Undergrad doesn’t matter

[Anonymous]

I went to an open-admissions urban private with a problematic graduation rate. Got into a T1 law school easily. LSAT was 99th percentile; I'm good at logic. Not surprisingly, I was wicked good at law school as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The leftover 147 are the valedictorians or token reps to fill in the rest of the class.

cough, diversity admits, cough

You're gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A spinoff of sorts from the chasing merit thread.

https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

Look at all the schools that are represented in Harvard’s L1 class for 23-24.

You don’t need a highly ranked school to get into an excellent grad program. This isn’t 80% of the class from T50’s. These schools are all over the board in ranking.

You clearly didn't go there or you would know what is wrong with your post. There are only 147 undergrad institutions given there. The entering class of Harvard Law is 560. The remaining 413 come predominantly from only from the Ivies + Stanford with Harvard undergrads making up about 30% of the entire class (in my year). So if you really want to go there you go to Harvard undergrad, then Yale, Stanford, etc. The leftover 147 are the valedictorians or token reps to fill in the rest of the class.

Point taken about the class size. But the point still stands (from the misconception on the other thread) that almost all of the class is not from top schools.

And this 147 you speak of - you know it’s only 1 person from each of these schools?

Yes, I was one of them. Like you, from an unimpressive SLAC, but no 1 in my class, Rhodes, 4.0, high LSAT, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A spinoff of sorts from the chasing merit thread.

https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

Look at all the schools that are represented in Harvard’s L1 class for 23-24.

You don’t need a highly ranked school to get into an excellent grad program. This isn’t 80% of the class from T50’s. These schools are all over the board in ranking.

You clearly didn't go there or you would know what is wrong with your post. There are only 147 undergrad institutions given there. The entering class of Harvard Law is 560. The remaining 413 come predominantly from only from the Ivies + Stanford with Harvard undergrads making up about 30% of the entire class (in my year). So if you really want to go there you go to Harvard undergrad, then Yale, Stanford, etc. The leftover 147 are the valedictorians or token reps to fill in the rest of the class.

Point taken about the class size. But the point still stands (from the misconception on the other thread) that almost all of the class is not from top schools.

And this 147 you speak of - you know it’s only 1 person from each of these schools?

Yes, I was one of them. Like you, from an unimpressive SLAC, but no 1 in my class, Rhodes, 4.0, high LSAT, etc.

I went to an unimpressive big state school in the middle of the country and then a T4 law school - there were 2 of us from my undergrad in my class. It was kind of funny because you could tell the other girl was bothered that she wasn't the only one. Neither of us were #1 in our class AFAIK, but we were both strong students and presumably aced the LSAT.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Point taken about the class size. But the point still stands (from the misconception on the other thread) that almost all of the class is not from top schools.

Are you saying that a student is just as likely to get into HLS from a non-top school as someone who attends a top school, all else being equal?

They are wrong. See above. The Harvard entering class is 560. Only 147 come from the SLACs listed. The rest all come from Harvard (a huge percentage of the class), Yale, Princeton, Stanford, then the lesser Ivies. Yes, Harvard likes to sweep up the valedictorian at many small colleges but most of those kids check off another box - like me - I was first gen and had other odd skills that Harvard Law could brag about to its alumni when it sends out its letter every year saying 147 schools! 4 Rhodes Scholars! 8 pancake turners! 13 eagle scouts! 12 Marshalls, 87 foreign languages!, and so on. Skin color is paramount. a 180 LSAT helps (believe it or not the 75th percentile at HLS has a 179 LSAT and a 3.99 GPA - that's off the top of my head so might be slightly off - but still very impressive, I guess).

Harvard posts this list every year just so some poor dupes at a slac somewhere think they have a chance. It's very unfair. 30% of my class was from Harvard undergrad so that's 168 students. Note you won't find this information on the HLS website anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: The leftover 147 are the valedictorians or token reps to fill in the rest of the class.

cough, diversity admits, cough[/quote]


Exactly. I got in as a woman valedictorian back when women were only 26 percent of the class. And first gen, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Imagine if we could answer questions in more nuanced, less black-and-white ways.

