How bad is it if you fail Algebra - Physical health issues also involved

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No chance of ADHD, unless it only started in the last 5 months.

What blows away my mind is this - my child helps with homework/questions on some of the Algebra 2 topics earlier in the year to our neighbor's child who is in the same class. So not like child does not understand or finding it difficult. Attitude is a B is good enough for what the college I want to go to, so why bother. It is working fine, until the health issue. Then it seemed like, I have this health issue, maybe I do not even need a B. Not sure if that is the thinking but seems like it.

We're trying to find explanations of why an otherwise intelligent child would distribute their time and effort in such a damaging way - make no mistake, colleges place immense importance on math, even for non-STEM majors. It's a proxy for IQ (as wrong as that may be for certain people!).

ADHD, and its resulting dysregulation, would be an easy explanation. It often becomes visible in high school when kids suddenly face more demands on their executive function than they are capable of managing. It's not that ADHD "appears", it's that ADHD is finally revealed.

If it's not ADHD, it could be sudden teen rebellion, perhaps explained by hormones plus anxiety about the diagnosis and the fear of being able to achieve as before.

The point, OP, is that none of this looks good for colleges. If your kid has straight As in all classes for high school, except that one blip in 10th grade algebra, then they can write a little explanation on a dedicated part of the Common App that their math progress was perturbed by a temporary medical issue. But that means buckling up as of today, studying this summer, and changing their whole outlook on school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry I was not clear. Child is in Algebra 2 in 10th grade. A in both Algebra 1 and Geometry.

This year there is a health issue that should be resolved in the next few months. But child used it as an excuse and did not use the accommodations teachers were glad to provide.

There is an class and extracurricular where the teacher thinks the child is the best they have seen in their 20+ odd years and child spends way too much time on this to the hinderance of studies. If you talk to this teacher and another outside coach for this extracurricular vs. math/science teachers, the difference is night and day. These extracurricular teacher made child a captain in 10th grade, which never seems to have happened. Child spends all the time on this activity and gives studies minimal attention.

In math the problem is simply not practicing enough as in not doing given homework.

How would you approach in this case?

Is the EC class a non-mathematicsk subject that could be a legit career? If so, you get off the core academic track and focus on growing into that career.

[Anonymous]

Stop the clock.

Unenroll from school due to health issues.

Study at home for a semester or year.

Re enroll in school for 2 more years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No chance of ADHD, unless it only started in the last 5 months.

What blows away my mind is this - my child helps with homework/questions on some of the Algebra 2 topics earlier in the year to our neighbor's child who is in the same class. So not like child does not understand or finding it difficult. Attitude is a B is good enough for what the college I want to go to, so why bother. It is working fine, until the health issue. Then it seemed like, I have this health issue, maybe I do not even need a B. Not sure if that is the thinking but seems like it.

What do you mean no chance of ADHD? It could have been there all along but you just were not aware because they were managing to keep it together until it all got to be too much. Please get your child evaluated. It can do so much harm to blame the child for something out of their control.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No chance of ADHD, unless it only started in the last 5 months.

What blows away my mind is this - my child helps with homework/questions on some of the Algebra 2 topics earlier in the year to our neighbor's child who is in the same class. So not like child does not understand or finding it difficult. Attitude is a B is good enough for what the college I want to go to, so why bother. It is working fine, until the health issue. Then it seemed like, I have this health issue, maybe I do not even need a B. Not sure if that is the thinking but seems like it.

What do you mean no chance of ADHD? It could have been there all along but you just were not aware because they were managing to keep it together until it all got to be too much. Please get your child evaluated. It can do so much harm to blame the child for something out of their control.

We have friends whose children have ADHD and child does not exhibit any similarities. But of course we are not really familiar with ADHD.

To us child is pretty normal. People person. Gets along with everyone. Organizes events, can manage a bunch of people to do something for hours, etc.

Would you still recommend getting child evaluated?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry I was not clear. Child is in Algebra 2 in 10th grade. A in both Algebra 1 and Geometry.

This year there is a health issue that should be resolved in the next few months. But child used it as an excuse and did not use the accommodations teachers were glad to provide.

There is an class and extracurricular where the teacher thinks the child is the best they have seen in their 20+ odd years and child spends way too much time on this to the hinderance of studies. If you talk to this teacher and another outside coach for this extracurricular vs. math/science teachers, the difference is night and day. These extracurricular teacher made child a captain in 10th grade, which never seems to have happened. Child spends all the time on this activity and gives studies minimal attention.

