Childcare : what the science says

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than shaming moms who work, how about we figure out how to improve access to high quality childcare? And improve the outcomes for children who are in daycare.

Stop shaming moms.

SAHMs who lack confidence in their decision are always going to try to shame working mothers in order to make themselves feel better. ALWAYS.

You guys shame us for being lazy and bad feminists. I was horribly abused by working mothers (midwives) my last pregnancy to the point I have PTSD and medical anxiety, I think because they thought I am stupid and wouldn't realize what they were doing. I floored that B when I interpreted ultrasound information from the images. And I am going to sue. So yeah, I don't have a high opinion of working moms. Sorry not sorry. I didn't start the war, but I will fight it.

Wow. I’m the first PP who said to stop shaming moms. I didn’t say to stop shaming “working moms” - I said “moms”. For a reason.

I’m sorry you got subpar care from midwives, I did too when I had my son years ago. The PTSD is real, and I was lucky that EMDR was helpful therapy for me.

Please don’t equate all working moms to the midwives who gave you subpar care - that’s an odd reason to think poorly of all working mothers? I’m not even a doctor, or in the medical profession, but since I was single when my son was young I had to work to pay the bills. Plus I’d be very unhappy as a sahm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I sah with my kids back then (woh full time now) and my biggest takeaway knowing all my kids friends, some who were in daycare, some who were home…it doesn’t matter. It really doesn’t. The sah kids are no more creative than daycare kids. The daycare kids don’t have better social skills. If any of them have mental health issues, they would have had them anyway. I hate these studies, they just contribute to the mommy wars. They create guilt where it’s unnecessary.

This. Thanks so much for this commentary. These studies are often cited to ensure that women feel guilty, stay out of public life and the workforce, and politicians can continue to deny everyone much needed social services like free universal childcare.

[Anonymous]

Both of mine were raised by nannies before going to preschool at 3. My oldest never got in trouble in his entire life, my youngest has odd and adhd, so it has been a roller-coaster. My H has been raised by a sahm and I'm still amazing that he's still alive and has never been arrested. These studies are meaningless because ceteris paribus is impossible in development.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To me it seems like you can't just compare kids who go to daycare vs kids who don't and only look at daycare as the determining factor in why they may have different outcomes.

What I mean is, aren't kids who are in daycare more likely to have parents who have stressful jobs/stressful lives than parents who have the privilege of having one parent stay home w/ kids? Doesn't stress factor in as a reason why those kids may be more likely to have behavior challenges? I feel like stress in the home would be more likely to contribute to behavior problems than whether or not the kid went to daycare as a toddler.

And aren't parents who choose to put their kids in daycare when they do have other options (most families don't have any other choice but to put kids in daycare as in most families, both parents have to work) also more likely to make other decisions that affect their kids' development/behavior? So if you're a family who chooses daycare when you could choose to have a SAHP or nanny instead, aren't you likely choosing daycare because your kid already exhibits difficult behavior or learning challenges or seems like they need more socialization or whatever reason and wouldn't that kid then be more likely to still have that behavior issue/learning challenge as they get older? If a kid is especially difficult at age 2, aren't they also more likely to still be a more difficult child once they reach school age?

It just seems like a study that doesn't take other factors into account.

Did you really spend that many paragraphs navel gazing about how dual income families are stressed and families with a SAHP are privileged?

There’s a lot of SAHMs out there who had no choice because they couldn’t afford childcare. Wouldn’t really call that privileged. And I I know a lot of dual income families like mine who have flexible, low stress jobs because we don’t need a single high earner bearing the stress of being a sole breadwinner.

I’m not sure being a SAHM with a big law spouse (to provide that “privilege”) is actually better than 2 parents who are home a lot. I’m glad we used daycare/preschool so I could stay in the workforce and DH can also have a low stress job that allows him to coach our kids’ sports teams even at 5 pm practices, be home for dinner every night, help handle sick days, etc. And I now have enough flexibility/seniority in my career that I am fully remote and home to get my kids off the bus every day.

OTOH, I grew up with a SAHM who was constantly stressed from handling all house/kid stuff, and a breadwinner dad who worked late and was gone on business travel a lot. Not what I wanted for my own family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than shaming moms who work, how about we figure out how to improve access to high quality childcare? And improve the outcomes for children who are in daycare.

