How bad is it if you fail Algebra - Physical health issues also involved

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:8th grader or 9th? You need to know your school's exact policy. If it's a high school this might be published on the web. You should call your school or superintendent's office ASAP for info as they may go on break soon.

Is it too late to register for summer school for credit recovery? If it's too late, have your child work on algebra problems all summer using Khan Academy, ixl.com, or something like Mathnasium, Kumon, or tutoring.

PP of post above. As a parent who had to remediate my kids' pandemic-impacted math, I recommend you subscribe to IXL.com math over the summer and have your child do 30 mins per day. You can see the results in the parent portal and use the analysis of strengths and weaknesses to have a conversation with a teacher on where your child's math knowledge gaps are. It covers K-12 math. So it will be able to find your child's level. It basically does what the Mathnasium intake assessment does. You may find your child has problems with math anywhere from 5th grade to 9th grade math.

If your kid won't do this work, it's not worth subscribing. But if they are diligent you should see some patterns emerge and they may be able to strengthen some skills by practicing. If you don't feel confident analyzing it you could try posting pictures of the results on this site. Or getting help from the school in the fall.

If you don't have a good free online math program through school, you can use Khan. You don't need to pay for practice and lectures.

PP. Khan and IXL are similar but IXL is better for parental monitoring. IXL math is only $10.00 per month. It doesn't have lectures.

However, IXL is probably not best for OP's enhanced description of what went wrong. It would be more suitable for remediating Algebra I.

Khan might or might not work. Retaking with a tutor's support would be better.

[Anonymous]

I don't think you should take away his passion, OP, your poor kid clearly needs it to feel himself. But you do need to re-explain, in the most serious terms, what the F means, why it should never happen again, and what tutoring he's going to get to make sure it doesn't happen again. Yes, an F is a big Fing deal. But no need to panic, because it's already happened. You're in recovery mode now.

In some ways, if you let the F happen, the failure is a family failure more than an individual failure. These days parents who understand the college admissions game keep an eye on their kids' grades and intervene when they start dipping past the kid's usual average. College admissions are not forgiving for this generation of kids.

My kid has dyscalculia, a specific disability in math, and he dropped temporarily to a D. But that was in AP Calc BC in senior year, not Alg 2, where he got straight As. We helped him all we could with reminders to get all his work in, as well as paying for tutoring.

I don't know where your kid could apply with an F, but if you're in agonies, you can call the admissions office, anonymously, and just ask. They're going to answer honestly, and they're used to dealing with worried parents. Or even better, you make your kid call and ask - it will make him understand that this is real, and it's HIS future, not yours.

But I do know that from now on he has to really work hard at all these courses he doesn't like. Get him tutors and make him sit down and do the work before he can address his favorite activity.

Has he visited colleges yet? Sometimes that's what it takes for kids to grasp they're leaving home soon and have to get it together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all for the helpful advice.

We would take child for ADHD testing for sure.

Three main things I am debating about are

1. Take away or set severe limits on the extracurricular unless grades improve or child putting enough work that shows improvement is visible in homework/tests. But I am debating why take away the kids strength? Would it be even more harmful in some unknown way.

But and this is probably the more pertinent one, is taking away the extracurricular would lead to a big blow up.

2. Is there any way to remediate the F - as in taking the credit recovery? Would the F be reduced to something like a D.

3. How common is an F? Is it something like say drunk driving arrest for adults or even something worse or say speeding ticket in terms of severity? Put another way, what is the right level of panic we should be feeling?

We knew child is not going to a top 100 college. Child aim is colleges in the 120 - 180 range. Is this even on the cards now?

I do understand the feedback and none of it is harsh. I think all of you are being very kind and somewhat gentle in fact.

If credit recovery were possible he would already be doing it. I’m a teacher and credit recovery is currently taking place at my school. You had to have a 54-59 to qualify and you spend 2 weeks remediating up to a 60. But you would have heard from his teacher or counselor already if that were the case. If he was below a 54 it’s just a straight F. He could retake it next year but I don’t know that it replaces the first F, I think you need to check with his counselor.