In math the problem is simply not practicing enough as in not doing given homework.

How would you approach in this case?

Is the EC class a non-mathematicsk subject that could be a legit career? If so, you get off the core academic track and focus on growing into that career.

Could be a viable career but that has a very low chance of success. Kind of like probability of success to get into NBA or NFL.

Thinking is, I am interested in career X and colleges A, B, C. None of them need a GPA of A. So why do all the work when B is good enough. It was going to plan until this year end.

Can child get into VCU for example?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No chance of ADHD, unless it only started in the last 5 months.

What blows away my mind is this - my child helps with homework/questions on some of the Algebra 2 topics earlier in the year to our neighbor's child who is in the same class. So not like child does not understand or finding it difficult. Attitude is a B is good enough for what the college I want to go to, so why bother. It is working fine, until the health issue. Then it seemed like, I have this health issue, maybe I do not even need a B. Not sure if that is the thinking but seems like it.

We're trying to find explanations of why an otherwise intelligent child would distribute their time and effort in such a damaging way - make no mistake, colleges place immense importance on math, even for non-STEM majors. It's a proxy for IQ (as wrong as that may be for certain people!).

ADHD, and its resulting dysregulation, would be an easy explanation. It often becomes visible in high school when kids suddenly face more demands on their executive function than they are capable of managing. It's not that ADHD "appears", it's that ADHD is finally revealed.

If it's not ADHD, it could be sudden teen rebellion, perhaps explained by hormones plus anxiety about the diagnosis and the fear of being able to achieve as before.

The point, OP, is that none of this looks good for colleges. If your kid has straight As in all classes for high school, except that one blip in 10th grade algebra, then they can write a little explanation on a dedicated part of the Common App that their math progress was perturbed by a temporary medical issue. But that means buckling up as of today, studying this summer, and changing their whole outlook on school.

Agree 100% with what you wrote.

Child wont listen. Think they know it all. We just dont know what to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No chance of ADHD, unless it only started in the last 5 months.

What blows away my mind is this - my child helps with homework/questions on some of the Algebra 2 topics earlier in the year to our neighbor's child who is in the same class. So not like child does not understand or finding it difficult. Attitude is a B is good enough for what the college I want to go to, so why bother. It is working fine, until the health issue. Then it seemed like, I have this health issue, maybe I do not even need a B. Not sure if that is the thinking but seems like it.

We're trying to find explanations of why an otherwise intelligent child would distribute their time and effort in such a damaging way - make no mistake, colleges place immense importance on math, even for non-STEM majors. It's a proxy for IQ (as wrong as that may be for certain people!).

ADHD, and its resulting dysregulation, would be an easy explanation. It often becomes visible in high school when kids suddenly face more demands on their executive function than they are capable of managing. It's not that ADHD "appears", it's that ADHD is finally revealed.

If it's not ADHD, it could be sudden teen rebellion, perhaps explained by hormones plus anxiety about the diagnosis and the fear of being able to achieve as before.

The point, OP, is that none of this looks good for colleges. If your kid has straight As in all classes for high school, except that one blip in 10th grade algebra, then they can write a little explanation on a dedicated part of the Common App that their math progress was perturbed by a temporary medical issue. But that means buckling up as of today, studying this summer, and changing their whole outlook on school.

Agree 100% with what you wrote.

Child wont listen. Think they know it all. We just dont know what to do.

Well, what can you do. The teachers tried to help, he didn’t want the help. He’s confident he only needs a B-C average GPA to get into his program, so that’s the only effort you’re going to get from him. This probably is more related to that mindset than his health issues since the health issue didn’t impact preferred classes.

Ultimately you can’t do the work for him so if this is his approach , he will be the one to deal with whatever impact it has on college. He WILL get into a college no matter what - colleges want your money. The one YOU would have preferred - possibly not but it really doesn’t matter. You won’t be the first or last parent whose smart kid took a very average path and didn’t end up being an Ivy bound academic superstar.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry I was not clear. Child is in Algebra 2 in 10th grade. A in both Algebra 1 and Geometry.

This year there is a health issue that should be resolved in the next few months. But child used it as an excuse and did not use the accommodations teachers were glad to provide.

