Per NYT, Yale now “test flexible”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This isn't shocking. From what I've heard, the professors are elite colleges are revolting behind the scenes. The level of talent admissions has brought in since test-optional took off has been substantially worse than before. Kids are going into the Ivies not being able to do difficult readings or write essays. Kids are going in with a weak grasp of algebra. Tests filter these sorts of students out.

I wonder if this is also a covid skill gap they are seeing? Some kids currently in college may have missed 2-3 years of competent math & writing instruction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The irony. My senior --5s on all APs, 36 ACT. The year scores don't matter.

I have a sophomore--hope he is a high test scorer too. lol

Things that could help always seem to change after the fact for us.

Everybody is really missing the point here. The point of reinstating scores is not to let in more high-scoring white kids from upper middleclass suburbs. In fact, it is the opposite. Reinstating required testing will allow the average test scores to go back down to reasonable levels for admission. Understand: these schools do not admit students on a sliding scale, starting with the perfect scores and going down from there. They are simply looking at test scores to ensure that students whose grades and schools do not give a complete picture can submit a test score to indicate whether they are capable of doing the work. For almost every single school in America a 1400 or even a 1350 (gasp) is plenty high. So now, underprileged students can submit those scores. During test optional, they weren't, so they were being left out. This change DOES NOT advantage high test scorers. And that's a good thing!

Correct. It's to let in naturally intelligent kids vs book smart/tutored up the wazoo borderline intelligence kids.

Not what I meant, whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The irony. My senior --5s on all APs, 36 ACT. The year scores don't matter.

I have a sophomore--hope he is a high test scorer too. lol

Things that could help always seem to change after the fact for us.

Everybody is really missing the point here. The point of reinstating scores is not to let in more high-scoring white kids from upper middleclass suburbs. In fact, it is the opposite. Reinstating required testing will allow the average test scores to go back down to reasonable levels for admission. Understand: these schools do not admit students on a sliding scale, starting with the perfect scores and going down from there. They are simply looking at test scores to ensure that students whose grades and schools do not give a complete picture can submit a test score to indicate whether they are capable of doing the work. For almost every single school in America a 1400 or even a 1350 (gasp) is plenty high. So now, underprileged students can submit those scores. During test optional, they weren't, so they were being left out. This change DOES NOT advantage high test scorers. And that's a good thing!

Correct. It's to let in naturally intelligent kids vs book smart/tutored up the wazoo borderline intelligence kids.

I'm for IQ test

[Anonymous]

Interesting comment about the covid skill gap. That is very real at many schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The irony. My senior --5s on all APs, 36 ACT. The year scores don't matter.

I have a sophomore--hope he is a high test scorer too. lol

Things that could help always seem to change after the fact for us.

Everybody is really missing the point here. The point of reinstating scores is not to let in more high-scoring white kids from upper middleclass suburbs. In fact, it is the opposite. Reinstating required testing will allow the average test scores to go back down to reasonable levels for admission. Understand: these schools do not admit students on a sliding scale, starting with the perfect scores and going down from there. They are simply looking at test scores to ensure that students whose grades and schools do not give a complete picture can submit a test score to indicate whether they are capable of doing the work. For almost every single school in America a 1400 or even a 1350 (gasp) is plenty high. So now, underprileged students can submit those scores. During test optional, they weren't, so they were being left out. This change DOES NOT advantage high test scorers. And that's a good thing!

You're not wrong, but reinstating the test undoubtedly lessens the intensity of the competition. You'll have less test-optional kids throwing their hats into the ring and hoping for a miracle.

[Anonymous]

Class of ‘24 got a bad hand.

[Anonymous]

I recall on the Dartmouth Admissions Beat Podcast, the dean from Dartmouth said they were going ‘test preferred’, they’ve since announced will be required. He then asked the Yale AO his opinion and Yale AO said he thought TO was ‘here to stay.’ Dartmouth AO was surprised by that. So quite the change for Yale, granted it’s not just SAT/ACT that they will consider. I think test required will be coming back to state schools bc on a whole, their admissions are less holistic.

[Anonymous]

I would have loved this. I got fives on all my APs but only so so SATs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I say make the kids submit all their test scores, like Georgetown does. Do away with superscoring. Colleges can elect to consider whatever they like, but at least they have an accurate full picture.

