Long term care insurance

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We were really surprised to find out that no particular nursing home is obligated to accept your LTC insurance. We were fortunate that when we suddenly needed to find a facility for our mom there was one available that took her insurance. If you think you might want to end up at a particular place some day make sure they take whatever your insurance is. Of course that could change.

Of course they are not obligated to take any LTC insurance. Most plans will not provide full coverage. You will still be paying the difference. Most plans pay out at most $200/day, and don't kick in for 30-60 days. That's only $6K/month, after you pay the first 1-2 months of expenses. Most decent assisted living/nursing care will cost more than that.
Also, most plans only cover 1-2 years. If you end up living longer, it's all on you. There are plenty of people who require assisted living for more than 2 years.

IMO, it's better to simply save the money yourself for retirement

[Anonymous]

This website has a good overview of policies (I am not affiliated with them in any way): https://longtermcareinsurancepartner.com/long-term-care-insurance-companies

Why not start there and see if it makes sense with your finances? Can you self insure? What is your family history and your spouse's? What will happen if you our your spouse suddenly needs care?

I don't see any harm in spending some time looking at policies, then deciding for yourself if it makes sense.

There are policies that offer unlimited benefits still...look at OneAmerica. Personally I would only get unlimited benefits with inflation protection that covers 50% of costs, then self-insure the rest.

A top tier memory care place in DC for a moderate/high care level (which happens pretty quickly unfortunately....) is currently $15k a month. Most are living longer these days, and the risk of cognitive issues goes up the longer you live. That's $180k a year. If only one spouse needs it for 2 years, that's $360,000. Double that if both spouses need it, or if one needs it longer than 2 years. Home health care aides from licensed places are about $32/hour in DC. The costs are insane...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not worth getting. We do not have it. Like another poster, we would prefer to succumb to whatever illness leaves us needing that kind of care. We have seen it and it's not a life we would want at any price.

Signed,
retired people in late 60's

I don't understand these types of comments. NOBODY WANTS to go into dementia care facilities. But if you become too much for your 80 yr old spouse to care for 24 hrs/day, 7 days/week, THEY are going to put you in a facility, and you better have some $$$$$ to pay for it.

Are you suggesting that if you have dementia, you are going to take yourself out? If not, then you don't get to just decide that you are going to "succumb" to dementia or Parkinsons. Your relatives/spouse have to deal with your needs until you eventually "succumb" -- which may be 3-10 yrs. They may not be willing to change your diapers. They may prefer to put you in a facility where you can't wander out the door at 2 a.m. in the freezing cold winter. Gotta have $$$$$.

Yeah these "just OD me" posts are stupid and irresponsible. Your kids aren't going to smother you with a pillow or put you in a sht-tier state-run facility. They aren't going to provide at-home dementia care either. They are going to put you in a facility. That means it's on you to make sure you have money to pay for it.

Are medicaid facilities that bad? There's a lawyer on Tiktok that talks about how to 'protect' your assets, even within the 5-year window, to avail Medicaid facilities in FL. The examples he talks about are families with upto $3-4 mil. Why would they want to spend the rest of their lives in a poor facility if it was that bad?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that you can't get the policies once available in the past. Do know someone with advanced Parkinsons who's received around the clock care for 20+ years, at home, due to the LTC she signed up for back in the 1980s. But you cannot get that policy at all these days. She was lucky.

For those too poor to pay for this kinda care, does medicaid cover such care?

[Anonymous]

From my understanding, the policies in the past were too good for the recipient, causing insurers to pull out of the market. Then the policies became too bad with limited payouts and significant premium increases. Now I hear rumblings of some improvements in the insurance market. There is going to be a significantly aging population. So my thought is to not buy yet, but stay tuned.
I fall in the bracket where it's most suggested for--too rich that my assets will be depleted and I'll have to rely on Medicaid, rich enough to afford insurance premiums, but too poor to self-insure for the worst outcomes (our net worth is 2.5m at this point in our 50s) and with a family history of longevity.

[Anonymous]

I think there is a pretty narrow segment of the population that can benefit. The majority of people are too poor to afford these policies. People with significant wealth don’t need them as they can self-insure more cheaply, or rather the net impact of very high costs for a prolonged period will just be a smaller inheritance for their children. For those in the middle, say a couple with a total net worth of $400k to $800k, it might be worth looking into.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a pretty narrow segment of the population that can benefit. The majority of people are too poor to afford these policies. People with significant wealth don’t need them as they can self-insure more cheaply, or rather the net impact of very high costs for a prolonged period will just be a smaller inheritance for their children. For those in the middle, say a couple with a total net worth of $400k to $800k, it might be worth looking into.

I'm the poster above you and everything I've read puts those numbers as higher--more like in the 800-2.5m range as the range that could potentially be the ones who need it--and some of the calculators I've used seem to bear this out. What makes you think this is the range? I'd love to think I'm rich enough not to bother with it .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a pretty narrow segment of the population that can benefit. The majority of people are too poor to afford these policies. People with significant wealth don’t need them as they can self-insure more cheaply, or rather the net impact of very high costs for a prolonged period will just be a smaller inheritance for their children. For those in the middle, say a couple with a total net worth of $400k to $800k, it might be worth looking into.