An F isn’t the end of the world. You’re going to get parents here acting like it is. However your kid needs to realize his academic trajectory is NOT the 120-180 top college route. He will get into *a* college but not an especially impressive one. But also, an impressive college doesn’t actually mean much in the long run for most people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No chance of ADHD, unless it only started in the last 5 months.

What blows away my mind is this - my child helps with homework/questions on some of the Algebra 2 topics earlier in the year to our neighbor's child who is in the same class. So not like child does not understand or finding it difficult. Attitude is a B is good enough for what the college I want to go to, so why bother. It is working fine, until the health issue. Then it seemed like, I have this health issue, maybe I do not even need a B. Not sure if that is the thinking but seems like it.

What do you mean no chance of ADHD? It could have been there all along but you just were not aware because they were managing to keep it together until it all got to be too much. Please get your child evaluated. It can do so much harm to blame the child for something out of their control.

We have friends whose children have ADHD and child does not exhibit any similarities. But of course we are not really familiar with ADHD.

To us child is pretty normal. People person. Gets along with everyone. Organizes events, can manage a bunch of people to do something for hours, etc.

Would you still recommend getting child evaluated?

Are you seriously asking if you should not get him evaluated because he doesn’t match your uninformed view of what adhd is? Take him to a professional please. Stat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all for the helpful advice.

We would take child for ADHD testing for sure.

Three main things I am debating about are

1. Take away or set severe limits on the extracurricular unless grades improve or child putting enough work that shows improvement is visible in homework/tests. But I am debating why take away the kids strength? Would it be even more harmful in some unknown way.

But and this is probably the more pertinent one, is taking away the extracurricular would lead to a big blow up.

2. Is there any way to remediate the F - as in taking the credit recovery? Would the F be reduced to something like a D.

3. How common is an F? Is it something like say drunk driving arrest for adults or even something worse or say speeding ticket in terms of severity? Put another way, what is the right level of panic we should be feeling?

We knew child is not going to a top 100 college. Child aim is colleges in the 120 - 180 range. Is this even on the cards now?

I do understand the feedback and none of it is harsh. I think all of you are being very kind and somewhat gentle in fact.

As to #1, only you know your child and your relationship with him. Of course he isn't going to like having anything he likes taken away, let along something he's passionate about and loves. Depending on him and your relationship, you could have a serious sit-down chat first and explain what's going to happen, as well as what's going to happen if those things don't happen. If you can't bring yourself to take away the extracurricular (I empathize -- with one of our kids who hated school, low confidence and other issues, taking away the one thing they did enjoy and were successful in was precisely the wrong thing to do to. I don't think our situations are the same, however) -- anyway, if you can't bring yourself to do that or there is a real chance he will rebel and start doing worse in other areas, then start with something else. If it isn't taking away some privilege, then it is DOING specific things to get back on track with his math (repeating the class, getting a tutor and/or following a set schedule of math practice - with that tutor or even Khan Academy or other free option; overseeing his math homework every night - if he doesn't do it, no extracurricular the next day; etc.) If he doesn't follow the plan, privileges start going away - and you can start "small" to see how he reacts to that.

I'm not sure why so many are focusing on ADHD, given this is one specific class in a subject he has previously earned A's in. A to F is a real drop. I'm the one who previously posted about the possibility he just intentionally gave up because it was hard and didn't want to be a failure (due to his own inability). You report his other grades remained fine. So if it isn't that, it is clearly something about Alg2 or about this particular class (group of kids) or this particular teacher.

You don't indicate what communications you've had with his teacher throughout the year or what they think may be the issue. If it really is a matter of believing it's not important because the GPA is the biggest thing, then (1) he needs to learn that's not entirely true, that colleges look at your whole courseload and grades to see what you've taken and how well you've done; and that A to F in math is going to really stand out and pose a big "WHY?" Math is cumulative; so if he thinks he will just jump back in with the next course, he should rethink that. He really does need to retake Alg2 whether it's over the summer or during the next school year. (2) You might want to try appealing to the idea that it isn't about a specific GPA, rather the integrity and benefits of striving to do your best or giving your best effort to everything you do. It's about character and values; learning; getting the best education he can and becoming an educated person; learning that you have to do a lot of crap you don't enjoy or aren't the best at in order to do what you like in life; etc.


