APEX - why are kids dropping out?

[Anonymous]

Anyone recall what the old standards were for admission to Apex? Any guidance of what MAP scores would suggest likely success in the program?

[Anonymous]

I had a child graduate in 2020 from APEX, so they went through the old system with a cohort of 60.

I don't recall if they used MAP scores back then (in 2016 this would have been) but they had to take a WJ-specific exam on a Saturday. There was also a form they had to fill out about ECs, etc. (a pain in the butt because the form required signatures from the coaches or whoever led the EC). I don't know if they asked MS teachers for recommendations but they might have done, and I'm sure they looked at MS grades. I have no idea what my kid's specific MAP scores were back then.

I have a current 10th grader in APEX and I have to say, it's disappointing. A cohort of 250 kids is meaningless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I had a child graduate in 2020 from APEX, so they went through the old system with a cohort of 60.

I don't recall if they used MAP scores back then (in 2016 this would have been) but they had to take a WJ-specific exam on a Saturday. There was also a form they had to fill out about ECs, etc. (a pain in the butt because the form required signatures from the coaches or whoever led the EC). I don't know if they asked MS teachers for recommendations but they might have done, and I'm sure they looked at MS grades. I have no idea what my kid's specific MAP scores were back then.

I have a current 10th grader in APEX and I have to say, it's disappointing. A cohort of 250 kids is meaningless.

Except it’s not meaningless because it removes most of the top students from the regular English and Bio classes in grade 9. I’m curious about the impact on those classes. Plus with so many kids dropping out, I imagine those classes get larger?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is that right that there is no cohorting in sophomore year for English? I don't think I realized that. My impression is that there aren't a lot of requirements for sophomore year, other than take a bunch of APs, so I'm not sure why that would drive kids out (unless they just are feeling turned off by their AP Gov class).

I have heard that they significantly changed the APEX Bio curriculum this year and made it much, much harder than Honors Bio (although on the transcript it is just reflected as Honors Bio). I don't know if some kids are maybe feeling a little burned by that. I'm a little curious what the average grades in that class are, and how it compares to the regular "honors" Bio.

They expanded the APEX program a LOT a few years ago -- maybe now they are trying to shrink it through an old-school look-to-your-left-look-to-your-right approach.

The best APEX bio teacher retired a couple years ago. APEX bio has always been harder than standard honors, but this may be a growing pains year if they are trying to teach to a test that is a month earlier than end of semester.

Has anyone mentioned this to the APEX coordinators and/or the Science department? Sounds like a problem.

I don’t think it has to do with the state test as my understanding is the issue is unique to apex bio, not the other bio classes.
I’m very curious whether the drop out rate is higher than this year because of the bio issue. After seeing the post above, I asked my kid and they confirmed that they know many people dropping solely because of bio — that the tests cover material they haven’t been taught and most of the kids are saying it is by far their hardest class, harder than the APs they are taking. This includes some kids I know are very brigjt (we’re in the test-in CES program or the magnet middle schools). Given how easy the MS science classes are, I don’t think the kids were adequately prepared for what sounds like an almost AP level class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is that right that there is no cohorting in sophomore year for English? I don't think I realized that. My impression is that there aren't a lot of requirements for sophomore year, other than take a bunch of APs, so I'm not sure why that would drive kids out (unless they just are feeling turned off by their AP Gov class).

I have heard that they significantly changed the APEX Bio curriculum this year and made it much, much harder than Honors Bio (although on the transcript it is just reflected as Honors Bio). I don't know if some kids are maybe feeling a little burned by that. I'm a little curious what the average grades in that class are, and how it compares to the regular "honors" Bio.

They expanded the APEX program a LOT a few years ago -- maybe now they are trying to shrink it through an old-school look-to-your-left-look-to-your-right approach.

The best APEX bio teacher retired a couple years ago. APEX bio has always been harder than standard honors, but this may be a growing pains year if they are trying to teach to a test that is a month earlier than end of semester.

Has anyone mentioned this to the APEX coordinators and/or the Science department? Sounds like a problem.