Stop shaming moms.

SAHMs who lack confidence in their decision are always going to try to shame working mothers in order to make themselves feel better. ALWAYS.

You guys shame us for being lazy and bad feminists. I was horribly abused by working mothers (midwives) my last pregnancy to the point I have PTSD and medical anxiety, I think because they thought I am stupid and wouldn't realize what they were doing. I floored that B when I interpreted ultrasound information from the images. And I am going to sue. So yeah, I don't have a high opinion of working moms. Sorry not sorry. I didn't start the war, but I will fight it.

Omg you are a loon. A couple of women in the healthcare field that you had a bad experience with are now representative of all working moms? Do you consider all men you come across in a professional setting to be representative of working dads?

You’re not a bad feminist because you SAH, but you have some totally F’d up sexist views that you should be embarrassed to share on the internet. You may not want to talk about this to anyone IRL besides a therapist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is an interesting read with some insight. Age matters. Hours matter. SES matters.



https://criticalscience.medium.com/on-the-science-of-daycare-4d1ab4c2efb4


"Summary of effects
First, here are the effects of 15–30 hrs of daycare a week, broken down by age.
For ages 3+, there are few downsides and substantial advantages. Daycare boosts both cognitive skills (literacy and mathematics) and social skills as measured in the first few years at school.
For age 2, the findings are more mixed. This is the best age to start in terms of boosting later cognitive skills, but children are more likely to act out and be angry when they reach school.
For age 1, childcare may improve cognitive skills a little, though certainly less than starting at age 2. But it also has even larger negative effects on later behavior in school. There is no boost to social skills.
For children aged 0–12 months, daycare likely damages cognitive skills and children’s later behavior at school is even worse. There is no boost to social skills."

You’re talking about a blog post authored by some rando like it’s groundbreaking new research? Please use some critical thinking skills next time a don’t be so gullible.

[Anonymous]

This study has been linked/debunked previously

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a bit of a selection effect. I work in child care and I have noticed often some of the kids who start as toddlers do so because they were too active/out of bounds for their nanny or parent so their parents thought they needed more stimulation.

I think, because of this, kids who would probably go on to have some behavior issues anyway (even if they had stayed at home) end up in full-day child care.

I think you’re on to something here because I have a very active kid who we ended up sending to daycare earlier than planned because he seemed under stimulated at home. Surprisingly, he’s become way more easy going since he started daycare. He’s not in school yet though, and I can see the rigidity of it potentially causing issues down the road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than shaming moms who work, how about we figure out how to improve access to high quality childcare? And improve the outcomes for children who are in daycare.

Stop shaming moms.

SAHMs who lack confidence in their decision are always going to try to shame working mothers in order to make themselves feel better. ALWAYS.

You guys shame us for being lazy and bad feminists. I was horribly abused by working mothers (midwives) my last pregnancy to the point I have PTSD and medical anxiety, I think because they thought I am stupid and wouldn't realize what they were doing. I floored that B when I interpreted ultrasound information from the images. And I am going to sue. So yeah, I don't have a high opinion of working moms. Sorry not sorry. I didn't start the war, but I will fight it.

You...had a bad experience with midwives, so you hate all working mothers? Okay then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a bit of a selection effect. I work in child care and I have noticed often some of the kids who start as toddlers do so because they were too active/out of bounds for their nanny or parent so their parents thought they needed more stimulation.

I think, because of this, kids who would probably go on to have some behavior issues anyway (even if they had stayed at home) end up in full-day child care.

I really struggle with one of my kids. She's just a handful and some days I don't have the mental capacity to deal with it. I'm unable to cook dinner with her or attend to my other kids. I had wanted to stay at home with my first, but couldn't afford it. I could afford it with my last but I couldn't have done it mentally. No special needs, just a difficult child. My other kids cry too about how she sucks all the oxygen out of the room and often ruins things for them (like restaurants, activities or places we go).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me it seems like you can't just compare kids who go to daycare vs kids who don't and only look at daycare as the determining factor in why they may have different outcomes.

