Why won't FCPS kick kids out of AAP or re-evaluate them annually?

[Anonymous]

Back in the day when AAP was called GT - I was the kid that should've been kicked out. I was at the bottom of my class, they moved other kids in through the year and moved them out. They didn't care about esteem then.

For that year - I was waiting for my teacher to tell me I need to clear my desk and move out. That day never happened.

I think - it was a judgement call. I think: my teacher felt I needed to get used to the competition. I was at the remedial level the year before and when they made me take the standard exam I think I outscored everyone.

As with life everything depends on how your: teacher, manager, parent, ... sees you as not what you are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think it would be easier to do that if they moved away from the center model.
Can't imagine being the poor kid who switched schools, because he thought he was smarter than everyone else, and then got sent back to his base school because he wasn't so special after all.

This is partly the reason. I asked about moving my DC back to gen ed because they were struggling a little (this was during virtual school), and the school told me they generally don’t do that because other kids will know and DC might feel bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How do you know they don't belong? Do the teachers discuss others' grades with you?

Ignoring the fact that there are parents on this forum who admit to applying and appealing multiple years to get their kid into AAP who is not advanced and then using tutors to keep their kids in the class, kids discuss test scores and see who is struggling in their class and who is exceling. They know who is finishing their work early and has time to do extra work or their own thing while other kids are working with the Teacher. DS had homework maybe 5 times last year, he had friends who had an hour or so of homework every day. Their homework was any work they didn't complete in class. I know his friends parents where not happy with the amount of work that was coming home and were surprised that DS had none. We see it on the neighborhood message board when parents gripe about homework and are confused that some kids don't have any.

This isn't rocket science. There are kids strong in LA who are in AAP who are not strong in math. They struggle with the pace of math, especially in 5th and 6th grade. There are kids who are strong in math and not LA in AAP and they struggle with some of the LA work. The program would be better served to have Advanced Math and Advanced LA so that the kids who are strong in one or the other can push into the AAP class for that specific subject but stay on the grade level class for the area that they are not in need of. I know that many of the high CoGAT scores/iReady score kids who are not put in AAP are kids with high Quant scores and more average LA scores. You can't do that as easily for a kid with high verbal scores and more grade level math scores because there is no Advanced LA option.

NP. At our center school, S/SS and LA and math were integrated in 5th and especially 6th grade. Dividing into Advanced Math and Advanced LA would be difficult. Did your school not do that?

Every school does things differently. Kids were separated into homeroom based on Advanced Math or Regular Math in 5th grade and then had all classes with that group, a defacto LIV group. They changed classes for all subjects in 6th grade, with the Advanced Math kids all in the same math classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't this weed out the kids who were prepped in? My kid is definitely in classes with kids who don't belong in AAP but because they don't get counseled out or reevaluated annually, they're just stuck there and it's (a) hard for those kids and (b) annoying for the truly advanced kids who they are holding behind.

You wouldn't be weeding out prepped kids, you would be weeding out the kids that are referred by parents.
On the whole, test scores reflect ability whether it is prepped or not. An unprepared kid can underperform but a well prepared kid will not outperform.
Don't excuse your child's failure with the fact that other kids have studied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you know they don't belong? Do the teachers discuss others' grades with you?

I take it you don't have friends with children in the same classes as yours? I do, and they tell me their kids are struggling but don't want to drop them down to "gen ed". The kids know each other really well after three years in the same class, too, they know which ones have tutors, which ones get extra pull outs, which ones get more small group time. People talk, PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wondered about this when my kid was going through the program. Annual reevaluation for all kids would be a waste of time and overkill, but kids who are consistently failing the SOLs and unable to keep up with the work should be kicked out. On the flip side, passing advanced on both SOLs and getting 4s across the board should be a guaranteed in. There are very few kids who pass advanced on both reading and math who couldn't handle the pace and curriculum of AAP.

