Big Law - HR meeting out of the blue

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sending you good vibes, OP.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Good luck OP.

It'll be okay, no matter what

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd update your resume and put out some feelers to recruiters, OP.

How were your billables?

Low billables. But the market has been slow for our group in general.

I wouldn’t keep riding on the good performance review from last year.

How does your firm normally handle performance issues? Is it multiple warnings/a PIP? Or immediate separation?

Law firms aren't like this. If there isn't enough work to support the associates on staff, they will fire some until there is a better matching of supply/demand. You can be totally competent, even well liked associate. But if there's not enough work, and the firm predicts the downturn will last, then you still have a high chance of layoff. Firms took too long in 2008 to react to the sudden downturn, and figured out they needed to be quicker - so now assume they will make firing decisions within 3 months of a slowdown. They'll do this even if you're a good lawyer - but they'll pick the least busy associate to lay off, because that is just a general indication of how much partners need/like the associate.

If you're a bad associate, you also don't get a warning - they will just let you go with severance.

OP - i would be surprised that they wouldn't give you more of a 3 month runway to come back after leave and get your feet back on the ground. It's very normal to take a while for work to pick back up. And it's not good optics to fire new moms. But how were your hours before leave? Had you been cruising a bit and already seen as one of the lesser focused associates?

BUt with all that said, in my 17 years in biglaw, I have never heard of an associate or non-equity partner having a meeting asked for by HR where it wasn't to be let go.

I've also never known a partner to join such an HR meeting.

This is op—I guess it makes it a little better that the partner is joining the meeting??

[Anonymous]

Do you have a Xanax ? Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd update your resume and put out some feelers to recruiters, OP.

How were your billables?

Low billables. But the market has been slow for our group in general.

I wouldn’t keep riding on the good performance review from last year.

How does your firm normally handle performance issues? Is it multiple warnings/a PIP? Or immediate separation?

Law firms aren't like this. If there isn't enough work to support the associates on staff, they will fire some until there is a better matching of supply/demand. You can be totally competent, even well liked associate. But if there's not enough work, and the firm predicts the downturn will last, then you still have a high chance of layoff. Firms took too long in 2008 to react to the sudden downturn, and figured out they needed to be quicker - so now assume they will make firing decisions within 3 months of a slowdown. They'll do this even if you're a good lawyer - but they'll pick the least busy associate to lay off, because that is just a general indication of how much partners need/like the associate.

If you're a bad associate, you also don't get a warning - they will just let you go with severance.

OP - i would be surprised that they wouldn't give you more of a 3 month runway to come back after leave and get your feet back on the ground. It's very normal to take a while for work to pick back up. And it's not good optics to fire new moms. But how were your hours before leave? Had you been cruising a bit and already seen as one of the lesser focused associates?

BUt with all that said, in my 17 years in biglaw, I have never heard of an associate or non-equity partner having a meeting asked for by HR where it wasn't to be let go.

Like you said, if there’s not enough work, they’ll fire people. If OP is not meeting their target, then they’ll be in the pool to be fired. Coming back from leave doesn’t exempt you from billing targets unless you have an accommodation that could reduce the target.

No, that's not true. Unless you want a reputation, you have to give associates coming back from parental leave time to ramp back up.

Nope, this is a fantasy. No one cares about “reputations”. Look at the last downturn in law. As soon as the economy picked up, people were clamoring to work at all the big firms that had just treated their associates like crap.

It’s pretty black and white when you’re talking about billing targets.

You clearly don't work in a law firm. I'm glad you think that you know how it works. Maybe it's time to get back to your 1L reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd update your resume and put out some feelers to recruiters, OP.

How were your billables?

Low billables. But the market has been slow for our group in general.

I wouldn’t keep riding on the good performance review from last year.

How does your firm normally handle performance issues? Is it multiple warnings/a PIP? Or immediate separation?

Law firms aren't like this. If there isn't enough work to support the associates on staff, they will fire some until there is a better matching of supply/demand. You can be totally competent, even well liked associate. But if there's not enough work, and the firm predicts the downturn will last, then you still have a high chance of layoff. Firms took too long in 2008 to react to the sudden downturn, and figured out they needed to be quicker - so now assume they will make firing decisions within 3 months of a slowdown. They'll do this even if you're a good lawyer - but they'll pick the least busy associate to lay off, because that is just a general indication of how much partners need/like the associate.

If you're a bad associate, you also don't get a warning - they will just let you go with severance.

OP - i would be surprised that they wouldn't give you more of a 3 month runway to come back after leave and get your feet back on the ground. It's very normal to take a while for work to pick back up. And it's not good optics to fire new moms. But how were your hours before leave? Had you been cruising a bit and already seen as one of the lesser focused associates?

BUt with all that said, in my 17 years in biglaw, I have never heard of an associate or non-equity partner having a meeting asked for by HR where it wasn't to be let go.

I've also never known a partner to join such an HR meeting.

This is op—I guess it makes it a little better that the partner is joining the meeting??

Sorry, it depends on the firm. At my old firm, these conversations were always handled by partners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd update your resume and put out some feelers to recruiters, OP.

How were your billables?

Low billables. But the market has been slow for our group in general.

I wouldn’t keep riding on the good performance review from last year.

How does your firm normally handle performance issues? Is it multiple warnings/a PIP? Or immediate separation?