What I mean is, aren't kids who are in daycare more likely to have parents who have stressful jobs/stressful lives than parents who have the privilege of having one parent stay home w/ kids? Doesn't stress factor in as a reason why those kids may be more likely to have behavior challenges? I feel like stress in the home would be more likely to contribute to behavior problems than whether or not the kid went to daycare as a toddler.

And aren't parents who choose to put their kids in daycare when they do have other options (most families don't have any other choice but to put kids in daycare as in most families, both parents have to work) also more likely to make other decisions that affect their kids' development/behavior? So if you're a family who chooses daycare when you could choose to have a SAHP or nanny instead, aren't you likely choosing daycare because your kid already exhibits difficult behavior or learning challenges or seems like they need more socialization or whatever reason and wouldn't that kid then be more likely to still have that behavior issue/learning challenge as they get older? If a kid is especially difficult at age 2, aren't they also more likely to still be a more difficult child once they reach school age?

It just seems like a study that doesn't take other factors into account.

Did you really spend that many paragraphs navel gazing about how dual income families are stressed and families with a SAHP are privileged?

There’s a lot of SAHMs out there who had no choice because they couldn’t afford childcare. Wouldn’t really call that privileged. And I I know a lot of dual income families like mine who have flexible, low stress jobs because we don’t need a single high earner bearing the stress of being a sole breadwinner.

I’m not sure being a SAHM with a big law spouse (to provide that “privilege”) is actually better than 2 parents who are home a lot. I’m glad we used daycare/preschool so I could stay in the workforce and DH can also have a low stress job that allows him to coach our kids’ sports teams even at 5 pm practices, be home for dinner every night, help handle sick days, etc. And I now have enough flexibility/seniority in my career that I am fully remote and home to get my kids off the bus every day.

OTOH, I grew up with a SAHM who was constantly stressed from handling all house/kid stuff, and a breadwinner dad who worked late and was gone on business travel a lot. Not what I wanted for my own family.

How is that navel gazing? Do you know what navel gazing means?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To me it seems like you can't just compare kids who go to daycare vs kids who don't and only look at daycare as the determining factor in why they may have different outcomes.

What I mean is, aren't kids who are in daycare more likely to have parents who have stressful jobs/stressful lives than parents who have the privilege of having one parent stay home w/ kids? Doesn't stress factor in as a reason why those kids may be more likely to have behavior challenges? I feel like stress in the home would be more likely to contribute to behavior problems than whether or not the kid went to daycare as a toddler.

And aren't parents who choose to put their kids in daycare when they do have other options (most families don't have any other choice but to put kids in daycare as in most families, both parents have to work) also more likely to make other decisions that affect their kids' development/behavior? So if you're a family who chooses daycare when you could choose to have a SAHP or nanny instead, aren't you likely choosing daycare because your kid already exhibits difficult behavior or learning challenges or seems like they need more socialization or whatever reason and wouldn't that kid then be more likely to still have that behavior issue/learning challenge as they get older? If a kid is especially difficult at age 2, aren't they also more likely to still be a more difficult child once they reach school age?

It just seems like a study that doesn't take other factors into account.

Did you really spend that many paragraphs navel gazing about how dual income families are stressed and families with a SAHP are privileged?

There’s a lot of SAHMs out there who had no choice because they couldn’t afford childcare. Wouldn’t really call that privileged. And I I know a lot of dual income families like mine who have flexible, low stress jobs because we don’t need a single high earner bearing the stress of being a sole breadwinner.

I’m not sure being a SAHM with a big law spouse (to provide that “privilege”) is actually better than 2 parents who are home a lot. I’m glad we used daycare/preschool so I could stay in the workforce and DH can also have a low stress job that allows him to coach our kids’ sports teams even at 5 pm practices, be home for dinner every night, help handle sick days, etc. And I now have enough flexibility/seniority in my career that I am fully remote and home to get my kids off the bus every day.

OTOH, I grew up with a SAHM who was constantly stressed from handling all house/kid stuff, and a breadwinner dad who worked late and was gone on business travel a lot. Not what I wanted for my own family.