There is an class and extracurricular where the teacher thinks the child is the best they have seen in their 20+ odd years and child spends way too much time on this to the hinderance of studies. If you talk to this teacher and another outside coach for this extracurricular vs. math/science teachers, the difference is night and day. These extracurricular teacher made child a captain in 10th grade, which never seems to have happened. Child spends all the time on this activity and gives studies minimal attention.

In math the problem is simply not practicing enough as in not doing given homework.

How would you approach in this case?

Unless there is an actual lack of aptitude for math above Algebra1 in which they earned an A (unlikely), I'd say that extracurricular your child is so superior in goes on hold until they start doing their homework regularly and their math grade significantly improves. If their extracurricular is a sport, they have to meet minimum academic standards to continue participation. I doubt passing Alg2 is a requirement; but the GPA is. You should ask whether being on track with required graduation requirements impact the extracurricular activity eligibility, though it seems that also is not pertinent to your child's situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No chance of ADHD, unless it only started in the last 5 months.

What blows away my mind is this - my child helps with homework/questions on some of the Algebra 2 topics earlier in the year to our neighbor's child who is in the same class. So not like child does not understand or finding it difficult. Attitude is a B is good enough for what the college I want to go to, so why bother. It is working fine, until the health issue. Then it seemed like, I have this health issue, maybe I do not even need a B. Not sure if that is the thinking but seems like it.

Is your child always a straight A student? Perhaps they see "B" as a failure and out of fear of not getting an "A," they sabotaged themselves by intentionally getting an "F" instead of working hard and only getting a "B" instead of an "A." My daughter has easily gotten almost all As all the way through her junior year. It seemed to me that if she had to work a little bit and study for a "B" (math, of course), she believed it was hard and she wasn't any good at it.
By intentionally not doing the work and failing, your son has an excuse for the "F" -- one that isn't due to his ability. Whereas if he tried and still got a "B," maybe he would take that to mean he's not so smart after all.

Just one theory.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry I was not clear. Child is in Algebra 2 in 10th grade. A in both Algebra 1 and Geometry.

This year there is a health issue that should be resolved in the next few months. But child used it as an excuse and did not use the accommodations teachers were glad to provide.

There is an class and extracurricular where the teacher thinks the child is the best they have seen in their 20+ odd years and child spends way too much time on this to the hinderance of studies. If you talk to this teacher and another outside coach for this extracurricular vs. math/science teachers, the difference is night and day. These extracurricular teacher made child a captain in 10th grade, which never seems to have happened. Child spends all the time on this activity and gives studies minimal attention.

In math the problem is simply not practicing enough as in not doing given homework.

How would you approach in this case?

Is the EC class a non-mathematicsk subject that could be a legit career? If so, you get off the core academic track and focus on growing into that career.

Could be a viable career but that has a very low chance of success. Kind of like probability of success to get into NBA or NFL.

Thinking is, I am interested in career X and colleges A, B, C. None of them need a GPA of A. So why do all the work when B is good enough. It was going to plan until this year end.

Can child get into VCU for example?

You take this away until they show they’re mature enough to handle school too.

You don’t risk your entire future over a long shot, because as you say, even the most talented people in those fields sometimes never make it.

Would I say the same thing about a B or C? No. Not everyone needs to have a 4.0. But FAILING a class? No way. Your extracurricular is gone till you fix it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No chance of ADHD, unless it only started in the last 5 months.

What blows away my mind is this - my child helps with homework/questions on some of the Algebra 2 topics earlier in the year to our neighbor's child who is in the same class. So not like child does not understand or finding it difficult. Attitude is a B is good enough for what the college I want to go to, so why bother. It is working fine, until the health issue. Then it seemed like, I have this health issue, maybe I do not even need a B. Not sure if that is the thinking but seems like it.

What do you mean no chance of ADHD? It could have been there all along but you just were not aware because they were managing to keep it together until it all got to be too much. Please get your child evaluated. It can do so much harm to blame the child for something out of their control.

We have friends whose children have ADHD and child does not exhibit any similarities. But of course we are not really familiar with ADHD.

To us child is pretty normal. People person. Gets along with everyone. Organizes events, can manage a bunch of people to do something for hours, etc.

Would you still recommend getting child evaluated?