On the one hand it's bad for kid's self esteem if they are removed. On the other hand, nobody cares about the self esteem of kids who don't get in

This is a stupid argument. Maybe parents and schools should stop telling AAP kids that they're special. Maybe instead tell children that they are in classes that meet their needs and stop there. One of my kids asked why they didn't get in to AAP and I said "You don't need to be in there. You're going to get advanced math pull outs, but everything else in the normal classroom is perfect for you!" and that was that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't this weed out the kids who were prepped in? My kid is definitely in classes with kids who don't belong in AAP but because they don't get counseled out or reevaluated annually, they're just stuck there and it's (a) hard for those kids and (b) annoying for the truly advanced kids who they are holding behind.

Get off your high horse and get ready for your kid to fail.

OP here. If I was told that my child didn't belong in AAP, then I would absolutely bring her down to a general ed class. I'm not a snob. I have one kid in AAP and one who isn't. They're both exactly where they need to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it would be easier to do that if they moved away from the center model.
Can't imagine being the poor kid who switched schools, because he thought he was smarter than everyone else, and then got sent back to his base school because he wasn't so special after all.

This is partly the reason. I asked about moving my DC back to gen ed because they were struggling a little (this was during virtual school), and the school told me they generally don’t do that because other kids will know and DC might feel bad.

That is just STUPID.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't this weed out the kids who were prepped in? My kid is definitely in classes with kids who don't belong in AAP but because they don't get counseled out or reevaluated annually, they're just stuck there and it's (a) hard for those kids and (b) annoying for the truly advanced kids who they are holding behind.

You wouldn't be weeding out prepped kids, you would be weeding out the kids that are referred by parents.
On the whole, test scores reflect ability whether it is prepped or not. An unprepared kid can underperform but a well prepared kid will not outperform.
Don't excuse your child's failure with the fact that other kids have studied.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are absolutely NOT supposed to prepare for tests like NNAT and COGAT. You can ABSOLUTELY trick those tests into believing your child is gifted because you have taught your child the strategies to answer the questions as opposed to actually gifted children who can intuitively answer the questions without any help at all. You don't see the difference there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wondered about this when my kid was going through the program. Annual reevaluation for all kids would be a waste of time and overkill, but kids who are consistently failing the SOLs and unable to keep up with the work should be kicked out. On the flip side, passing advanced on both SOLs and getting 4s across the board should be a guaranteed in. There are very few kids who pass advanced on both reading and math who couldn't handle the pace and curriculum of AAP.

On the one hand it's bad for kid's self esteem if they are removed. On the other hand, nobody cares about the self esteem of kids who don't get in

This is a stupid argument. Maybe parents and schools should stop telling AAP kids that they're special. Maybe instead tell children that they are in classes that meet their needs and stop there. One of my kids asked why they didn't get in to AAP and I said "You don't need to be in there. You're going to get advanced math pull outs, but everything else in the normal classroom is perfect for you!" and that was that.

My kid pushed in for advanced math. We were told and they were told that their spot was contingent on their being space available. That was the highlight of the advanced math meeting. There was no talk of meeting her needs, just her needs can be met as along as the level IV class has space for her.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't this weed out the kids who were prepped in? My kid is definitely in classes with kids who don't belong in AAP but because they don't get counseled out or reevaluated annually, they're just stuck there and it's (a) hard for those kids and (b) annoying for the truly advanced kids who they are holding behind.

You wouldn't be weeding out prepped kids, you would be weeding out the kids that are referred by parents.
On the whole, test scores reflect ability whether it is prepped or not. An unprepared kid can underperform but a well prepared kid will not outperform.
Don't excuse your child's failure with the fact that other kids have studied.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are absolutely NOT supposed to prepare for tests like NNAT and COGAT. You can ABSOLUTELY trick those tests into believing your child is gifted because you have taught your child the strategies to answer the questions as opposed to actually gifted children who can intuitively answer the questions without any help at all. You don't see the difference there?

The thing is, almost everyone preps for these so if you don't, you are at a disadvantage. Have you been to lotte in Fairfax? They sell cogat prep books. If you think people aren't prepping their kids then you are deluded. Also, AAP is no a gifted program. It's an advanced academic program. There is a difference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't this weed out the kids who were prepped in? My kid is definitely in classes with kids who don't belong in AAP but because they don't get counseled out or reevaluated annually, they're just stuck there and it's (a) hard for those kids and (b) annoying for the truly advanced kids who they are holding behind.