Re #2, as I suggested above, he needs to retake the course. Not just a matter of getting a D instead of an F, but to be properly prepared for the next level math class. Even if he doesn't intend to take another one in high school, I guarantee you he will then have to take one in college.

Re #3, you don't have to "panic" at all at this point. If things worsen and his other grades start going down or you see his enthusiasm or effort in other areas (particularly in anything and everything except his extracurricular passion), then you step up the seriousness of it all accordingly. Don't let "panic" or your anxiety show through to him; but definitely ensure he knows you take it seriously and expect him to do the same.

Finally, if he doesn't make it into the 120-180 schools --- SO WHAT??!! He will find his way in life. It may not be the way you hoped or dreamed or envisioned as the parent. It may be a more difficult path for him; but he will learn from that. How do I know? Because I'm experiencing that as the parent right now. Our kid has found a way to pursue what he apparently has really always wanted to do despite doing poorly (far below his ability and talents) in school and his hard work trying to figure out a way that does not involve college. Finally decided it will involve college, didn't get in to an 90% acceptance rate state college and decided to do the 2 years at community college with guaranteed admission to state university to finish the 4 years. Not how we envisioned or hoped when we became parents; but happy to save the tuition and very happy he's going to college and happy in his chosen area (so far, anyway!). Not only that, after his first year, he has a 3.8 GPA.

Tell your son the reason we believe ours did not get accepted into the state university - despite meeting minimum GPA expectations - is his lack of college prep classes in high school, including not going beyond Alg2 in math.

[Anonymous]

My kid failed Algebra 2 in sophomore year and they re-took it over summer and did fine (B+). Some untreated health issues contributed, so they'll address that in their college essays. One thing to know - the failing grade remains on the transcript. The school will use the new grade when calculating the GPA, but colleges will still be able to see the failing grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all for the helpful advice.

We would take child for ADHD testing for sure.

Three main things I am debating about are

1. Take away or set severe limits on the extracurricular unless grades improve or child putting enough work that shows improvement is visible in homework/tests. But I am debating why take away the kids strength? Would it be even more harmful in some unknown way.

But and this is probably the more pertinent one, is taking away the extracurricular would lead to a big blow up.

2. Is there any way to remediate the F - as in taking the credit recovery? Would the F be reduced to something like a D.

3. How common is an F? Is it something like say drunk driving arrest for adults or even something worse or say speeding ticket in terms of severity? Put another way, what is the right level of panic we should be feeling?

We knew child is not going to a top 100 college. Child aim is colleges in the 120 - 180 range. Is this even on the cards now?

I do understand the feedback and none of it is harsh. I think all of you are being very kind and somewhat gentle in fact.

If credit recovery were possible he would already be doing it. I’m a teacher and credit recovery is currently taking place at my school. You had to have a 54-59 to qualify and you spend 2 weeks remediating up to a 60. But you would have heard from his teacher or counselor already if that were the case. If he was below a 54 it’s just a straight F. He could retake it next year but I don’t know that it replaces the first F, I think you need to check with his counselor.

An F isn’t the end of the world. You’re going to get parents here acting like it is. However your kid needs to realize his academic trajectory is NOT the 120-180 top college route. He will get into *a* college but not an especially impressive one. But also, an impressive college doesn’t actually mean much in the long run for most people.

If he retakes it and earns a higher grade, the previous "F" should be removed/removable from his transcript. At least in APS. My kid's counselor recommended having an "F" course in another subject removed from their transcript (and GPA calculation). It should be possible as long as they still have enough credits and have met the other requirements for graduation.

I'm struggling to understand why people think a college outside of the "recognized top 180" is unimpressive. There are thousands of colleges and universities in this country. Most of them of rather comparable quality, including with at least some of those "top 180" schools. Just because I haven't heard of some school halfway across the country doesn't mean it's an "unimpressive" school. It very well may have an excellent reputation more regionally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all for the helpful advice.

