Why won't FCPS kick kids out of AAP or re-evaluate them annually?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't this weed out the kids who were prepped in? My kid is definitely in classes with kids who don't belong in AAP but because they don't get counseled out or reevaluated annually, they're just stuck there and it's (a) hard for those kids and (b) annoying for the truly advanced kids who they are holding behind.

You wouldn't be weeding out prepped kids, you would be weeding out the kids that are referred by parents.
On the whole, test scores reflect ability whether it is prepped or not. An unprepared kid can underperform but a well prepared kid will not outperform.
Don't excuse your child's failure with the fact that other kids have studied.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are absolutely NOT supposed to prepare for tests like NNAT and COGAT. You can ABSOLUTELY trick those tests into believing your child is gifted because you have taught your child the strategies to answer the questions as opposed to actually gifted children who can intuitively answer the questions without any help at all. You don't see the difference there?

The thing is, almost everyone preps for these so if you don't, you are at a disadvantage. Have you been to lotte in Fairfax? They sell cogat prep books. If you think people aren't prepping their kids then you are deluded. Also, AAP is no a gifted program. It's an advanced academic program. There is a difference.

In some schools prepping is common place but I don’t think that most schools have that issue. Most people don’t prep for these tests. Most people don’t prep for the IAAT. Most people don’t prep for iReadys. Most people don’t prep for the SOL. There are a limited number of schools that are far more concentrated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't this weed out the kids who were prepped in? My kid is definitely in classes with kids who don't belong in AAP but because they don't get counseled out or reevaluated annually, they're just stuck there and it's (a) hard for those kids and (b) annoying for the truly advanced kids who they are holding behind.

You wouldn't be weeding out prepped kids, you would be weeding out the kids that are referred by parents.
On the whole, test scores reflect ability whether it is prepped or not. An unprepared kid can underperform but a well prepared kid will not outperform.
Don't excuse your child's failure with the fact that other kids have studied.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are absolutely NOT supposed to prepare for tests like NNAT and COGAT. You can ABSOLUTELY trick those tests into believing your child is gifted because you have taught your child the strategies to answer the questions as opposed to actually gifted children who can intuitively answer the questions without any help at all. You don't see the difference there?

The thing is, almost everyone preps for these so if you don't, you are at a disadvantage. Have you been to lotte in Fairfax? They sell cogat prep books. If you think people aren't prepping their kids then you are deluded. Also, AAP is no a gifted program. It's an advanced academic program. There is a difference.

No, that’s nonsense, *almost* everyone does not prep. There are some who do but don’t justify your cheating w that BS that everyone does it so you do too to keep up. I have 2 kids in AAP and have no idea what “the lotte in Fairfax” is.

You're probably not at a high ses school and don't shop Asian stores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't this weed out the kids who were prepped in? My kid is definitely in classes with kids who don't belong in AAP but because they don't get counseled out or reevaluated annually, they're just stuck there and it's (a) hard for those kids and (b) annoying for the truly advanced kids who they are holding behind.

You wouldn't be weeding out prepped kids, you would be weeding out the kids that are referred by parents.
On the whole, test scores reflect ability whether it is prepped or not. An unprepared kid can underperform but a well prepared kid will not outperform.
Don't excuse your child's failure with the fact that other kids have studied.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are absolutely NOT supposed to prepare for tests like NNAT and COGAT. You can ABSOLUTELY trick those tests into believing your child is gifted because you have taught your child the strategies to answer the questions as opposed to actually gifted children who can intuitively answer the questions without any help at all. You don't see the difference there?

Isn't this why the teacher rating scale and other materials weigh equally with test scores? Little Susie might be a super thinker but do terrible on tests. Or Larla may ace tests but stuggle with day-to-day paces. Not everything depends on the COGAT or NNAT score. Thankfully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't this weed out the kids who were prepped in? My kid is definitely in classes with kids who don't belong in AAP but because they don't get counseled out or reevaluated annually, they're just stuck there and it's (a) hard for those kids and (b) annoying for the truly advanced kids who they are holding behind.

You wouldn't be weeding out prepped kids, you would be weeding out the kids that are referred by parents.
On the whole, test scores reflect ability whether it is prepped or not. An unprepared kid can underperform but a well prepared kid will not outperform.
Don't excuse your child's failure with the fact that other kids have studied.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are absolutely NOT supposed to prepare for tests like NNAT and COGAT. You can ABSOLUTELY trick those tests into believing your child is gifted because you have taught your child the strategies to answer the questions as opposed to actually gifted children who can intuitively answer the questions without any help at all. You don't see the difference there?

