Anonymous]

They need to layoff workers and automate everything.

They get paid way too much money to do nothing. The pensions alone at bankrupting the system.

Pfff just pick up a bunch of dudes from the parking lots of local home Depot and let them run it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Give up already! You bought a house that backs up to the abandoned trolly line and you thought that it was your personal private land despite the reality of the situation. You need to accept that it is happening and stop fighting.

If you actually cared about public money then you would realize that a huge part of the purple line cost has been the litigation and delays resulting from the litigation with NIMBY folks. Stop!

DP. It wasn't an abandoned trolley line - it was a freight rail line, which the county bought in 1986 specifically for the purpose of running light rail on.

One major source of delay and cost increase was lobbying and litigation from Town of Chevy Chase folks. The other major source was Larry Hogan. https://washingtonmonthly.com/2022/06/20/larry-hogan-purple-line-fiasco/

Hogan’s administration also negotiated a contract with a group of private construction firms that contained an unusual provision: In the case of delays lasting more than a year, the companies could abandon the work, no questions asked. When the inevitable delays ensued and the contractors threatened to walk, Hogan’s hand-picked transportation secretary negotiated a new arrangement in which the companies agreed to stay and finish the project for less than $175 million. Then, on the eve of signing the deal, the administration backed away.

Had it gone through with the transportation secretary’s deal, the contractors, not Maryland taxpayers, would have had to absorb the pandemic-related cost increases. And the Purple Line, according to MDOT projections in the spring of 2020, with COVID-19 already raging, would have been up and running, partially by 2022 and fully by the early summer of 2023—giving commuters, hit by high gas prices, more mass transit options.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]OMG, people. The article that just appeared in The Post disclosed how horribly underfunded Metro is. I think OP was trying to point out that our first priority should be to metro, and we’ll be lucky to fund that, let alone deal with Purple Line costs, particularly when MoCo’s wealthier households are being replaced by much lower income families. It is not a pretty picture. [/quote]

The two budgets are separate. Shows what you know! So don't "OMG people" us when you know absolutely nothing about how these projects work and how they're funded.

And as a resident of MoCo's wealthier area, no, we're not going anywhere. So many people are ready to throw down 2-5M for a house in my neighborhood, there is no inventory, and there hasn't been for YEARS.

If you're the anti-Elrich, anti-liberal MoCo poster... sorry to tell you, we're doing pretty well here.
[/quote]

I’m the “OMG, people” poster replying here because I can’t believe how you attacked me. First, I am not the other “anti-liberal” poster you mentioned.

I do live in a nice neighborhood in Bethesda, but alas we’re not quite in the $3M to $4M range. For facts on wealthy households leaving MD, refer to state figures. MoCo tends to ignore this part of the story.

As for “two separate budgets,” again, OMG! All of this money comes from our taxes! The point is, taxes will need to go up to pay for all of these projects, thereby either pushing more people out of MoCo or depressing the value of our real estate investments.

[Anonymous]

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]OMG, people. The article that just appeared in The Post disclosed how horribly underfunded Metro is. I think OP was trying to point out that our first priority should be to metro, and we’ll be lucky to fund that, let alone deal with Purple Line costs, particularly when MoCo’s wealthier households are being replaced by much lower income families. It is not a pretty picture. [/quote]

The two budgets are separate. Shows what you know! So don't "OMG people" us when you know absolutely nothing about how these projects work and how they're funded.

And as a resident of MoCo's wealthier area, no, we're not going anywhere. So many people are ready to throw down 2-5M for a house in my neighborhood, there is no inventory, and there hasn't been for YEARS.

If you're the anti-Elrich, anti-liberal MoCo poster... sorry to tell you, we're doing pretty well here.
[/quote]

I’m the “OMG, people” poster replying here because I can’t believe how you attacked me. First, I am not the other “anti-liberal” poster you mentioned.

I do live in a nice neighborhood in Bethesda, but alas we’re not quite in the $3M to $4M range. For facts on wealthy households leaving MD, refer to state figures. MoCo tends to ignore this part of the story.

As for “two separate budgets,” again, OMG! All of this money comes from our taxes! The point is, [b]taxes will need to go up to pay for all of these projects[/b], thereby either pushing more people out of MoCo or depressing the value of our real estate investments. [/quote]

1. Yes, you're right. Government uses taxes to pay for services.
2. No, taxes will not need to go up. Funding currently used for X could instead be used for Y.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you kidding? Bethesda to UMD? We want it. Thousands of college students, university profs and employees are eagerly waiting for it.

Don't be stupid.

oh yes, all those UMD students commuting from downtown Bethesda..

Driving, even with traffic, will be faster

[Anonymous]

There is no way that current metro system is viable after covid and the rise of work from home. All planned expansions need to be halted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you kidding? Bethesda to UMD? We want it. Thousands of college students, university profs and employees are eagerly waiting for it.

Don't be stupid.

oh yes, all those UMD students commuting from downtown Bethesda..

Driving, even with traffic, will be faster

Yes.

But if you want to drive, you will still be able to do so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no way that current metro system is viable after covid and the rise of work from home. All planned expansions need to be halted.

Funny, that's what I'm saying about the roads.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no way that current metro system is viable after covid and the rise of work from home. All planned expansions need to be halted.

crazy because numbers are approaching pre-pandemic levels

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The purple line isn’t Metro.

Way to ruin OP's entire premise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Give up already! You bought a house that backs up to the abandoned trolly line and you thought that it was your personal private land despite the reality of the situation. You need to accept that it is happening and stop fighting.

If you actually cared about public money then you would realize that a huge part of the purple line cost has been the litigation and delays resulting from the litigation with NIMBY folks. Stop!

DP. It wasn't an abandoned trolley line - it was a freight rail line, which the county bought in 1986 specifically for the purpose of running light rail on.

One major source of delay and cost increase was lobbying and litigation from Town of Chevy Chase folks. The other major source was Larry Hogan. https://washingtonmonthly.com/2022/06/20/larry-hogan-purple-line-fiasco/

Hogan’s administration also negotiated a contract with a group of private construction firms that contained an unusual provision: In the case of delays lasting more than a year, the companies could abandon the work, no questions asked. When the inevitable delays ensued and the contractors threatened to walk, Hogan’s hand-picked transportation secretary negotiated a new arrangement in which the companies agreed to stay and finish the project for less than $175 million. Then, on the eve of signing the deal, the administration backed away.

Had it gone through with the transportation secretary’s deal, the contractors, not Maryland taxpayers, would have had to absorb the pandemic-related cost increases. And the Purple Line, according to MDOT projections in the spring of 2020, with COVID-19 already raging, would have been up and running, partially by 2022 and fully by the early summer of 2023—giving commuters, hit by high gas prices, more mass transit options.

The lawsuits were predictable and in fact predicted. The PPP and the contract terms were known before funding was voted on. What wasn’t known were the lengthy metrorail and street closures (at least the extent) or the massive cost overruns or delays. This project barely penciled before all of the unknowns and yet you’re on here complaining about the knowns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There is no way that current metro system is viable after covid and the rise of work from home. All planned expansions need to be halted.

crazy because numbers are approaching pre-pandemic levels

Only because we are allowing virus laden tourists back into the area.