We would take child for ADHD testing for sure.

Three main things I am debating about are

1. Take away or set severe limits on the extracurricular unless grades improve or child putting enough work that shows improvement is visible in homework/tests. But I am debating why take away the kids strength? Would it be even more harmful in some unknown way.

But and this is probably the more pertinent one, is taking away the extracurricular would lead to a big blow up.

2. Is there any way to remediate the F - as in taking the credit recovery? Would the F be reduced to something like a D.

3. How common is an F? Is it something like say drunk driving arrest for adults or even something worse or say speeding ticket in terms of severity? Put another way, what is the right level of panic we should be feeling?

We knew child is not going to a top 100 college. Child aim is colleges in the 120 - 180 range. Is this even on the cards now?

I do understand the feedback and none of it is harsh. I think all of you are being very kind and somewhat gentle in fact.

If credit recovery were possible he would already be doing it. I’m a teacher and credit recovery is currently taking place at my school. You had to have a 54-59 to qualify and you spend 2 weeks remediating up to a 60. But you would have heard from his teacher or counselor already if that were the case. If he was below a 54 it’s just a straight F. He could retake it next year but I don’t know that it replaces the first F, I think you need to check with his counselor.

An F isn’t the end of the world. You’re going to get parents here acting like it is. However your kid needs to realize his academic trajectory is NOT the 120-180 top college route. He will get into *a* college but not an especially impressive one. But also, an impressive college doesn’t actually mean much in the long run for most people.

If he retakes it and earns a higher grade, the previous "F" should be removed/removable from his transcript. At least in APS. My kid's counselor recommended having an "F" course in another subject removed from their transcript (and GPA calculation). It should be possible as long as they still have enough credits and have met the other requirements for graduation.

I'm struggling to understand why people think a college outside of the "recognized top 180" is unimpressive. There are thousands of colleges and universities in this country. Most of them of rather comparable quality, including with at least some of those "top 180" schools. Just because I haven't heard of some school halfway across the country doesn't mean it's an "unimpressive" school. It very well may have an excellent reputation more regionally.

I couldn’t care less about a college’s reputation tbh but I use unimpressive the way you are - lots of perfectly good schools that don’t have any particular recognition ot reputation outside of their region.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all for the helpful advice.

We would take child for ADHD testing for sure.

Three main things I am debating about are

1. Take away or set severe limits on the extracurricular unless grades improve or child putting enough work that shows improvement is visible in homework/tests. But I am debating why take away the kids strength? Would it be even more harmful in some unknown way.

But and this is probably the more pertinent one, is taking away the extracurricular would lead to a big blow up.

2. Is there any way to remediate the F - as in taking the credit recovery? Would the F be reduced to something like a D.

3. How common is an F? Is it something like say drunk driving arrest for adults or even something worse or say speeding ticket in terms of severity? Put another way, what is the right level of panic we should be feeling?

We knew child is not going to a top 100 college. Child aim is colleges in the 120 - 180 range. Is this even on the cards now?

I do understand the feedback and none of it is harsh. I think all of you are being very kind and somewhat gentle in fact.

If credit recovery were possible he would already be doing it. I’m a teacher and credit recovery is currently taking place at my school. You had to have a 54-59 to qualify and you spend 2 weeks remediating up to a 60. But you would have heard from his teacher or counselor already if that were the case. If he was below a 54 it’s just a straight F. He could retake it next year but I don’t know that it replaces the first F, I think you need to check with his counselor.

An F isn’t the end of the world. You’re going to get parents here acting like it is. However your kid needs to realize his academic trajectory is NOT the 120-180 top college route. He will get into *a* college but not an especially impressive one. But also, an impressive college doesn’t actually mean much in the long run for most people.

If he retakes it and earns a higher grade, the previous "F" should be removed/removable from his transcript. At least in APS. My kid's counselor recommended having an "F" course in another subject removed from their transcript (and GPA calculation). It should be possible as long as they still have enough credits and have met the other requirements for graduation.