Law firms aren't like this. If there isn't enough work to support the associates on staff, they will fire some until there is a better matching of supply/demand. You can be totally competent, even well liked associate. But if there's not enough work, and the firm predicts the downturn will last, then you still have a high chance of layoff. Firms took too long in 2008 to react to the sudden downturn, and figured out they needed to be quicker - so now assume they will make firing decisions within 3 months of a slowdown. They'll do this even if you're a good lawyer - but they'll pick the least busy associate to lay off, because that is just a general indication of how much partners need/like the associate.

If you're a bad associate, you also don't get a warning - they will just let you go with severance.

OP - i would be surprised that they wouldn't give you more of a 3 month runway to come back after leave and get your feet back on the ground. It's very normal to take a while for work to pick back up. And it's not good optics to fire new moms. But how were your hours before leave? Had you been cruising a bit and already seen as one of the lesser focused associates?

BUt with all that said, in my 17 years in biglaw, I have never heard of an associate or non-equity partner having a meeting asked for by HR where it wasn't to be let go.

I've also never known a partner to join such an HR meeting.

This is op—I guess it makes it a little better that the partner is joining the meeting??

Sorry, it depends on the firm. At my old firm, these conversations were always handled by partners.

Mine too. Practice section leader + HR person. Practice section leader lowers the boom and HR talks about severance + COBRA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'd update your resume and put out some feelers to recruiters, OP.

How were your billables?

Low billables. But the market has been slow for our group in general.

I wouldn’t keep riding on the good performance review from last year.

How does your firm normally handle performance issues? Is it multiple warnings/a PIP? Or immediate separation?

Law firms aren't like this. If there isn't enough work to support the associates on staff, they will fire some until there is a better matching of supply/demand. You can be totally competent, even well liked associate. But if there's not enough work, and the firm predicts the downturn will last, then you still have a high chance of layoff. Firms took too long in 2008 to react to the sudden downturn, and figured out they needed to be quicker - so now assume they will make firing decisions within 3 months of a slowdown. They'll do this even if you're a good lawyer - but they'll pick the least busy associate to lay off, because that is just a general indication of how much partners need/like the associate.

If you're a bad associate, you also don't get a warning - they will just let you go with severance.

OP - i would be surprised that they wouldn't give you more of a 3 month runway to come back after leave and get your feet back on the ground. It's very normal to take a while for work to pick back up. And it's not good optics to fire new moms. But how were your hours before leave? Had you been cruising a bit and already seen as one of the lesser focused associates?

BUt with all that said, in my 17 years in biglaw, I have never heard of an associate or non-equity partner having a meeting asked for by HR where it wasn't to be let go.

Like you said, if there’s not enough work, they’ll fire people. If OP is not meeting their target, then they’ll be in the pool to be fired. Coming back from leave doesn’t exempt you from billing targets unless you have an accommodation that could reduce the target.

No, that's not true. Unless you want a reputation, you have to give associates coming back from parental leave time to ramp back up.

Nope, this is a fantasy. No one cares about “reputations”. Look at the last downturn in law. As soon as the economy picked up, people were clamoring to work at all the big firms that had just treated their associates like crap.

It’s pretty black and white when you’re talking about billing targets.

You clearly don't work in a law firm. I'm glad you think that you know how it works. Maybe it's time to get back to your 1L reading.

Guess we’ll see if you’re right tomorrow.

[Anonymous]

This is op- if they do suggest a performance improvement plan, what should I do? Are those negotiable? Is that just a paper trail to start the termination process? Does anyone have experience with a PIP?

[Anonymous]

Good luck, OP. No matter what happens tomorrow, you'll later look back on this as a blip. Probably sooner than you think. (BTDT, it is now a blip.)

Solid advice here to be prepared to discuss PIP-type ways you can improve AND what you want as severance. If you can get in the office early and sneak out your important personal things just in case, that could help avoid an embarrassing scene later. Or specifically ask to be allowed to pack up on weekend or after hours.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that. You will be okay no matter what! Sometimes this happens to people who don't deserve it, try not to take it personally or let it mess with your head. You're the same valuable person they hired, and they will see that again or your next employer will. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Good luck, OP. No matter what happens tomorrow, you'll later look back on this as a blip. Probably sooner than you think. (BTDT, it is now a blip.)

Solid advice here to be prepared to discuss PIP-type ways you can improve AND what you want as severance. If you can get in the office early and sneak out your important personal things just in case, that could help avoid an embarrassing scene later. Or specifically ask to be allowed to pack up on weekend or after hours.

Hopefully it doesn't come to that. You will be okay no matter what! Sometimes this happens to people who don't deserve it, try not to take it personally or let it mess with your head. You're the same valuable person they hired, and they will see that again or your next employer will. Good luck!

This is op. I appreciate this. Thanks. I’ll also have to tell my friends and other associates so I’ll have to think about that and if they know the details I won’t be as concerned about cleaning out my office. Ha.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is op- if they do suggest a performance improvement plan, what should I do? Are those negotiable? Is that just a paper trail to start the termination process? Does anyone have experience with a PIP?

There's usually not a lot of negotiating, but you can always try. Look in your employee handbook or firm intranet and see what it says about the process. It should be spelled out.

[Anonymous]

Good luck, OP.

Often this is more about available work than the quality of your work.

You will be ok. Update resume, reach out to recruiters. It's empowering however this goes.

[Anonymous]

It's always a good idea to forward possible writing samples, kudos emails, CYA material, etc to your personal email. If you don't do this routinely, now's a good time to start. Obviously you don't want to violate any firm rules or professional standards, redact if needed, etc.

[Anonymous]

Good luck OP. Have a cup of tea and get some sleep tonight You had the credentials and smarts to get this prestigious position. If the worst happens, you will no doubt find another great job.