The thing is, almost everyone preps for these so if you don't, you are at a disadvantage. Have you been to lotte in Fairfax? They sell cogat prep books. If you think people aren't prepping their kids then you are deluded. Also, AAP is no a gifted program. It's an advanced academic program. There is a difference.

No, that’s nonsense, *almost* everyone does not prep. There are some who do but don’t justify your cheating w that BS that everyone does it so you do too to keep up. I have 2 kids in AAP and have no idea what “the lotte in Fairfax” is.

You're probably not at a high ses school and don't shop Asian stores.

My kids are in AAP at Haycock and Longfellow. Non-preppers still exist even in this high SES world.

[Anonymous]

Because the prices is such a time suck for teachers already. Any kids who got kicked out would appeal. Nobody has that kind of time in public school.

[Anonymous]

Btw what “other material”’is normally submitted with the application? I thought it’s just the test scores and teachers assessment. What other material? Worksheets from the classroom?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Btw what “other material”’is normally submitted with the application? I thought it’s just the test scores and teachers assessment. What other material? Worksheets from the classroom?

Case and point! Kids are prepped and angled in by parents.

[Anonymous]

I was in IB and if you got C’s you were counseled out. I think we started with 250 in each class and we graduated half that so there were a lot of kids who didn’t make it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Btw what “other material”’is normally submitted with the application? I thought it’s just the test scores and teachers assessment. What other material? Worksheets from the classroom?

HOPE scores, it used to be GBRS scores, report cards, and work samples are included in all applications.

Parents can choose to submit: a parent questionnaire, essentially a sheet with traits that you check if you think your child has or does not and provide examples for each trait, and work samples from home.

The last audit, which was 6 years ago I think, showed that the GBRS, now HOPE scores, were most important, then the CoGAT. NNAT had no impact on selection and the work samples did not seem to be all that important. It has been a while since I looked at the report. It also showed that parent applications and appeals were more common among MC and UMC families and played a significant role in who was selected and the diversity imbalance; Whites and Asians were over-represented in AAP and Blacks and Hispanics were under-represented.

It has been a while since they conducted an audit. The school board did implement many of the suggestions in the report but have not implemented all of them. The two that I remember being suggested that have not been acted are on removing appeals and removing parent referrals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was in IB and if you got C’s you were counseled out. I think we started with 250 in each class and we graduated half that so there were a lot of kids who didn’t make it.

High School is different then ES and MS. The kids in HS should be better prepared to deal with the consequences of not maintaining needed grades. In many cases, a student not earning a C in classes in High School is aware that they are struggling because the material is too much or aware that they just are not doing the work. Telling an ES kid that they are being removed from a program because they are not doing well is a very different story. This is especially true if their parents hyped that the program is for smart kids or advanced kids or made it out to be something that makes the kid better then other kids.

Flexible groupings in ES help deal with this because kids can move between groups over the course of the year or from grade level to grade level. If kids are moving between groups it is easier for kids to accept the move. Kids know which class or grouping is the highest and which is the lowest, I am not pretending that is not the case, but if they see that their classmates are spread with some in the higher groups for math but the average or above average group for reading then the more that they can accept that kids are able to be strong in one area and not as strong in others. Movement is easier to accept.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't this weed out the kids who were prepped in? My kid is definitely in classes with kids who don't belong in AAP but because they don't get counseled out or reevaluated annually, they're just stuck there and it's (a) hard for those kids and (b) annoying for the truly advanced kids who they are holding behind.

You wouldn't be weeding out prepped kids, you would be weeding out the kids that are referred by parents.
On the whole, test scores reflect ability whether it is prepped or not. An unprepared kid can underperform but a well prepared kid will not outperform.
Don't excuse your child's failure with the fact that other kids have studied.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are absolutely NOT supposed to prepare for tests like NNAT and COGAT. You can ABSOLUTELY trick those tests into believing your child is gifted because you have taught your child the strategies to answer the questions as opposed to actually gifted children who can intuitively answer the questions without any help at all. You don't see the difference there?

The least qualified kids are parent referrals. We should really just get rid of that.

A 7 year old isn't "tricking" a test. If you are getting in on test scores, you are qualified.

If you are getting in based on parent referral, you are probably NOT qualified.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't this weed out the kids who were prepped in? My kid is definitely in classes with kids who don't belong in AAP but because they don't get counseled out or reevaluated annually, they're just stuck there and it's (a) hard for those kids and (b) annoying for the truly advanced kids who they are holding behind.