I'm the poster above you and everything I've read puts those numbers as higher--more like in the 800-2.5m range as the range that could potentially be the ones who need it--and some of the calculators I've used seem to bear this out. What makes you think this is the range? I'd love to think I'm rich enough not to bother with it .

Sorry. I just came up with numbers that seemed plausible to me off the top of my head. I would probably go with the “everything you have read”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think there is a pretty narrow segment of the population that can benefit. The majority of people are too poor to afford these policies. People with significant wealth don’t need them as they can self-insure more cheaply, or rather the net impact of very high costs for a prolonged period will just be a smaller inheritance for their children. For those in the middle, say a couple with a total net worth of $400k to $800k, it might be worth looking into.

I'm the poster above you and everything I've read puts those numbers as higher--more like in the 800-2.5m range as the range that could potentially be the ones who need it--and some of the calculators I've used seem to bear this out. What makes you think this is the range? I'd love to think I'm rich enough not to bother with it .

Sorry. I just came up with numbers that seemed plausible to me off the top of my head. I would probably go with the “everything you have read”.

Ah, ok! Thanks for the honesty and the moment of relief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Not worth getting. We do not have it. Like another poster, we would prefer to succumb to whatever illness leaves us needing that kind of care. We have seen it and it's not a life we would want at any price.

Signed,
retired people in late 60's

I don't understand these types of comments. NOBODY WANTS to go into dementia care facilities. But if you become too much for your 80 yr old spouse to care for 24 hrs/day, 7 days/week, THEY are going to put you in a facility, and you better have some $$$$$ to pay for it.

Are you suggesting that if you have dementia, you are going to take yourself out? If not, then you don't get to just decide that you are going to "succumb" to dementia or Parkinsons. Your relatives/spouse have to deal with your needs until you eventually "succumb" -- which may be 3-10 yrs. They may not be willing to change your diapers. They may prefer to put you in a facility where you can't wander out the door at 2 a.m. in the freezing cold winter. Gotta have $$$$$.

Yeah these "just OD me" posts are stupid and irresponsible. Your kids aren't going to smother you with a pillow or put you in a sht-tier state-run facility. They aren't going to provide at-home dementia care either. They are going to put you in a facility. That means it's on you to make sure you have money to pay for it.

Are medicaid facilities that bad? There's a lawyer on Tiktok that talks about how to 'protect' your assets, even within the 5-year window, to avail Medicaid facilities in FL. The examples he talks about are families with upto $3-4 mil. Why would they want to spend the rest of their lives in a poor facility if it was that bad?

I don't know about the ones in FL but the ones I've seen here and in Pittsburgh are pretty awful, especially compared to a "full pay" facility.

[Anonymous]

I bought into the federal LTC plan at the age of 24 (now in my 30s). I have an unlimited policy with a 4% inflation protection which is currently just shy of $150/day. premium is currently $93/month which will go up to $115 in 2025 and $141 in 2026. i am under 40 so the IRS allows me to use my HSA money toward LTC premiums up to a certain amount (it's not much).

i think i will weather the storm and ride this one out. but, the plan is to not need until much later on in life. the thing that makes me want to hold on to it is because i don't see many options right now for unlimited policies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I bought into the federal LTC plan at the age of 24 (now in my 30s). I have an unlimited policy with a 4% inflation protection which is currently just shy of $150/day. premium is currently $93/month which will go up to $115 in 2025 and $141 in 2026. i am under 40 so the IRS allows me to use my HSA money toward LTC premiums up to a certain amount (it's not much).

i think i will weather the storm and ride this one out. but, the plan is to not need until much later on in life. the thing that makes me want to hold on to it is because i don't see many options right now for unlimited policies.

My Dad is currently paying $600 a day for skilled care so $150 is something but you are still kicking in a good bit. Also, be skeptical of what "unlimited" means. There is still likely a criteria for care that means you will not qualify easily. My 90year old father in law does not qualify for any assistance (yet).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My understanding is that you can't get the policies once available in the past. Do know someone with advanced Parkinsons who's received around the clock care for 20+ years, at home, due to the LTC she signed up for back in the 1980s. But you cannot get that policy at all these days. She was lucky.

For those too poor to pay for this kinda care, does medicaid cover such care?

It does but you have to spend down virtually all of your assets on acceptable things in order to get coverage. If you spend on non qualified items or give your money away I. The five years prior to application, you will have a waiting period for eligibility.

[Anonymous]

I am paying about $4500 a year for a benefit of $405 a day for a max of 5 years and $738,376.

No idea if this is a reasonable deal or not, but in general tend to over-insure.

[Anonymous]

I think it’s very unlikely that the policies available today will be of much use to anyone, since they’re both expensive, subject to premium increases and limited in benefit.

My mom had a long term care policy and it took quite a bit of wrangling to get it set up for claims when she moved to assisted living. Then she only lasted a few months. On the other hand my father is indigent and in a Medicaid facility, he’s been there for several years and no end in sight. While it’s a decent facility, it’s nothing like the nice one my mom was able to afford. You just never know.

I have an old group policy from a long-ago employer that inflation protection, premium increase caps (limited to 10% because it was issued in DC and that’s all the regulator allows) and has a paid-in-full feature at 65. Meaning only a couple more years of premiums, then I’m done. I have very few bills on autopay but this is one of them.