prelim/finals scratch

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh sure for MCSL and NVSL there are tons of scratches for all stars. At least in MCSL there is also a 2 event limit for all stars so the top top kids auto/choose to scratch certain events so they swim what they want. Was more curious about year round swimming than summer.

That doesn’t work in NVSL- because you only make all stars in two strokes if you’re on of the fastest 18 swimmers from divisionals AND each swimmer can only swim 2 events at divisionals.

The reason the top swimmers scratched at that meet was bc there was a big USA Swimming meet right after divisionals. Those swimmers always knew they were not swimming at all stars.

Oh interesting. In MCSL it’s the top 18 from any of the official meets (5 A and divisionals) - not just divisionals. So there are some kids who qualify in 3 or 4 strokes.

So All Stars is not really the top times - it is a representative sample. Only the fastest times from divisionals go. So if you look you will have much faster kids in a stroke not swimming ALL STARS in a stroke because they opted for something else for the two. Or, if you have a bad swim, bad pool, etc. you might not perform on that one day and not make it -- even if consistently you have an all star time.

Just like the NFL, the regular season is for seeding only. You have to perform in the playoffs and championship game in particular if you want to play in the Super Bowl.

I am guessing you are being funny.

Like others have said - summer is a bit of a fun past time. It is designed to not be challenging but recreational in nature. Since the times serve no purpose in summer, not really the NFL. More like pick up flag football league.

I am guessing you are a San Diego Chargers fan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

Comparing prelims/finals club meet scratches with summer swim scratches is an apples to oranges comparison. It is generally rare for someone outside the 2 alternates announced at prelims/finals club meets to scratch into finals because there is a penalty for doing so. The exception as someone else noted is the finals on the last night of a multi day meet. There is no penalty in summer swim for scratching, it’s a fun summer rec meet.

I think your statement here got muddled. If at a final with 8 lanes and 2 alternates, my understanding is that the ONLY people that are subject to the "no show and no scratch" penalty are the initial 8 qualifiers. I'm using the words "scratch into finals" to mean someone beyond the initial 10 who was "surprised" to make finals due to people before them scratching out. Like if you were number 13 and then left, but maybe your phone died or something so word couldn't be gotten to you that there were 5 scratches so you were swimming, you would not be subjected to the penalty?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

Comparing prelims/finals club meet scratches with summer swim scratches is an apples to oranges comparison. It is generally rare for someone outside the 2 alternates announced at prelims/finals club meets to scratch into finals because there is a penalty for doing so. The exception as someone else noted is the finals on the last night of a multi day meet. There is no penalty in summer swim for scratching, it’s a fun summer rec meet.

I think your statement here got muddled. If at a final with 8 lanes and 2 alternates, my understanding is that the ONLY people that are subject to the "no show and no scratch" penalty are the initial 8 qualifiers. I'm using the words "scratch into finals" to mean someone beyond the initial 10 who was "surprised" to make finals due to people before them scratching out. Like if you were number 13 and then left, but maybe your phone died or something so word couldn't be gotten to you that there were 5 scratches so you were swimming, you would not be subjected to the penalty?

It really depends on the meet. At some meets, everyone has to declare whether they're scratching and if they don't do it, get scratched in, and don't show-- they're out for the rest of the meet even if they were way out of finals position at prelims. I think Sectionals was this way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

Comparing prelims/finals club meet scratches with summer swim scratches is an apples to oranges comparison. It is generally rare for someone outside the 2 alternates announced at prelims/finals club meets to scratch into finals because there is a penalty for doing so. The exception as someone else noted is the finals on the last night of a multi day meet. There is no penalty in summer swim for scratching, it’s a fun summer rec meet.

I think your statement here got muddled. If at a final with 8 lanes and 2 alternates, my understanding is that the ONLY people that are subject to the "no show and no scratch" penalty are the initial 8 qualifiers. I'm using the words "scratch into finals" to mean someone beyond the initial 10 who was "surprised" to make finals due to people before them scratching out. Like if you were number 13 and then left, but maybe your phone died or something so word couldn't be gotten to you that there were 5 scratches so you were swimming, you would not be subjected to the penalty?

It really depends on the meet. At some meets, everyone has to declare whether they're scratching and if they don't do it, get scratched in, and don't show-- they're out for the rest of the meet even if they were way out of finals position at prelims. I think Sectionals was this way.

It can also depend on the timing. In most cases, there is a time window after the results are final in which swimmers are allowed to scratch. That is typically 30 minutes IME. All swimmers should know where they stand are the end of that 30 minutes. If swimmer 12 has become swimmer 8 at that time, they are assigned a lane and are expected to show at finals and depending on the rules of that meet, can be penalized. Let’s say swimmer 8 doesn’t show for finals and swimmer 9 (first alternate) is also not present, swimmer 9 is not penalized because they were never seeded in a lane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

Comparing prelims/finals club meet scratches with summer swim scratches is an apples to oranges comparison. It is generally rare for someone outside the 2 alternates announced at prelims/finals club meets to scratch into finals because there is a penalty for doing so. The exception as someone else noted is the finals on the last night of a multi day meet. There is no penalty in summer swim for scratching, it’s a fun summer rec meet.

