How can posters ask questions about their academically advanced kids without being criticized?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:12:42 I think that one problem with posts like yours, about how a school will handle a child being advanced, is that who among us can begin to answer how his/her kindergarten teacher will respond to your child. So for me at least I'm not following the point of seeking input on that here. Plus I think parents who expect additional support when their child is advanced in pre-school or kindergarten should reconsider that expectation. This is group teaching, not private tutoring. You will do what parents of all advanced children do, support them with outside instruction, lessons and activities.

All children should receive the support they need to reach their full potential. Mixed abilities are the norm in classrooms and teachers usually do well accomodating the children. But when you get to the far points of the spectrum on either end (top and bottom 2%) there needs to be additional differentiation provided. Public schools are required to provide accomodations to a certain extent. Private schools aren't required but many of them do and some do a better job than others. So, I think asking that question on this forum could potentially give the OP some valuable info.

Would you ask a parent to reconsider an expectation of additional support if their child had a delay?

[Anonymous]

Gee, so if I start an advocacy group and label other positions "myths" then anyone who says something different will be wrong? Neat trick -- and it gets even better when you mischaracterize what was actually said and change context dramatically.

Arguments for why a public school district should offer services for gifted kids aren't really responsive to discussions about whether acceleration (teaching the same stuff faster) is the best approach to gifted education or whether being an early reader or "academically advanced" is a sign of giftedness or whether local private schools with highly selective admissions can provide a stimulating and supportive intellectual environment for gifted kids.

[Anonymous]

Excellent point 14:04. No one would expect a delayed kid to sit in the corner and play games while everyone else learns, so why should the advanced child?

[Anonymous]

Um, because the goal of public education is to provide everyone with a basic minimum so that s/he can function in society and, if possible, be self-supporting?

[Anonymous]

There is a huge world of difference between a child with a delay and a gifted child. Gifted children have the ability to learn on their own and delayed children do not. I am not saying they should be cast aside, but they can be in a highly pitched (we are talking private schools, here) classroom where some children aren't where they are and there WILL be things for them to learn and they will be able to do fine learning where they have extra skills. I won't go into how I know this so I won't be accused of bragging about this or that family member, but I have seen highly gifted children flourish in these classes. The problem is that when there are behavior problems, the parents will often say that it is because their children aren't challenged enough when very often there is something else going on -- maybe ADHD or Aspergers or just a behavior issue.

I am not buying what appears to be self-serving myths someone posted. Maybe if you have a child in a large, substandard public school they would be so underserved. But thats not what OP asked about.

I have a child with a disability. I loathe it when parents equate giftedness with disabilities. They are entirely different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gee, so if I start an advocacy group and label other positions "myths" then anyone who says something different will be wrong? Neat trick -- and it gets even better when you mischaracterize what was actually said and change context dramatically.

The NAGC is the largest gifted education advocacy organization in the country and it's been around for 50 years. They know this population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Gee, so if I start an advocacy group and label other positions "myths" then anyone who says something different will be wrong? Neat trick -- and it gets even better when you mischaracterize what was actually said and change context dramatically.

The NAGC is the largest gifted education advocacy organization in the country and it's been around for 50 years. They know this population.

Not to mention that they cite actual research studies, not something that anyone on this board seems to be able to do when they're asserting that kids will be "just fine" or don't need the strategies that will help them learn best.

Every child in a public school has a right to an individualized education plan (IEP) when the regular classroom is not meeting their educational needs. Gifted kids deserve and receive these just like developmentally disabled kids; it's how they come to be allowed to get grouped with other grades for math or reading or art, or to leave the classroom during the day for special analytic reasoning and problem-solving group activities with other children like them.

The real issue remains that most people who are very smart and have very smart kids really do not know what it's like for a child (or adult) to be in the top 3% of the population in this regard. They have never met or interacted with children in this range, and most adults do not reveal the ways in which their brains process things differently in everyday interactions. Yes, there are many PhDs in this area and many very smart people; the numbers of people in the top 10% or 5% of the population are higher in this area than in others. Until you have interacted closely with someone in the next range up, it can be hard to fathom just how differently they actually do process things and how much more stimulation they could benefit from.