You wouldn't be weeding out prepped kids, you would be weeding out the kids that are referred by parents.
On the whole, test scores reflect ability whether it is prepped or not. An unprepared kid can underperform but a well prepared kid will not outperform.
Don't excuse your child's failure with the fact that other kids have studied.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are absolutely NOT supposed to prepare for tests like NNAT and COGAT. You can ABSOLUTELY trick those tests into believing your child is gifted because you have taught your child the strategies to answer the questions as opposed to actually gifted children who can intuitively answer the questions without any help at all. You don't see the difference there?

The thing is, almost everyone preps for these so if you don't, you are at a disadvantage. Have you been to lotte in Fairfax? They sell cogat prep books. If you think people aren't prepping their kids then you are deluded. Also, AAP is no a gifted program. It's an advanced academic program. There is a difference.

I think that Lotte is closed but you can just get it delivered to your door through amazon.com

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=cogat&ref=nb_sb_noss
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=nnat&crid=QHJ5BOYPZWXC&sprefix=nnat%2Caps%2C79&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know they don't belong? Do the teachers discuss others' grades with you?

Ignoring the fact that there are parents on this forum who admit to applying and appealing multiple years to get their kid into AAP who is not advanced and then using tutors to keep their kids in the class, kids discuss test scores and see who is struggling in their class and who is exceling. They know who is finishing their work early and has time to do extra work or their own thing while other kids are working with the Teacher. DS had homework maybe 5 times last year, he had friends who had an hour or so of homework every day. Their homework was any work they didn't complete in class. I know his friends parents where not happy with the amount of work that was coming home and were surprised that DS had none. We see it on the neighborhood message board when parents gripe about homework and are confused that some kids don't have any.

This isn't rocket science. There are kids strong in LA who are in AAP who are not strong in math. They struggle with the pace of math, especially in 5th and 6th grade. There are kids who are strong in math and not LA in AAP and they struggle with some of the LA work. The program would be better served to have Advanced Math and Advanced LA so that the kids who are strong in one or the other can push into the AAP class for that specific subject but stay on the grade level class for the area that they are not in need of. I know that many of the high CoGAT scores/iReady score kids who are not put in AAP are kids with high Quant scores and more average LA scores. You can't do that as easily for a kid with high verbal scores and more grade level math scores because there is no Advanced LA option.

I had homework after school because I liked to socialize with other kids at school and so my work in the quietness of my home.

Maybe your kid isn't as social?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't this weed out the kids who were prepped in? My kid is definitely in classes with kids who don't belong in AAP but because they don't get counseled out or reevaluated annually, they're just stuck there and it's (a) hard for those kids and (b) annoying for the truly advanced kids who they are holding behind.

You wouldn't be weeding out prepped kids, you would be weeding out the kids that are referred by parents.
On the whole, test scores reflect ability whether it is prepped or not. An unprepared kid can underperform but a well prepared kid will not outperform.
Don't excuse your child's failure with the fact that other kids have studied.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are absolutely NOT supposed to prepare for tests like NNAT and COGAT. You can ABSOLUTELY trick those tests into believing your child is gifted because you have taught your child the strategies to answer the questions as opposed to actually gifted children who can intuitively answer the questions without any help at all. You don't see the difference there?

The thing is, almost everyone preps for these so if you don't, you are at a disadvantage. Have you been to lotte in Fairfax? They sell cogat prep books. If you think people aren't prepping their kids then you are deluded. Also, AAP is no a gifted program. It's an advanced academic program. There is a difference.

I think that Lotte is closed but you can just get it delivered to your door through amazon.com

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=cogat&ref=nb_sb_noss
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=nnat&crid=QHJ5BOYPZWXC&sprefix=nnat%2Caps%2C79&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

Thanks for the links. Placed order.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't this weed out the kids who were prepped in? My kid is definitely in classes with kids who don't belong in AAP but because they don't get counseled out or reevaluated annually, they're just stuck there and it's (a) hard for those kids and (b) annoying for the truly advanced kids who they are holding behind.

You wouldn't be weeding out prepped kids, you would be weeding out the kids that are referred by parents.
On the whole, test scores reflect ability whether it is prepped or not. An unprepared kid can underperform but a well prepared kid will not outperform.
Don't excuse your child's failure with the fact that other kids have studied.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are absolutely NOT supposed to prepare for tests like NNAT and COGAT. You can ABSOLUTELY trick those tests into believing your child is gifted because you have taught your child the strategies to answer the questions as opposed to actually gifted children who can intuitively answer the questions without any help at all. You don't see the difference there?

The least qualified kids are parent referrals. We should really just get rid of that.

A 7 year old isn't "tricking" a test. If you are getting in on test scores, you are qualified.

If you are getting in based on parent referral, you are probably NOT qualified.

I don't think they can. Multiple referral pathways are state required. Also every high SES elementary school family would flip out to the media, and there's nothing FCPS hates more than bad press.