What I always ask: Why do YOU get to decide? Don’t you think he professionals in admissions who run the colleges know better than you do?

I personally like test scores and think they are valuable, but I don’t kid myself that they are absolute predictors of success and I certainly don’t think I know more than the professionals. They get to decide how to best build the class they need to meet their goals. Like every job. That’s how it should be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Class of ‘24 got a bad hand.

Or a good hand -- depends on where they landed. I know a white kid (non legacy, non athlete) who got into HYP early TO. I imagine that kid would have a much harder time next year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I say make the kids submit all their test scores, like Georgetown does. Do away with superscoring. Colleges can elect to consider whatever they like, but at least they have an accurate full picture.

What I always ask: Why do YOU get to decide? Don’t you think he professionals in admissions who run the colleges know better than you do?

I personally like test scores and think they are valuable, but I don’t kid myself that they are absolute predictors of success and I certainly don’t think I know more than the professionals. They get to decide how to best build the class they need to meet their goals. Like every job. That’s how it should be.

DP. This is one of the dumbest takes on DCUM that pops up in all sorts of areas. This is an anonymous forum, we get to opine and discuss. And we are also big stakeholders in the process so it’s natural that we would have relatively informed opinions. Not sure why you are so literal minded as to think PP expressing their informed opinion means they somehow don’t understand that the school makes the decision ultimately?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The irony. My senior --5s on all APs, 36 ACT. The year scores don't matter.

I have a sophomore--hope he is a high test scorer too. lol

Things that could help always seem to change after the fact for us.

Everybody is really missing the point here. The point of reinstating scores is not to let in more high-scoring white kids from upper middleclass suburbs. In fact, it is the opposite. Reinstating required testing will allow the average test scores to go back down to reasonable levels for admission. Understand: these schools do not admit students on a sliding scale, starting with the perfect scores and going down from there. They are simply looking at test scores to ensure that students whose grades and schools do not give a complete picture can submit a test score to indicate whether they are capable of doing the work. For almost every single school in America a 1400 or even a 1350 (gasp) is plenty high. So now, underprileged students can submit those scores. During test optional, they weren't, so they were being left out. This change DOES NOT advantage high test scorers. And that's a good thing!

You're not wrong, but reinstating the test undoubtedly lessens the intensity of the competition. You'll have less test-optional kids throwing their hats into the ring and hoping for a miracle.

For a school with a 4% acceptance rate, it won't matter much. The numerator (number accepted to yield a freshman class) stays the same. The denominator ( number of applications) will go down some.

More URMs with 1400s will get accepted.

The UMC white suburbanites with 1400s are still SOL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting comment about the covid skill gap. That is very real at many schools.

Yep. Kids who were sophomores when covid started (so college sophomores now) missed a LOT. Most of their sophomore and jr years were remote. Then senior year was much more back to normal but schools were still in recovery mode and couldn’t really very well teach to the same level of rigor as before.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The irony. My senior --5s on all APs, 36 ACT. The year scores don't matter.

I have a sophomore--hope he is a high test scorer too. lol

Things that could help always seem to change after the fact for us.

Think about how those of us from the past two cycles feel, no matter what the public explanation, it’s clear test optional led to the acceptance of kids who were not as qualified as kids with high scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I say make the kids submit all their test scores, like Georgetown does. Do away with superscoring. Colleges can elect to consider whatever they like, but at least they have an accurate full picture.

What I always ask: Why do YOU get to decide? Don’t you think he professionals in admissions who run the colleges know better than you do?

I personally like test scores and think they are valuable, but I don’t kid myself that they are absolute predictors of success and I certainly don’t think I know more than the professionals. They get to decide how to best build the class they need to meet their goals. Like every job. That’s how it should be.

DP. This is one of the dumbest takes on DCUM that pops up in all sorts of areas. This is an anonymous forum, we get to opine and discuss. And we are also big stakeholders in the process so it’s natural that we would have relatively informed opinions. Not sure why you are so literal minded as to think PP expressing their informed opinion means they somehow don’t understand that the school makes the decision ultimately?

Lol... so YOUR opinion is fine but mine is dumb?

I'll let that speak for itself.

No one is debating that they GET to decide. You are suggesting you know better than they do what is best, and I am suggesting the professionals know WAY better than you.

I'll stick with that too.