Does Test Optional Really Mean Test Optional

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t listen to the above poster. It varies by college but plenty of regular old white kids have gotten in TO to top schools, even in the early round so far this year.

Top schools? Like T-10? T-20? I don't think so.

Haha yes, regardless of what you think. Yale, Vanderbilt, and Northwestern so far this year from my kids’ school.

Shocked by northwestern and Yale. URM?

NP: Family friend's kid: white, boy, public, high GPA, good ECs that support non-STEM major, but not spectacular, TO Northwestern this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t listen to the above poster. It varies by college but plenty of regular old white kids have gotten in TO to top schools, even in the early round so far this year.

Top schools? Like T-10? T-20? I don't think so.

Haha yes, regardless of what you think. Yale, Vanderbilt, and Northwestern so far this year from my kids’ school.

Where do you find this information?

From their mouths. These are my daughter’s friends and classmates.

[Anonymous]

I know a non-hooked girl who got into Dartmouth ED this year. She did have an excellent application; all the parts of the application told a cohesive story.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t listen to the above poster. It varies by college but plenty of regular old white kids have gotten in TO to top schools, even in the early round so far this year.

Top schools? Like T-10? T-20? I don't think so.

my regular old white kid got into one of these top schools TO. She prepped a bit, and after several sittings only scored in mid 1300s so decided to bag it - ECs essays and recs were very good - nothing national, just regular old white kid stuff, but told a cohesive story that made sense for the college and her field of interest. Tell a good story is my advice for all, whether or not u submit. And although everyone says rich/private school kids have to submit, it’s expected - this is categorically false and a fallacy created by elites - no adcom has ever said this is a thing. If it’s TO, and they message that consistently, then it’s TO for all

This is such a valuable piece of advice that most people miss. They really think it’s just about scores and a list of activities. The gpa (and scores if they’re submitted) will get you through the first door. It’s the kids who can weave together a story across their essays about their values and how they come through in their extra curriculars that will make it through the next rounds.

Yes. Tell the story. That matters a lot.

But for test scores, there's a difference for top 40 kind of colleges and the other 4000 colleges. Pretty sure going TO isn't going to matter much at Frostburg State. It'll matter at Georgia Tech and every school ranked higher.

For a white or Asian kid from the burbs, test scores are expected. The students getting in TO at competitive colleges all have something - high GPAs, many APs, leadership positions, great stories. Or are URM, legacy, athletes or particularly wealthy. Would guess many didn't submit because they scored in the 1400s while every school these days seems to expect a 1580.

Test optional has not been a wonderful development for the vast majority of kids. It creates even more pressure and uncertainty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD applied test optional and so far has gotten into all the schools that had early action and she received top merit at all of them. The schools were not T-10, but more like T50-75. She had a 3.9/4.6W and a lot of very good EC's, so that helped. In her case, I don't think she would have gotten as much merit if she'd submitted her decent, but not stellar test scores. If you are looking at more competitive schools, it may be a different story.

what is "Decent but not stellar" -- 1460? 1360? 1260?

"Decent but not stellar" = college's 50% range. Check the CDS.

[Anonymous]

Most people agree to submit a 34 ACT or 1500+ SAT. Also AP scores if you have them. If you are at a private that doesn’t offer the AP courses but can still take the AP exam and do well-even better, esp at OOS flagships.

Lots of rumination by top colleges about their testing policies going forward-listen to Dartmouth and Yale podcasts. It is universally agreed that test scores help validate a strong GPA and if you aren’t in a preferred category (URM, FGLI, athlete or legacy) it can only help
To have that piece of the puzzle. For the few who make it into a top 25 school without them-those are the unicorns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t listen to the above poster. It varies by college but plenty of regular old white kids have gotten in TO to top schools, even in the early round so far this year.

Top schools? Like T-10? T-20? I don't think so.

my regular old white kid got into one of these top schools TO. She prepped a bit, and after several sittings only scored in mid 1300s so decided to bag it - ECs essays and recs were very good - nothing national, just regular old white kid stuff, but told a cohesive story that made sense for the college and her field of interest. Tell a good story is my advice for all, whether or not u submit. And although everyone says rich/private school kids have to submit, it’s expected - this is categorically false and a fallacy created by elites - no adcom has ever said this is a thing. If it’s TO, and they message that consistently, then it’s TO for all

This is such a valuable piece of advice that most people miss. They really think it’s just about scores and a list of activities. The gpa (and scores if they’re submitted) will get you through the first door. It’s the kids who can weave together a story across their essays about their values and how they come through in their extra curriculars that will make it through the next rounds.

Yes. Tell the story. That matters a lot.

But for test scores, there's a difference for top 40 kind of colleges and the other 4000 colleges. Pretty sure going TO isn't going to matter much at Frostburg State. It'll matter at Georgia Tech and every school ranked higher.

For a white or Asian kid from the burbs, test scores are expected. The students getting in TO at competitive colleges all have something - high GPAs, many APs, leadership positions, great stories. Or are URM, legacy, athletes or particularly wealthy. Would guess many didn't submit because they scored in the 1400s while every school these days seems to expect a 1580.

Test optional has not been a wonderful development for the vast majority of kids. It creates even more pressure and uncertainty.