[Anonymous]

@14:13 I posed the question not to ask about giftedness. I could care less about giftedness. I think the word is overused. I don't think early reading is a sign of anything per se. What I do know, is that I have a kid who likes to learn and has demonstrated reading comprehension and writing ability as observed by educators in the school. Social interaction is also a non issue. So if you have been in a private school environment and have a kid with a similar learning style, what has been your experience in K? 14:23 your answer was helpful and I wish you would elaborate further. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

The NRA has been around for over a century. They know from guns. If they had a Facts and Myths webpage about gun ownership, I wouldn't accept it as truth either -- much less the last word on the topic, regardless of the specific questions and contexts being discussed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is a huge world of difference between a child with a delay and a gifted child. Gifted children have the ability to learn on their own and delayed children do not. I am not saying they should be cast aside, but they can be in a highly pitched (we are talking private schools, here) classroom where some children aren't where they are and there WILL be things for them to learn and they will be able to do fine learning where they have extra skills. I won't go into how I know this so I won't be accused of bragging about this or that family member, but I have seen highly gifted children flourish in these classes. The problem is that when there are behavior problems, the parents will often say that it is because their children aren't challenged enough when very often there is something else going on -- maybe ADHD or Aspergers or just a behavior issue.

I am not buying what appears to be self-serving myths someone posted. Maybe if you have a child in a large, substandard public school they would be so underserved. But thats not what OP asked about.

I have a child with a disability. I loathe it when parents equate giftedness with disabilities. They are entirely different.

Yes, their needs are different. But you can't deny that both populations are different from the norm and require a differentiated approach to meet their unique needs.

Again, the "myths" listed are from the NAGC which is the largest gifted advocacy organization in the country. It's comprised of parents, teachers, educators and policy makers and it's been around for 50 years.

http://www.nagc.org/index.aspx?id=31

[Anonymous]

All comments below are in response to the normal bright kids who proliferate in this area, not the amazingly exceptional 160 plus kids (who often benefit from learning all that "basic" stuff like how to get along and communicate with other people, share and exchange ideas, discern right from wrong, etc.) that should be part of a good kindergarten program.
1. Early readers are not necessarily the biggest brains on the planet.
2. Adding and subtracting at age 4 doesn't mean much in terms of real problem solving.
Some kids do pick this stuff up early and easily. That's fine. Some kids are taught this-note all the posts looking for curriculum info so the kid can come to school already knowing the curriculum.
Clearly everyone's definition of academically advanced is going to be different.
Current research supports indicates much of the real learning that happens in classrooms happens in the course of students exchanging information, discussing (even on the little kid level) how to solve a problem, and sharing what they know.

A good classroom setting for a bright kid includes a teacher who provides an environment for that kind of learning to happen, a teacher who knows his/her subject well, but helps children learn how to discover information, and, provides some kind of relative peer group. That would include a decent cohort of other bright kids AND some kids who have different kinds of thinking abilities and problem solving skills. A good teacher helps a child learn to interact with their peer group rather than being dependent on the teacher as the source of all knowledge. More learning happens between children than teacher to child. A good teacher knows this and helps this to happen.

"Academically advanced" is a matter of perception. Are you saying your kid knows more facts and reads more pages than most kids their age? Being able to answer factual questions about a chapter book at age 5 is a little tiny piece of the pie, if you want to consider a child advanced. Find a place where there are enough other bright kids for your bright kid to have a cohort. That would be most of the schools in this area, including the so-called 2nd/ 3rd tier schools. Really. Expect that every child will not be bright in the same way, and hope your child develops the intellectual capacity and emotional maturity to take the challenge his/her peers can offer. A child who comes to school convinced that s/he knows more and is smarter than everyone else, comes to school with a closed mind. Closed minds do not learn and grow nearly as quickly as open minds.