I think your statement here got muddled. If at a final with 8 lanes and 2 alternates, my understanding is that the ONLY people that are subject to the "no show and no scratch" penalty are the initial 8 qualifiers. I'm using the words "scratch into finals" to mean someone beyond the initial 10 who was "surprised" to make finals due to people before them scratching out. Like if you were number 13 and then left, but maybe your phone died or something so word couldn't be gotten to you that there were 5 scratches so you were swimming, you would not be subjected to the penalty?

It really depends on the meet. At some meets, everyone has to declare whether they're scratching and if they don't do it, get scratched in, and don't show-- they're out for the rest of the meet even if they were way out of finals position at prelims. I think Sectionals was this way.

^ this- coaches will tell your swimmer to scratch if they have no intention of coming back for finals and they are 20

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

But in club meets you swim prelims and finals could be an hour later. That is very different than a qualifying for All Stars and swimming an event a week later.

Finals being an hour later isn’t happening. Prelims end, sometimes a distance session or a different age group session, then warm ups for finals, then the finals begin. The closest we’ve had was about 2 hours til warm ups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

But in club meets you swim prelims and finals could be an hour later. That is very different than a qualifying for All Stars and swimming an event a week later.

Finals being an hour later isn’t happening. Prelims end, sometimes a distance session or a different age group session, then warm ups for finals, then the finals begin. The closest we’ve had was about 2 hours til warm ups.

My 11-12 year old swimmer made finals at NCI and those kids had to be back for finals warm up about an hour after their prelims session ended.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

But in club meets you swim prelims and finals could be an hour later. That is very different than a qualifying for All Stars and swimming an event a week later.

Finals being an hour later isn’t happening. Prelims end, sometimes a distance session or a different age group session, then warm ups for finals, then the finals begin. The closest we’ve had was about 2 hours til warm ups.

Last year my kids session ended and we had an hour before finals warm up. Depending on age group. It happens.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

But in club meets you swim prelims and finals could be an hour later. That is very different than a qualifying for All Stars and swimming an event a week later.

Finals being an hour later isn’t happening. Prelims end, sometimes a distance session or a different age group session, then warm ups for finals, then the finals begin. The closest we’ve had was about 2 hours til warm ups.

My 11-12 year old swimmer made finals at NCI and those kids had to be back for finals warm up about an hour after their prelims session ended.

Same. My 10 yr old didn’t even have an hour break before he had to be back a swim again.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

But in club meets you swim prelims and finals could be an hour later. That is very different than a qualifying for All Stars and swimming an event a week later.

Finals being an hour later isn’t happening. Prelims end, sometimes a distance session or a different age group session, then warm ups for finals, then the finals begin. The closest we’ve had was about 2 hours til warm ups.

My 11-12 year old swimmer made finals at NCI and those kids had to be back for finals warm up about an hour after their prelims session ended.

Same. My 10 yr old didn’t even have an hour break before he had to be back a swim again.

The 10 and unders didn’t have prelims/finals at NCI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

But in club meets you swim prelims and finals could be an hour later. That is very different than a qualifying for All Stars and swimming an event a week later.

Finals being an hour later isn’t happening. Prelims end, sometimes a distance session or a different age group session, then warm ups for finals, then the finals begin. The closest we’ve had was about 2 hours til warm ups.

My 11-12 year old swimmer made finals at NCI and those kids had to be back for finals warm up about an hour after their prelims session ended.

Same. My 10 yr old didn’t even have an hour break before he had to be back a swim again.

The 10 and unders didn’t have prelims/finals at NCI.

I thought there were several 12&under events?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

But in club meets you swim prelims and finals could be an hour later. That is very different than a qualifying for All Stars and swimming an event a week later.

Finals being an hour later isn’t happening. Prelims end, sometimes a distance session or a different age group session, then warm ups for finals, then the finals begin. The closest we’ve had was about 2 hours til warm ups.

My 11-12 year old swimmer made finals at NCI and those kids had to be back for finals warm up about an hour after their prelims session ended.

Same. My 10 yr old didn’t even have an hour break before he had to be back a swim again.

The 10 and unders didn’t have prelims/finals at NCI.

I thought there were several 12&under events?

At NCI, prelims were finals for the 12 & U 200 back, breast, and fly. The earlier poster was probably referring another recent meet, such as Turkey Claus or Winter Classic, that had finals for 10 & U.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

But in club meets you swim prelims and finals could be an hour later. That is very different than a qualifying for All Stars and swimming an event a week later.

Finals being an hour later isn’t happening. Prelims end, sometimes a distance session or a different age group session, then warm ups for finals, then the finals begin. The closest we’ve had was about 2 hours til warm ups.

My 11-12 year old swimmer made finals at NCI and those kids had to be back for finals warm up about an hour after their prelims session ended.

Same. My 10 yr old didn’t even have an hour break before he had to be back a swim again.

The 10 and unders didn’t have prelims/finals at NCI.

Turkey Clause did.