You wouldn't be weeding out prepped kids, you would be weeding out the kids that are referred by parents.
On the whole, test scores reflect ability whether it is prepped or not. An unprepared kid can underperform but a well prepared kid will not outperform.
Don't excuse your child's failure with the fact that other kids have studied.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are absolutely NOT supposed to prepare for tests like NNAT and COGAT. You can ABSOLUTELY trick those tests into believing your child is gifted because you have taught your child the strategies to answer the questions as opposed to actually gifted children who can intuitively answer the questions without any help at all. You don't see the difference there?

The thing is, almost everyone preps for these so if you don't, you are at a disadvantage. Have you been to lotte in Fairfax? They sell cogat prep books. If you think people aren't prepping their kids then you are deluded. Also, AAP is no a gifted program. It's an advanced academic program. There is a difference.

This area is soooooo type A

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wondered about this when my kid was going through the program. Annual reevaluation for all kids would be a waste of time and overkill, but kids who are consistently failing the SOLs and unable to keep up with the work should be kicked out. On the flip side, passing advanced on both SOLs and getting 4s across the board should be a guaranteed in. There are very few kids who pass advanced on both reading and math who couldn't handle the pace and curriculum of AAP.

On the one hand it's bad for kid's self esteem if they are removed. On the other hand, nobody cares about the self esteem of kids who don't get in

I doubt self esteem is the main reason that they don't kick kids out of AAP. Wouldn't it be horrible for a kid's self esteem to struggle in AAP, feel like they don't understand the material, and feel like the other kids are annoyed with them for holding back the rest of the class?

I bet they just don't want to have to deal with angry parents. It's easier for the school to leave the kid in AAP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't this weed out the kids who were prepped in? My kid is definitely in classes with kids who don't belong in AAP but because they don't get counseled out or reevaluated annually, they're just stuck there and it's (a) hard for those kids and (b) annoying for the truly advanced kids who they are holding behind.

You wouldn't be weeding out prepped kids, you would be weeding out the kids that are referred by parents.
On the whole, test scores reflect ability whether it is prepped or not. An unprepared kid can underperform but a well prepared kid will not outperform.
Don't excuse your child's failure with the fact that other kids have studied.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are absolutely NOT supposed to prepare for tests like NNAT and COGAT. You can ABSOLUTELY trick those tests into believing your child is gifted because you have taught your child the strategies to answer the questions as opposed to actually gifted children who can intuitively answer the questions without any help at all. You don't see the difference there?

The thing is, almost everyone preps for these so if you don't, you are at a disadvantage. Have you been to lotte in Fairfax? They sell cogat prep books. If you think people aren't prepping their kids then you are deluded. Also, AAP is no a gifted program. It's an advanced academic program. There is a difference.

No, that’s nonsense, *almost* everyone does not prep. There are some who do but don’t justify your cheating w that BS that everyone does it so you do too to keep up. I have 2 kids in AAP and have no idea what “the lotte in Fairfax” is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't this weed out the kids who were prepped in? My kid is definitely in classes with kids who don't belong in AAP but because they don't get counseled out or reevaluated annually, they're just stuck there and it's (a) hard for those kids and (b) annoying for the truly advanced kids who they are holding behind.

You wouldn't be weeding out prepped kids, you would be weeding out the kids that are referred by parents.
On the whole, test scores reflect ability whether it is prepped or not. An unprepared kid can underperform but a well prepared kid will not outperform.
Don't excuse your child's failure with the fact that other kids have studied.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are absolutely NOT supposed to prepare for tests like NNAT and COGAT. You can ABSOLUTELY trick those tests into believing your child is gifted because you have taught your child the strategies to answer the questions as opposed to actually gifted children who can intuitively answer the questions without any help at all. You don't see the difference there?

The thing is, almost everyone preps for these so if you don't, you are at a disadvantage. Have you been to lotte in Fairfax? They sell cogat prep books. If you think people aren't prepping their kids then you are deluded. Also, AAP is no a gifted program. It's an advanced academic program. There is a difference.

Your sample size must not be huge. We absolutely did not prep for the cogat yet my dd scored in the 99th percentile. Just like every iready test which shocker was not prepped for other than what teachers may do in the classroom.