So, you have a bright kid, what do you look for in a school? Caring, knowledgeable teachers, and interacting students. There are lots and lots of other bright kids--they'll be there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:@14:13 I posed the question not to ask about giftedness. I could care less about giftedness. I think the word is overused. I don't think early reading is a sign of anything per se. What I do know, is that I have a kid who likes to learn and has demonstrated reading comprehension and writing ability as observed by educators in the school. Social interaction is also a non issue. So if you have been in a private school environment and have a kid with a similar learning style, what has been your experience in K? 14:23 your answer was helpful and I wish you would elaborate further. Thanks.

Yeah, I noticed that. Your question got highjacked in a variety of different ways! But back to the main point. Hard to know whether learning styles are similar (since you haven't really described your DC's) but my DC who entered K with those kinds of skills was very happy at a Big 3. Honestly, they see kids like this all the time (not every kid, maybe not most kids, but there are always some). And over the years, this DC has, in fact, been much happier with the progressive education model than with an acceleration approach (e.g. CTY). Basically, a rich/broad/deep curriculum that puts kids in a position where they choose-their-own-adventure (with guidance and support) engages DC in a way that mastering lots of one-dimensional fact-based stuff quickly does not. This DC loves a big canvas and doesn't see speed or competition as very interesting or motivational.

re K specifically, look for small class sizes, rooms with lots of interesting books at different reading levels and regular trips to the library, and a program where kids write regularly. And be prepared for the fact that your DC will review phonics (early readers can lack decoding skills which will come back to haunt them later) and will not be pushed to read the hardest books s/he can manage (fluency/ease comes from practice and often from practice with different texts at the same level). I've yet to see a K math program that impresses me locally (though see http://www.heinemann.com/products/E00431.aspx for a great book on the topic -- one sample chapter is free online). That said, lots of the math in my DC's K was self-paced.

To sum up... Instead of starting from the premise that gifted kids have special needs, progressive schools tend to start from the premise that every kid deserves to be educated like a gifted kid -- i.e. in a way that takes his/her intellect and capacity to discover and create seriously. That's why you don't see much differentiation -- because it's not a one-size-fits-most model to begin with. It's more of a firing on all cylinders, different strokes for different folks, start where they are and help them get to where they want to go model.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The NRA has been around for over a century. They know from guns. If they had a Facts and Myths webpage about gun ownership, I wouldn't accept it as truth either -- much less the last word on the topic, regardless of the specific questions and contexts being discussed.

Oh please....this is stretching it a bit....don't you think?

[Anonymous]

No, not really.

[Anonymous]

14:13 again and you've gotten some terrific answers. Make sure your child will have at least some time to explore and grow on his or her own. Creativity and problem solving skills come from play, so it is an important element of education. And make sure that your child is reading age-appropriate material, even if his reading skills are advanced. Comprehension and, well, joy of reading won't come if he's reading Harry Potter in kindergarten (much as parents like to brag about kids reading Harry Potter in K). This kind of thing could turn him off of reading. the other thing is to keep in mind that even if your child's reading and math skills are ahead of his or her classmates, there are likely gaps that you aren't even aware of that can still be filled in.

Still not buying this highly gifted nonsense. DH and I both had IQs measured above 160 in elementary school -- he was an early self-taught reader and I read when my peers did -- and we both thrived in typical, though probably better than most, public school classrooms. I loved reading and learning and had the space to do so on my own as well as to participate in what my classmates were doing. DH's parents were told they could accelerate him and chose not to. We were both well-behaved kids, not bored out of our skulls, and are lifelong learners. We didn't need special considerations and we didn't need to be spoon-fed some sort of enhanced curriculum.

And again, as the mother of a child with a disability I am deeply offended by the comparison. If DH or I took funds away from someone like our DC when we were young it would have been a travesty. Only the parent of a typically developing child would dare to make such a comparison.