I'm struggling to understand why people think a college outside of the "recognized top 180" is unimpressive. There are thousands of colleges and universities in this country. Most of them of rather comparable quality, including with at least some of those "top 180" schools. Just because I haven't heard of some school halfway across the country doesn't mean it's an "unimpressive" school. It very well may have an excellent reputation more regionally.

The F doesn't get removed from the transcript. I have spoken to many people in APS about this because I am a PP whose kid failed algebra II in school and had to re-take it over the summer. Their GPA calculation is based on the new grade, but the failing grade remains on the official transcript.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks all for the helpful advice.

We would take child for ADHD testing for sure.

Three main things I am debating about are

1. Take away or set severe limits on the extracurricular unless grades improve or child putting enough work that shows improvement is visible in homework/tests. But I am debating why take away the kids strength? Would it be even more harmful in some unknown way.

But and this is probably the more pertinent one, is taking away the extracurricular would lead to a big blow up.

2. Is there any way to remediate the F - as in taking the credit recovery? Would the F be reduced to something like a D.

3. How common is an F? Is it something like say drunk driving arrest for adults or even something worse or say speeding ticket in terms of severity? Put another way, what is the right level of panic we should be feeling?

We knew child is not going to a top 100 college. Child aim is colleges in the 120 - 180 range. Is this even on the cards now?

I do understand the feedback and none of it is harsh. I think all of you are being very kind and somewhat gentle in fact.

As to #1, only you know your child and your relationship with him. Of course he isn't going to like having anything he likes taken away, let along something he's passionate about and loves. Depending on him and your relationship, you could have a serious sit-down chat first and explain what's going to happen, as well as what's going to happen if those things don't happen. If you can't bring yourself to take away the extracurricular (I empathize -- with one of our kids who hated school, low confidence and other issues, taking away the one thing they did enjoy and were successful in was precisely the wrong thing to do to. I don't think our situations are the same, however) -- anyway, if you can't bring yourself to do that or there is a real chance he will rebel and start doing worse in other areas, then start with something else. If it isn't taking away some privilege, then it is DOING specific things to get back on track with his math (repeating the class, getting a tutor and/or following a set schedule of math practice - with that tutor or even Khan Academy or other free option; overseeing his math homework every night - if he doesn't do it, no extracurricular the next day; etc.) If he doesn't follow the plan, privileges start going away - and you can start "small" to see how he reacts to that.

I'm not sure why so many are focusing on ADHD, given this is one specific class in a subject he has previously earned A's in. A to F is a real drop. I'm the one who previously posted about the possibility he just intentionally gave up because it was hard and didn't want to be a failure (due to his own inability). You report his other grades remained fine. So if it isn't that, it is clearly something about Alg2 or about this particular class (group of kids) or this particular teacher.

You don't indicate what communications you've had with his teacher throughout the year or what they think may be the issue. If it really is a matter of believing it's not important because the GPA is the biggest thing, then (1) he needs to learn that's not entirely true, that colleges look at your whole courseload and grades to see what you've taken and how well you've done; and that A to F in math is going to really stand out and pose a big "WHY?" Math is cumulative; so if he thinks he will just jump back in with the next course, he should rethink that. He really does need to retake Alg2 whether it's over the summer or during the next school year. (2) You might want to try appealing to the idea that it isn't about a specific GPA, rather the integrity and benefits of striving to do your best or giving your best effort to everything you do. It's about character and values; learning; getting the best education he can and becoming an educated person; learning that you have to do a lot of crap you don't enjoy or aren't the best at in order to do what you like in life; etc.


Re #2, as I suggested above, he needs to retake the course. Not just a matter of getting a D instead of an F, but to be properly prepared for the next level math class. Even if he doesn't intend to take another one in high school, I guarantee you he will then have to take one in college.

Re #3, you don't have to "panic" at all at this point. If things worsen and his other grades start going down or you see his enthusiasm or effort in other areas (particularly in anything and everything except his extracurricular passion), then you step up the seriousness of it all accordingly. Don't let "panic" or your anxiety show through to him; but definitely ensure he knows you take it seriously and expect him to do the same.

