Per NYT, Yale now “test flexible”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The average SAT score nationally is 1028. The average ACT score is 19.

There are some states - Texas, Florida, Michigan, Rhode Island, Idaho, Oklahoma, West Virginia, Illinois, Indiana, New Mexico, Colorado, and DC - the lowest - that don't even break a 1000.

But students from those states are being penalized for scoring in the 1300s and 1400s.

Any student from DCPS that scores above 1300 is a hero and a bright kid. And those scores should count in context.

TO has distorted everything. Good for Yale and Dartmouth and MIT for requiring scores. A 1350 from Anacostia and similar means a lot. And it's time to stop punishing smart kids from poor schools. TO has been a disaster for them.

This. Exactly. All these small-minded posters who think they're 1500 kid didn't get in because some dumb kid who didn't have to submit their scores did are completely missing the point. Finally, incredibly bright students with 1300-1400 and 31-32 scores can have the opportunities they deserve. TO skewed the scores so high that they became irrelevant. Reinstating levels the field--for everyone--not just high-scoring, highly-tutored white kids. 1600s are really not setting kids apart from 1400s. The AOs understand this so much better than bitter DCUM parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree on the decision date. These schools may think kids take test in the late spring of junior or senior fall, but many students get started with prep before junior year.

Since going TO almost all juniors I know who were planning on taking the SAT already took it - they figured waiting longer means algebra concepts were even further removed AND, most kids have more free time
Over the summer versus during the school year when they are also doing sports/ studying for AP and if they prepped then they could also increase their chance of getting a PSAT merit award.

So announcing it now for the 2025 grads is VERY late. I know our local SAT March date was full a month back. My guess is there is going to be some mass scrambling unless all other T20s confirm TO for 2025 fall starts.

It's a couple of top schools. If kids are smart enough to get in, they will be just fine taking the SAT this spring or summer. Calm down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The problem became kids from underperforming schools who had ridiculously high GPA's. They were superstars at their schools, but performed poorly on test, mostly because their schools were sub-par. Maybe they had also started a non-profit or a business. Superstars in terms of work-ethic and passion, but not academically prepared (no fault of their own). We are talking about a Henry County Georgia (random example) public school, not a Montgomery County one. So they got to Yale/Dartmouth and were not prepared.[/quote

But so what? So they don't get straight As. Who cares? By year two they are caught up, or not? And they graduate from a top university with a lower GPA than the super stars. What is wrong with that? Their hard work provided them an incredible opportunity to be surrounded by similar peers and for an excellent education. Why should they be denied that over one stupid test?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem became kids from underperforming schools who had ridiculously high GPA's. They were superstars at their schools, but performed poorly on test, mostly because their schools were sub-par. Maybe they had also started a non-profit or a business. Superstars in terms of work-ethic and passion, but not academically prepared (no fault of their own). We are talking about a Henry County Georgia (random example) public school, not a Montgomery County one. So they got to Yale/Dartmouth and were not prepared.[/quote

But so what? So they don't get straight As. Who cares? By year two they are caught up, or not? And they graduate from a top university with a lower GPA than the super stars. What is wrong with that? Their hard work provided them an incredible opportunity to be surrounded by similar peers and for an excellent education. Why should they be denied that over one stupid test?

I don't think anything is wrong with it. I think Dartmouth didn't like it. I also wonder if they did get caught up, or not? If there was concern over graduation rates? I don't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem became kids from underperforming schools who had ridiculously high GPA's. They were superstars at their schools, but performed poorly on test, mostly because their schools were sub-par. Maybe they had also started a non-profit or a business. Superstars in terms of work-ethic and passion, but not academically prepared (no fault of their own). We are talking about a Henry County Georgia (random example) public school, not a Montgomery County one. So they got to Yale/Dartmouth and were not prepared.[/quote

But so what? So they don't get straight As. Who cares? By year two they are caught up, or not? And they graduate from a top university with a lower GPA than the super stars. What is wrong with that? Their hard work provided them an incredible opportunity to be surrounded by similar peers and for an excellent education. Why should they be denied that over one stupid test?

I don't think anything is wrong with it. I think Dartmouth didn't like it. I also wonder if they did get caught up, or not? If there was concern over graduation rates? I don't know.

Not what Dartmouth said at all. Dartmouth realized that students of color and underprivileged weren't submitting scores because the average admitted score got so high under TO that students were leaving out a very strong 1400 score and not getting in. Dartmouth didn't change in order to keep out lower scorers. They changed it to let more in. Please read, and think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The irony. My senior --5s on all APs, 36 ACT. The year scores don't matter.

I have a sophomore--hope he is a high test scorer too. lol

Things that could help always seem to change after the fact for us.

