AP physics without Algebra 2
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Anonymous
What about for science? |
Anonymous
At Blair, that's the norm. Kids who are currently taking A2 and are strong at math are recommended for AP Physics in 9th. |
Anonymous
Yes, @Blair 9th graders in Hon Algebra 2 are encouraged to jump straight into AP Physics. |
Anonymous
But the question is how they are doing in the class? Are they struggling? Is the teacher having to restructure lessons to make it understandable? Etc |
Anonymous
This. What are the AP scores like for the 9th graders? Are there older students also in the class or only 9th graders? |
Anonymous
I don't know where you are getting this but multiple admins, teachers and students spoke at the CAP parent meeting to actively discourage 9th graders in Alg. 2 from taking AP Physics because so many students were having a poor experience and struggling. |
Anonymous
No, that’s not the norm. Who would recommend those kids to take AP physics, the high school counselor, the tiger parents? Do those strong students also take physics C? If they don’t, what’s the point of taking the less math intensive and less rigorous physics class? If they do, why take three years of physics with so much overlap? No matter how you look at it, AP physics 1&2 make very little sense for a strong math student, it’s generally geared towards non STEM majors. It makes even less sense to take it concurent with algebra 2, while not having the required foundation for the class. |
Anonymous
Who would recommend AP Physics 1 for ninth graders taking Algebra 2, you ask? Blair administration, for one, until very recently. There have been discussions in DCUM on this very madness: http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/1034358.page#21918207 http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/75/1035921.page#22014688 http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/345/850028.page#16446296 http://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/375/850028.page#16450565 https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/904189.page And Wheaton still does it; see "Engineering Application Program Course Sequence" table at https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/schools/wheatonhs/academies/Applicationprograms/ (Don't be misled by the math course name (Magnet precalculus) that ninth graders are placed in. It is a combined Algebra 2/precalculus course over two years - ninth and tenth grades, intended for students that did Geometry in eighth grade. So they are really doing Algebra 2 at the same time as AP Physics 1. They might as well call Magnet Precalc A/B as Magnet Algebra 2 A/B.) -- DP |
Anonymous
+100 This is my guess too. A few ninth graders might do well but many will struggle and get turned off physics. You also would need an excellent teacher, which may be the case at Blair, I don’t know, as 9th graders are not yet adept at figuring things out on their own. AP Physics 1 is not an easy class. It is a little bit easier than AP Physics C Mechanics and a lot easier than AP Physics C E&M. It is not an easy AP by any means and best to take it in 10th or 11th grade. |
Anonymous
I don’t see a good argument for for that sequence, note that they recommend physics 1, but not physics 2, and then physics c optional as a senior. Of course it depends on the student and intended major, but I’d think that a well rounded high school science education would include APs in physics, chemistry and biology. The forth year would be either another (post) AP or an introductory (honors) high school course. Can you give a good argument on why it’s worth doing physics 1, that’s not essentially “someone recommended it”? As I said earlier it’s not as riguros as physics c, it takes too much time, and there’s too much overlap between the two. On top of it, if taken concurrently with algebra 2 means there’s a very weak foundation in trigonometry for circular motion, oscillations and waves, as well as matrices for vector analysis (momentum, forces). In addition you’d be taking a no calculus based class so the treatment of energy and dynamics will be taught at a very simplistic level. |
Anonymous
It's intro (honors / "elective" AP) conceptual class, before advanced technical class ("major-eligible" AP). Same sequence as in chemistry, biology, CS, Spanish... AP Physics C is usually only Mech, not also E&M. So it matches Physics 1. |
Anonymous
Considering I referred to this practice as madness, I am not sure why you would expect me to give you a good argument in favor of it?! 
Here is the sequence of what happened: Poster A: At Blair, freshmen doing Algebra 2 are recommended for AP Physics 1, and that is the norm. Poster B: No, that is not the norm, whoever would do such a thing? Me: Until RECENTLY the Blair admin was doing this. See these links (going back a few years) discussing this MADNESS. And, look here, another school in MCPS is also doing this. My point was that the poster A did not make it up, Blair was indeed doing this, and for the cohort that is currently in tenth grade, this recommendation was in place. It looks like they have changed it for the upcoming ninth grade cohort. I think this change is for the better, and I agree with your comments about the Wheaton sequence. |
Anonymous
I suppose you could take AP physics early if the goal is to rack up as many APs as possible, but at the same time there’s an opportunity cost associated with it plus all the downsides mentioned in this thread and the threads linked above. Physics C is one semester mechanics and the other electromagnetism usually both are taken. There’s a deep misunderstanding on what a college level physics class is supposed to teach. The idea is that students have the intellectual maturity to understand a mathematical description if the physical phenomena from first principles, ie Newtons laws. It’s a given that it requires advanced math like calculus, vectors (linear algebra), and trigonometry. Absent that foundation Physics 1 is a collection of factoids with a sprinkling of plug and chug formulas that have a limited educational value. Many would argue that “algebra based physics” is not even a college level class, because of the above reasons. Physics 1&2 won’t satisfy major requisite any stem major, so it’s more like chasing the rigorous coursework label. If the student has a real interest in physics, I think they’d be much better served through dual enrollment to follow up the math sequence up to differential equations and the typical three semesters of real college physics. |
Anonymous
Not the case at B-CC, where AP Physics C covers both Mech and E&M. See the syllabus: https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/a-j/bcchs/uploadedfiles/departments/ib/ap20physics20c20-20course20description.pdf |
Anonymous
Have you looked at the actual AP questions for AP Physics 1? They are very far from plug and chug. There is a reason it has such a low pass rate. That being said, college physics is primarily with calculus although non stem majors may do it without calculus. You can actually apply to med school with physics with algebra. Physics with calculus is not essential for med school applications. |