I don’t think it has to do with the state test as my understanding is the issue is unique to apex bio, not the other bio classes.
I’m very curious whether the drop out rate is higher than this year because of the bio issue. After seeing the post above, I asked my kid and they confirmed that they know many people dropping solely because of bio — that the tests cover material they haven’t been taught and most of the kids are saying it is by far their hardest class, harder than the APs they are taking. This includes some kids I know are very brigjt (we’re in the test-in CES program or the magnet middle schools). Given how easy the MS science classes are, I don’t think the kids were adequately prepared for what sounds like an almost AP level class.

Has anyone mentioned this to the APEX coordinators or the science department. Sounds like a problem.

[Anonymous]

If they have made it through the one-time cohorted biology, even if it was too hard, that does not seem like a good reason to drop the program - it is over.

[Anonymous]

Is there a textbook they are using in APEX-bio?

[Anonymous]

They have not made it through cohorted Biology. That's the point. My child is in APEX and is reporting that students started the new semester with high point unit test related to material covered last quarter. Many students failed that test (saying it contained material not adequately covered in the class) and would now have to spend the whole quarter digging themselves out of a failing situation. So they are dropping out of it. It seems odd that they would have a unit test to start a new semester when some of them even have a different teacher than they did when the material was taught.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They have not made it through cohorted Biology. That's the point. My child is in APEX and is reporting that students started the new semester with high point unit test related to material covered last quarter. Many students failed that test (saying it contained material not adequately covered in the class) and would now have to spend the whole quarter digging themselves out of a failing situation. So they are dropping out of it. It seems odd that they would have a unit test to start a new semester when some of them even have a different teacher than they did when the material was taught.

If this is a problem that is impacting so many students that students are leaving the program entirely, has the administration been made aware of these concerns?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Anyone recall what the old standards were for admission to Apex? Any guidance of what MAP scores would suggest likely success in the program?

No MAP scores

Written application (in our house by the kids, not the adults)
Teacher recommendations (I think 2 but it could have been 1)
And a test specific to APEX

With our first child, there were 2 classrooms of APEX students (58 students)
With our second, there were 3 classrooms (87 students)

The cohorts were good for our kids, they both had enough APs to change their college course selection for the better, both were well prepared for college, and got in where they wanted to go. Better both are happy and well adjusted

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They have not made it through cohorted Biology. That's the point. My child is in APEX and is reporting that students started the new semester with high point unit test related to material covered last quarter. Many students failed that test (saying it contained material not adequately covered in the class) and would now have to spend the whole quarter digging themselves out of a failing situation. So they are dropping out of it. It seems odd that they would have a unit test to start a new semester when some of them even have a different teacher than they did when the material was taught.

If this is a problem that is impacting so many students that students are leaving the program entirely, has the administration been made aware of these concerns?

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DS is a ninth grader in APEX. He likes it and is learning a lot but he reports that others have dropped it because they are failing APEX biology. He just told me the people teaching it plow through the material, there are no quizzes to chunk learning before big tests, and the teachers are unsympathetic to the kids who struggle. This is concerning. He says the English and AP Government classes are fine. He's doing ok in biology for now, but he says it's much more difficult than the other classes by far.

My kid is at RM, but I heard that AP Bio itself is just a hard class, period.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS is a ninth grader in APEX. He likes it and is learning a lot but he reports that others have dropped it because they are failing APEX biology. He just told me the people teaching it plow through the material, there are no quizzes to chunk learning before big tests, and the teachers are unsympathetic to the kids who struggle. This is concerning. He says the English and AP Government classes are fine. He's doing ok in biology for now, but he says it's much more difficult than the other classes by far.

My kid is at RM, but I heard that AP Bio itself is just a hard class, period.

APEX Bio is basically the cohorted Honors Bio 9th graders take. AP Bio is a two period class typically taken by 11th or 12th graders aiming for highly selective colleges studying Stem. We’re talking about 9th grade Bio here for the Apex program cohort.

[Anonymous]

DD was under the old Apex system. They only needed 6 APs with a fairly high average score. DS is now in Apex. Some kids get scared off because now they have to take 9 APs with a fairly high average score on the exam.

APEX bio was hard then and is hard now, but it prepares them well for college as well as other high school classes.

[Anonymous]

Any updates on APEX, now that current 8th grade students have been invited and need to decide whether to participate? Thank you.