Everybody is really missing the point here. The point of reinstating scores is not to let in more high-scoring white kids from upper middleclass suburbs. In fact, it is the opposite. Reinstating required testing will allow the average test scores to go back down to reasonable levels for admission. Understand: these schools do not admit students on a sliding scale, starting with the perfect scores and going down from there. They are simply looking at test scores to ensure that students whose grades and schools do not give a complete picture can submit a test score to indicate whether they are capable of doing the work. For almost every single school in America a 1400 or even a 1350 (gasp) is plenty high. So now, underprileged students can submit those scores. During test optional, they weren't, so they were being left out. This change DOES NOT advantage high test scorers. And that's a good thing!

Spot on and well-articulated post

Yes!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Seems to be an ideal outcome. Require testing, but it can be AP or IB scores.

Interesting that Jeff found this to be a lackluster start to the thread.

“I was disappointed with the effort put into the initial post by the original poster.”

For the record, I appreciated the original posters restraint!

[Anonymous]

Somehow this makes me chuckle.

My kid had a 35 ACT during first sitting. Crushing college as a freshman on the deans list.

Denied from many schools. I'm just so happy my kid has found their way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The problem became kids from underperforming schools who had ridiculously high GPA's. They were superstars at their schools, but performed poorly on test, mostly because their schools were sub-par. Maybe they had also started a non-profit or a business. Superstars in terms of work-ethic and passion, but not academically prepared (no fault of their own). We are talking about a Henry County Georgia (random example) public school, not a Montgomery County one. So they got to Yale/Dartmouth and were not prepared.[/quote

But so what? So they don't get straight As. Who cares? By year two they are caught up, or not? And they graduate from a top university with a lower GPA than the super stars. What is wrong with that? Their hard work provided them an incredible opportunity to be surrounded by similar peers and for an excellent education. Why should they be denied that over one stupid test?

I don't think anything is wrong with it. I think Dartmouth didn't like it. I also wonder if they did get caught up, or not? If there was concern over graduation rates? I don't know.

Not what Dartmouth said at all. Dartmouth realized that students of color and underprivileged weren't submitting scores because the average admitted score got so high under TO that students were leaving out a very strong 1400 score and not getting in. Dartmouth didn't change in order to keep out lower scorers. They changed it to let more in. Please read, and think.

I read. And I think. And I know that what you read has a large amount of PR infused in to it. So not only do I read, I infuse logic. What Dartmouth “said” is certainly not the full story.

[Anonymous]

TO has distorted everything.

It really needs to go away.

[Anonymous]

Not applying to Yale obviously, but my ds is a 1350 kid and not having TO will mean he can apply almost no schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Not applying to Yale obviously, but my ds is a 1350 kid and not having TO will mean he can apply almost no schools.

What? No. Just no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not applying to Yale obviously, but my ds is a 1350 kid and not having TO will mean he can apply almost no schools.

What? No. Just no.

+1. The middle 50% of SAT scores for kids at private 4 year colleges is like 1060-1270. 1350 is more than enough for lots of schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The irony. My senior --5s on all APs, 36 ACT. The year scores don't matter.

I have a sophomore--hope he is a high test scorer too. lol

Things that could help always seem to change after the fact for us.

Everybody is really missing the point here. The point of reinstating scores is not to let in more high-scoring white kids from upper middleclass suburbs. In fact, it is the opposite. Reinstating required testing will allow the average test scores to go back down to reasonable levels for admission. Understand: these schools do not admit students on a sliding scale, starting with the perfect scores and going down from there. They are simply looking at test scores to ensure that students whose grades and schools do not give a complete picture can submit a test score to indicate whether they are capable of doing the work. For almost every single school in America a 1400 or even a 1350 (gasp) is plenty high. So now, underprileged students can submit those scores. During test optional, they weren't, so they were being left out. This change DOES NOT advantage high test scorers. And that's a good thing!

Spot on and well-articulated post

Yes!!!

+1

PP should work in admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
There are very very very few kids with a 1000 or even 1200 that think "hey let's go test optional and apply to Harvard because it's the right school for me". Because most kids know they would then struggle once at college and would definately not fit in.
So sure a few might slip thru, but most likely they have an extremely strong resume otherwise to indicate they will do well---they have to be a striver for everything else. And fact is there are not many 3.9+ GPA, taking 5+ APs (and getting 4/5s) who only can manage a 1000 on the SAT. There simply are not many kids that fit that profile.

I was following you until the part about getting 4s and 5s. AP scores are not required components of a college application, so this part is irrelevant. Anecdotally, I know a ~4.0 UW student with 10 AP exams taken and no 4s, no 5s, and two 3s (rest are 2s, a few 1s). I know another valedictorian (may be rank 2-4 actually, not sure what happened with that) who has failed all the AP exams they've taken and achieved 22-23 on their ACT. AP classes mean nothing in and of themselves, with laissez-faire teachers, dumbed down coursework, asinine grading policies, and rampant cheating in many, many high schools. I'm a high school junior with a 4.0UW, and I'm glad I'll be able to differentiate myself from my 4.0, low standardized score peers next year at least at a handful of schools