prelim/finals scratch

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

But in club meets you swim prelims and finals could be an hour later. That is very different than a qualifying for All Stars and swimming an event a week later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Besides Champs, are there any other prelim/final format meets coming up?

OCCS Presidents Day Classic typically has prelims/finals for 11+ age groups, Saturday only. A-C finals for 11-12 and A-D finals for 13+ so lots of kids who don't make finals at other meets have a chance in this format. Then, on Sunday, they usually do a pentathlon for the younger kids. Something fun for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Besides Champs, are there any other prelim/final format meets coming up?

The Annual Black History Swim Meet in February is also a prelims/finals meet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Besides Champs, are there any other prelim/final format meets coming up?

OCCS Presidents Day Classic typically has prelims/finals for 11+ age groups, Saturday only. A-C finals for 11-12 and A-D finals for 13+ so lots of kids who don't make finals at other meets have a chance in this format. Then, on Sunday, they usually do a pentathlon for the younger kids. Something fun for everyone.

That is a great format for those trying to make cuts. Gives two chances at an event for a lot of kids.

[Anonymous]

I swear the Foxes Forty niner was prelim/final format in 2021, but then in 2022 it was not. I am hoping they go back to prelim/final format.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I swear the Foxes Forty niner was prelim/final format in 2021, but then in 2022 it was not. I am hoping they go back to prelim/final format.

Disregard - I was getting Pirate Pacer and Forty Niner mixed up. Forty Niner was prelim/final both years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh sure for MCSL and NVSL there are tons of scratches for all stars. At least in MCSL there is also a 2 event limit for all stars so the top top kids auto/choose to scratch certain events so they swim what they want. Was more curious about year round swimming than summer.

That doesn’t work in NVSL- because you only make all stars in two strokes if you’re on of the fastest 18 swimmers from divisionals AND each swimmer can only swim 2 events at divisionals.

The reason the top swimmers scratched at that meet was bc there was a big USA Swimming meet right after divisionals. Those swimmers always knew they were not swimming at all stars.

Oh interesting. In MCSL it’s the top 18 from any of the official meets (5 A and divisionals) - not just divisionals. So there are some kids who qualify in 3 or 4 strokes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh sure for MCSL and NVSL there are tons of scratches for all stars. At least in MCSL there is also a 2 event limit for all stars so the top top kids auto/choose to scratch certain events so they swim what they want. Was more curious about year round swimming than summer.

That doesn’t work in NVSL- because you only make all stars in two strokes if you’re on of the fastest 18 swimmers from divisionals AND each swimmer can only swim 2 events at divisionals.

The reason the top swimmers scratched at that meet was bc there was a big USA Swimming meet right after divisionals. Those swimmers always knew they were not swimming at all stars.

Oh interesting. In MCSL it’s the top 18 from any of the official meets (5 A and divisionals) - not just divisionals. So there are some kids who qualify in 3 or 4 strokes.

So All Stars is not really the top times - it is a representative sample. Only the fastest times from divisionals go. So if you look you will have much faster kids in a stroke not swimming ALL STARS in a stroke because they opted for something else for the two. Or, if you have a bad swim, bad pool, etc. you might not perform on that one day and not make it -- even if consistently you have an all star time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

Comparing prelims/finals club meet scratches with summer swim scratches is an apples to oranges comparison. It is generally rare for someone outside the 2 alternates announced at prelims/finals club meets to scratch into finals because there is a penalty for doing so. The exception as someone else noted is the finals on the last night of a multi day meet. There is no penalty in summer swim for scratching, it’s a fun summer rec meet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh sure for MCSL and NVSL there are tons of scratches for all stars. At least in MCSL there is also a 2 event limit for all stars so the top top kids auto/choose to scratch certain events so they swim what they want. Was more curious about year round swimming than summer.

That doesn’t work in NVSL- because you only make all stars in two strokes if you’re on of the fastest 18 swimmers from divisionals AND each swimmer can only swim 2 events at divisionals.

The reason the top swimmers scratched at that meet was bc there was a big USA Swimming meet right after divisionals. Those swimmers always knew they were not swimming at all stars.

Oh interesting. In MCSL it’s the top 18 from any of the official meets (5 A and divisionals) - not just divisionals. So there are some kids who qualify in 3 or 4 strokes.

So All Stars is not really the top times - it is a representative sample. Only the fastest times from divisionals go. So if you look you will have much faster kids in a stroke not swimming ALL STARS in a stroke because they opted for something else for the two. Or, if you have a bad swim, bad pool, etc. you might not perform on that one day and not make it -- even if consistently you have an all star time.