Of course! Why do you think there's only one profile of ADHD? Seriously, wake up and help your kid. I recommend Stixrud in Silver Spring. They do full neuropsychological evaluations, which is very important because kids with issues often don't just have one, and you don't know which one is holding them back the most. It's going to be 5K, and there is a waitlist, so call tomorrow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No chance of ADHD, unless it only started in the last 5 months.

What blows away my mind is this - my child helps with homework/questions on some of the Algebra 2 topics earlier in the year to our neighbor's child who is in the same class. So not like child does not understand or finding it difficult. Attitude is a B is good enough for what the college I want to go to, so why bother. It is working fine, until the health issue. Then it seemed like, I have this health issue, maybe I do not even need a B. Not sure if that is the thinking but seems like it.

We're trying to find explanations of why an otherwise intelligent child would distribute their time and effort in such a damaging way - make no mistake, colleges place immense importance on math, even for non-STEM majors. It's a proxy for IQ (as wrong as that may be for certain people!).

ADHD, and its resulting dysregulation, would be an easy explanation. It often becomes visible in high school when kids suddenly face more demands on their executive function than they are capable of managing. It's not that ADHD "appears", it's that ADHD is finally revealed.

If it's not ADHD, it could be sudden teen rebellion, perhaps explained by hormones plus anxiety about the diagnosis and the fear of being able to achieve as before.

The point, OP, is that none of this looks good for colleges. If your kid has straight As in all classes for high school, except that one blip in 10th grade algebra, then they can write a little explanation on a dedicated part of the Common App that their math progress was perturbed by a temporary medical issue. But that means buckling up as of today, studying this summer, and changing their whole outlook on school.

Agree 100% with what you wrote.

Child wont listen. Think they know it all. We just dont know what to do.

Then no privileges until everything sinks in, OP. No phone, no money, no driving lessons, no fun extras. Drilling math this summer. YOU are the parent. For a couple of years, you still call the shots. Make the most of it (and get them evaluated, because a lot of this could be out of their control).

Also, when you read that the threshhold is X gpa/scores, or that most kids are accepted with X gpa/scores... be very careful. The information on the internet is outdated by a crucial few years, unless you find specific data for the previous year of admitted students. Don't ever think that just because threshhold is reputedly X, your kid with barely an X will get in. Not at all. Usually it takes more. The kid who gets in with the bare minimum has other hooks.

[Anonymous]

I apologize for being harsh, OP, but this isn't the profile of a particularly smart teen. Sure, he's not dumb. But he's really not special in any way. High school difficulties in math are extremely common (practically the norm), because that's the usual time when math starts getting a little too abstract for most people. Kids need to overcome that with consistent, regular work - something that perhaps your kid has never done outside of his passion. This is when you see who the organized, hard workers are - the wheat separates from the chaff. It's also when late ADHD diagnoses happen to reveal themselves.

Has he done any AP courses at all? Honors don't count - Honors is the new Regular, and Regular is the new Remedial. If he hasn't done well in an AP course yet, he's probably never needed to work hard, and Algebra 2 was the first challenge he ever had. Which considering he's doing it in 10th, doesn't put him in the top group of students. Nearly all the kids I know do Algebra 2 in 9th, and one of my kids did Algebra 2 in 8th. They all start at least one AP class in 9th, to spread the load a bit. My oldest graduated with 12 APs and a 4.7 weighted GPA, and his State U didn't even offer him merit aid. Because my kid wasn't that special!

Maybe you need to reframe a bit.

[Anonymous]

Thanks all for the helpful advice.

We would take child for ADHD testing for sure.

Three main things I am debating about are

1. Take away or set severe limits on the extracurricular unless grades improve or child putting enough work that shows improvement is visible in homework/tests. But I am debating why take away the kids strength? Would it be even more harmful in some unknown way.

But and this is probably the more pertinent one, is taking away the extracurricular would lead to a big blow up.

2. Is there any way to remediate the F - as in taking the credit recovery? Would the F be reduced to something like a D.

3. How common is an F? Is it something like say drunk driving arrest for adults or even something worse or say speeding ticket in terms of severity? Put another way, what is the right level of panic we should be feeling?

We knew child is not going to a top 100 college. Child aim is colleges in the 120 - 180 range. Is this even on the cards now?

I do understand the feedback and none of it is harsh. I think all of you are being very kind and somewhat gentle in fact.