Finally, if he doesn't make it into the 120-180 schools --- SO WHAT??!! He will find his way in life. It may not be the way you hoped or dreamed or envisioned as the parent. It may be a more difficult path for him; but he will learn from that. How do I know? Because I'm experiencing that as the parent right now. Our kid has found a way to pursue what he apparently has really always wanted to do despite doing poorly (far below his ability and talents) in school and his hard work trying to figure out a way that does not involve college. Finally decided it will involve college, didn't get in to an 90% acceptance rate state college and decided to do the 2 years at community college with guaranteed admission to state university to finish the 4 years. Not how we envisioned or hoped when we became parents; but happy to save the tuition and very happy he's going to college and happy in his chosen area (so far, anyway!). Not only that, after his first year, he has a 3.8 GPA.

Tell your son the reason we believe ours did not get accepted into the state university - despite meeting minimum GPA expectations - is his lack of college prep classes in high school, including not going beyond Alg2 in math.

Wow! This is really helpful. I need to read this a few more times. Thank you!!

[Anonymous]

Regarding attending 120 -180 ranked schools, the reason I bring it up is because child thinks that is not going to be a problem at all, even now.

Attitude is, I got an F, it is not the end of the world, I am still getting into colleges 120-180 that I want, so why is this even a problem? You can understand why my blood boils over this.

My question is, is the above true? Is it possible to get into these colleges with the current grades. Assuming child would say get a B or an A next year repeating the class. Current GPA is just above 3.

If child comes to believe that the above is not true, it pretty much solves the problem. As it is mainly one of effort. It is almost as if child thinks, putting in any additional effort to get higher grades is "time wasted down the drain".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Regarding attending 120 -180 ranked schools, the reason I bring it up is because child thinks that is not going to be a problem at all, even now.

Attitude is, I got an F, it is not the end of the world, I am still getting into colleges 120-180 that I want, so why is this even a problem? You can understand why my blood boils over this.

My question is, is the above true? Is it possible to get into these colleges with the current grades. Assuming child would say get a B or an A next year repeating the class. Current GPA is just above 3.

If child comes to believe that the above is not true, it pretty much solves the problem. As it is mainly one of effort. It is almost as if child thinks, putting in any additional effort to get higher grades is "time wasted down the drain".

PP told you he should call one of his top choices and just ask already. He's got nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Regarding attending 120 -180 ranked schools, the reason I bring it up is because child thinks that is not going to be a problem at all, even now.

Attitude is, I got an F, it is not the end of the world, I am still getting into colleges 120-180 that I want, so why is this even a problem? You can understand why my blood boils over this.

My question is, is the above true? Is it possible to get into these colleges with the current grades. Assuming child would say get a B or an A next year repeating the class. Current GPA is just above 3.

If child comes to believe that the above is not true, it pretty much solves the problem. As it is mainly one of effort. It is almost as if child thinks, putting in any additional effort to get higher grades is "time wasted down the drain".

I do not think with a 3.0 gpa he should assume he is getting into a top 200 school. I could be wrong. That is not a sure thing though absent other very impressive application attributes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Regarding attending 120 -180 ranked schools, the reason I bring it up is because child thinks that is not going to be a problem at all, even now.

Attitude is, I got an F, it is not the end of the world, I am still getting into colleges 120-180 that I want, so why is this even a problem? You can understand why my blood boils over this.

My question is, is the above true? Is it possible to get into these colleges with the current grades. Assuming child would say get a B or an A next year repeating the class. Current GPA is just above 3.

If child comes to believe that the above is not true, it pretty much solves the problem. As it is mainly one of effort. It is almost as if child thinks, putting in any additional effort to get higher grades is "time wasted down the drain".

PP told you he should call one of his top choices and just ask already. He's got nothing to lose and everything to gain.

No school is going to say anything definitive. They all claim to look at each application "holistically" and there are no absolute cut-offs. I don't think calling would yield the results that OP might want or need.

[Anonymous]

Have you talked with the school, OP? I’d seek out some input from the math teacher and guidance counselor about what went wrong and how to get your student back on track.