Agreed. I think this is the worst combo- a SAHM with a workaholic DH. Kids need both kids home. DH and I do daycare 9:30-4:30. DH is home by 5 daily to eat dinner with all of us. Nightly dinner is the hill I'll die on. So many of my male coworkers and male employees stay at work WAY later than they need to because they either aren't getting what they need to get done due to inattention during the day, or they hate coming home to the stress of their families. One jokingly told me he loves avoiding the dinner meltdowns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than shaming moms who work, how about we figure out how to improve access to high quality childcare? And improve the outcomes for children who are in daycare.

Stop shaming moms.

SAHMs who lack confidence in their decision are always going to try to shame working mothers in order to make themselves feel better. ALWAYS.

You guys shame us for being lazy and bad feminists. I was horribly abused by working mothers (midwives) my last pregnancy to the point I have PTSD and medical anxiety, I think because they thought I am stupid and wouldn't realize what they were doing. I floored that B when I interpreted ultrasound information from the images. And I am going to sue. So yeah, I don't have a high opinion of working moms. Sorry not sorry. I didn't start the war, but I will fight it.

Wow. I’m the first PP who said to stop shaming moms. I didn’t say to stop shaming “working moms” - I said “moms”. For a reason.

I’m sorry you got subpar care from midwives, I did too when I had my son years ago. The PTSD is real, and I was lucky that EMDR was helpful therapy for me.

Please don’t equate all working moms to the midwives who gave you subpar care - that’s an odd reason to think poorly of all working mothers? I’m not even a doctor, or in the medical profession, but since I was single when my son was young I had to work to pay the bills. Plus I’d be very unhappy as a sahm.

They almost killed my baby. I will have a chip on my shoulder forever. They mistreated me because they think I am stupid and because we are "poor", living on one income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than shaming moms who work, how about we figure out how to improve access to high quality childcare? And improve the outcomes for children who are in daycare.

Stop shaming moms.

SAHMs who lack confidence in their decision are always going to try to shame working mothers in order to make themselves feel better. ALWAYS.

You guys shame us for being lazy and bad feminists. I was horribly abused by working mothers (midwives) my last pregnancy to the point I have PTSD and medical anxiety, I think because they thought I am stupid and wouldn't realize what they were doing. I floored that B when I interpreted ultrasound information from the images. And I am going to sue. So yeah, I don't have a high opinion of working moms. Sorry not sorry. I didn't start the war, but I will fight it.

You...had a bad experience with midwives, so you hate all working mothers? Okay then.

Yep. They almost killed my baby. They drive up cost of living. They sneer down their nose at me. I was happy to live and let live until they almost killed my baby. So yeah, daycare is bad for kids. Deal with it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Rather than shaming moms who work, how about we figure out how to improve access to high quality childcare? And improve the outcomes for children who are in daycare.

Stop shaming moms.

SAHMs who lack confidence in their decision are always going to try to shame working mothers in order to make themselves feel better. ALWAYS.

You guys shame us for being lazy and bad feminists. I was horribly abused by working mothers (midwives) my last pregnancy to the point I have PTSD and medical anxiety, I think because they thought I am stupid and wouldn't realize what they were doing. I floored that B when I interpreted ultrasound information from the images. And I am going to sue. So yeah, I don't have a high opinion of working moms. Sorry not sorry. I didn't start the war, but I will fight it.

Wow. I’m the first PP who said to stop shaming moms. I didn’t say to stop shaming “working moms” - I said “moms”. For a reason.

I’m sorry you got subpar care from midwives, I did too when I had my son years ago. The PTSD is real, and I was lucky that EMDR was helpful therapy for me.

Please don’t equate all working moms to the midwives who gave you subpar care - that’s an odd reason to think poorly of all working mothers? I’m not even a doctor, or in the medical profession, but since I was single when my son was young I had to work to pay the bills. Plus I’d be very unhappy as a sahm.

They almost killed my baby. I will have a chip on my shoulder forever. They mistreated me because they think I am stupid and because we are "poor", living on one income.

Go to a male doctor if you’re so offended by working women. Their gender has nothing to do with whatever happened to you, nor did the fact that they were working women. Fwiw my parent was a nurse who stayed at home with me and went back later.