For example, when asked whether where you go to undergraduate matters, perhaps the answer is "Somewhat but 1) not nearly as much as many people think; and 2) more for some career paths than others."

This. And, to be clear, when saying "undergrad matters" what you are really saying is undergrad ranking or selectivity or brand matters in this way.

The undergrad absolutely matters more in what kinds of resources and experiences it can provide. But you can get that at a much wider range of schools than a lot of DCUMs think you can.

[Anonymous]

OP doesn't understand stats AT ALL. Goodness. You have NO idea how many kids from these colleges applied to HLS, what percentage of those were admitted, or their stats. In the past HLS and Yale used to post how many kids in each entering class came from which college. An astronomical percentage were "home grown," i.e., Harvard College to HLS. Also, 5 kids going to HLS from Williams (2000 undergrads) is statistically a really different story than 5 kids going to HLS from FSU (32,000 undergrads).
So, upshot, undergrad usually matters when you're talking about elite graduate institutions. There are exceptions, of course, as this is not an ironclad situation, but don't kid yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A spinoff of sorts from the chasing merit thread.

https://hls.harvard.edu/jdadmissions/apply-to-harvard-law-school/jdapplicants/hls-profile-and-facts/undergraduate-institutions/

Look at all the schools that are represented in Harvard’s L1 class for 23-24.

You don’t need a highly ranked school to get into an excellent grad program. This isn’t 80% of the class from T50’s. These schools are all over the board in ranking.

You clearly didn't go there or you would know what is wrong with your post. There are only 147 undergrad institutions given there. The entering class of Harvard Law is 560. The remaining 413 come predominantly from only from the Ivies + Stanford with Harvard undergrads making up about 30% of the entire class (in my year). So if you really want to go there you go to Harvard undergrad, then Yale, Stanford, etc. The leftover 147 are the valedictorians or token reps to fill in the rest of the class.

Point taken about the class size. But the point still stands (from the misconception on the other thread) that almost all of the class is not from top schools.

And this 147 you speak of - you know it’s only 1 person from each of these schools?

Yes, I was one of them. Like you, from an unimpressive SLAC, but no 1 in my class, Rhodes, 4.0, high LSAT, etc.

So wait - your rational is because you are the only one that came from your specific school, this must be the case for every other school on the list? You can’t be serious.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Peers matter.

THIS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Point taken about the class size. But the point still stands (from the misconception on the other thread) that almost all of the class is not from top schools.

Are you saying that a student is just as likely to get into HLS from a non-top school as someone who attends a top school, all else being equal?

I would imagine that a student from a directional state school with the same grades and LSAT would have a better chance of being admitted to HLS than a Harvard undergrad student. Of course, besides that HLS admits students from a wide number of colleges, we are dealing with mainly conjecture without more information.

Would they be as likely to get the high LSAT if they attended Directional State Y? Also, law schools can't just care about GPA in a vacuum. They must have some controls for rigor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Peers matter.

THIS.

You can find a peer group at any school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Peers matter.

THIS.

You can find a peer group at any school.

You can find a peer group, but is it the one that you really want?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Peers matter.

THIS.

You can find a peer group at any school.

Sure, but tell me with a straight face that your experience finding your peer group at MIT is not much different than trying to find your peer group at Alabama.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Point taken about the class size. But the point still stands (from the misconception on the other thread) that almost all of the class is not from top schools.

Are you saying that a student is just as likely to get into HLS from a non-top school as someone who attends a top school, all else being equal?

They are wrong. See above. The Harvard entering class is 560. Only 147 come from the SLACs listed. The rest all come from Harvard (a huge percentage of the class), Yale, Princeton, Stanford, then the lesser Ivies.

Let's take some of those logic skills from that legal degree. How many people graduate per year from your average top LAC? Like 400-500. Then factor wanting to go to law school over other options out of undergrad drives away a pretty nasty chunk of students. 147/560 is pretty spectacular. That is why Amherst is the second highest law school feeder in the country.