You’ve just described holistic admissions—and why TO is real. You don’t have to have everything; you just have to have the right combination of things to make you a good fit for the school. Test scores might be one of those things…or they might not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD applied test optional and so far has gotten into all the schools that had early action and she received top merit at all of them. The schools were not T-10, but more like T50-75. She had a 3.9/4.6W and a lot of very good EC's, so that helped. In her case, I don't think she would have gotten as much merit if she'd submitted her decent, but not stellar test scores. If you are looking at more competitive schools, it may be a different story.

This is true at least from some of the data on College Confidential. Kids were getting Honors College offers and large merit awards TO but those with similar stats who submitted tests didn’t receive the same offers with SATs lower than 1500. It was surprising to me and seemed even the less competitive schools are using the 1500 benchmark now 😬

I’ve seen more cases of to kids not getting merit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t listen to the above poster. It varies by college but plenty of regular old white kids have gotten in TO to top schools, even in the early round so far this year.

Top schools? Like T-10? T-20? I don't think so.

Oh I do think so. I know of at least regular ole unhooked public hs kids who were admitted to HYP without scores. They’re amazing students with high rigor and high GPAs to match.

Is this the California poster again?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have recently noticed that some schools, while remaining test optional, have a sentence on their websites stating that students should take the tests and submit the results "if they are able." Thoughts on what this means? It's concerning because with the test optional policies only kids with the highest scores are submitting. Is it crazy to apply without taking the test?

Which schools say this? Because some are definitely still saying “when we say test optional, we really mean it — we will consider them if you send them but we have lots of other factors to consider about you if you don’t send them.”

Many ex AO's say the same thing: test optional is not really test optional if you are not in the disadvantaged group. If you have highly qualified parents, good HS and an expensive location, not sending test scores is a dead giveaway. They have to assume consciously or subconsciously that scores are poor or bad and wonder why that is so. Current AO's have to say "we really mean it" because they want to seem to be not putting pressure on kids. In a broad sense it is also kind of, sort of, truish. Because they look at applications holistically. If you are a fields medal winner, sure they really would ignore scores. See? they really mean it. So they go with that line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have recently noticed that some schools, while remaining test optional, have a sentence on their websites stating that students should take the tests and submit the results "if they are able." Thoughts on what this means? It's concerning because with the test optional policies only kids with the highest scores are submitting. Is it crazy to apply without taking the test?

Which schools say this? Because some are definitely still saying “when we say test optional, we really mean it — we will consider them if you send them but we have lots of other factors to consider about you if you don’t send them.”

Many ex AO's say the same thing: test optional is not really test optional if you are not in the disadvantaged group. If you have highly qualified parents, good HS and an expensive location, not sending test scores is a dead giveaway. They have to assume consciously or subconsciously that scores are poor or bad and wonder why that is so. Current AO's have to say "we really mean it" because they want to seem to be not putting pressure on kids. In a broad sense it is also kind of, sort of, truish. Because they look at applications holistically. If you are a fields medal winner, sure they really would ignore scores. See? they really mean it. So they go with that line.

Again we are talking about top 50ish schools here. For others this is not really applicable and you can just go with what colleges actually say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD applied test optional and so far has gotten into all the schools that had early action and she received top merit at all of them. The schools were not T-10, but more like T50-75. She had a 3.9/4.6W and a lot of very good EC's, so that helped. In her case, I don't think she would have gotten as much merit if she'd submitted her decent, but not stellar test scores. If you are looking at more competitive schools, it may be a different story.

what is "Decent but not stellar" -- 1460? 1360? 1260?

"Decent but not stellar" = college's 50% range. Check the CDS.

But its not the college's REAL 50%, its the 50% of the handful of kids who submit.

[Anonymous]

The top colleges are perfectly fine with test optional.
They will get "the best" students which meet the academic standards and institutional needs.

The graduation rates for T25 and such will remain high. Even when the SAT was mandatory, graduation rates were never 100%.

When a state like CA with a large population of prospective students each year is test blind ( think about that for a second); thousands of colleges have been TO going on 4 years; HYSP ( with Harvard through calendar year 2026!) still TO; and an Ivy League school like Columbia being permanently TO, my friends, the cake has been baked.

Colleges will not go back to mandatory standardized testing en masse, including the elite colleges.

There will hundreds of opinions whether that's good or not, but it is what it is. Each family will need to determine what's best for their kid's college admissions prospects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t listen to the above poster. It varies by college but plenty of regular old white kids have gotten in TO to top schools, even in the early round so far this year.

Top schools? Like T-10? T-20? I don't think so.

Oh I do think so. I know of at least regular ole unhooked public hs kids who were admitted to HYP without scores. They’re amazing students with high rigor and high GPAs to match.

Is this the California poster again?

No, I’m here in our nation’s capital. 😬

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Don’t listen to the above poster. It varies by college but plenty of regular old white kids have gotten in TO to top schools, even in the early round so far this year.

Top schools? Like T-10? T-20? I don't think so.

Oh I do think so. I know of at least regular ole unhooked public hs kids who were admitted to HYP without scores. They’re amazing students with high rigor and high GPAs to match.

Is this the California poster again?

No, I’m here in our nation’s capital. 😬

All three of these schools in particular have very low test optional admits rates, strange that you would know so many. Unless of course, you don’t.