Just like the NFL, the regular season is for seeding only. You have to perform in the playoffs and championship game in particular if you want to play in the Super Bowl.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

Comparing prelims/finals club meet scratches with summer swim scratches is an apples to oranges comparison. It is generally rare for someone outside the 2 alternates announced at prelims/finals club meets to scratch into finals because there is a penalty for doing so. The exception as someone else noted is the finals on the last night of a multi day meet. There is no penalty in summer swim for scratching, it’s a fun summer rec meet. [b]

Agree. Summer is fun and it does not matter. The times means little and the conditions are subjective compared to the standardization of USA Swimming meets.

There is also something really great about prelim/final format meets. Where a kid swims in the morning and then returns at night to race against the best. It is exciting, grueling, and tiring. It pushes kids to the limits. Watching a kid race a 200 and then return 90 minutes later and do it again. It is cool. Summer is not the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh sure for MCSL and NVSL there are tons of scratches for all stars. At least in MCSL there is also a 2 event limit for all stars so the top top kids auto/choose to scratch certain events so they swim what they want. Was more curious about year round swimming than summer.

That doesn’t work in NVSL- because you only make all stars in two strokes if you’re on of the fastest 18 swimmers from divisionals AND each swimmer can only swim 2 events at divisionals.

The reason the top swimmers scratched at that meet was bc there was a big USA Swimming meet right after divisionals. Those swimmers always knew they were not swimming at all stars.

Oh interesting. In MCSL it’s the top 18 from any of the official meets (5 A and divisionals) - not just divisionals. So there are some kids who qualify in 3 or 4 strokes.

So All Stars is not really the top times - it is a representative sample. Only the fastest times from divisionals go. So if you look you will have much faster kids in a stroke not swimming ALL STARS in a stroke because they opted for something else for the two. Or, if you have a bad swim, bad pool, etc. you might not perform on that one day and not make it -- even if consistently you have an all star time.

Just like the NFL, the regular season is for seeding only. You have to perform in the playoffs and championship game in particular if you want to play in the Super Bowl.

Omg are people really out here comparing summer swim with the NFL?! I knew NVSL parents were a little cray, but come on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, it can happen. Here was NVSL’s divisionals from a few years ago in the 15-18, 50 free:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=4&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

You can see the #29th swimmer from Divisionals scratched into all stars here:

https://www.mynvsl.com/leaders?post=1&mt=5&age=5&sex=1&st=1&stroke=50-free&m=1&year=2019&count=50&division=&team=

That means 11 people scratched for the 29th swimmer to get a chance to swim at all stars.

I don't think we are talking summer swim... That is very different than swimming the same event the same day.

Also NVSL all stars is held at the same time as Futures. So the best swimmers in the area would be going to futures, not All Stars. That is why there are so many scratches.

Of course but the question still applies- is it possible for someone down on a list to make it to finals. Or: is it possible to have a lot of final qualifiers scratch. The answer is: yes, better swimmers scratch or don’t swim at events all the time. It is very possible.

Comparing prelims/finals club meet scratches with summer swim scratches is an apples to oranges comparison. It is generally rare for someone outside the 2 alternates announced at prelims/finals club meets to scratch into finals because there is a penalty for doing so. The exception as someone else noted is the finals on the last night of a multi day meet. There is no penalty in summer swim for scratching, it’s a fun summer rec meet.

I agree with your statement that summer swim is apples to oranges. But I disagree that there is a penalty for scratching. Sometimes the club will prohibit scratches, but I have never seen a meet announcement that prohibited scratching from finals. The penalty kicks in when the swimmer doesn't scratch, and no shows. I do think scratches past the alternates are unusual, but not impossible. In terms of the question of whether a swimmer is penalized who was an alternate but gets scratched into finals, and doesn't know it? IT depends on both the meet announcement and the 'doesn't know it' part. If they were not notified at all, they won't be penalized. If they were told to check email/phone- and didn't bother to check, they might be penalized. The standard penalty is that they are disqualified from their next scheduled event.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Oh sure for MCSL and NVSL there are tons of scratches for all stars. At least in MCSL there is also a 2 event limit for all stars so the top top kids auto/choose to scratch certain events so they swim what they want. Was more curious about year round swimming than summer.

That doesn’t work in NVSL- because you only make all stars in two strokes if you’re on of the fastest 18 swimmers from divisionals AND each swimmer can only swim 2 events at divisionals.

The reason the top swimmers scratched at that meet was bc there was a big USA Swimming meet right after divisionals. Those swimmers always knew they were not swimming at all stars.

Oh interesting. In MCSL it’s the top 18 from any of the official meets (5 A and divisionals) - not just divisionals. So there are some kids who qualify in 3 or 4 strokes.

So All Stars is not really the top times - it is a representative sample. Only the fastest times from divisionals go. So if you look you will have much faster kids in a stroke not swimming ALL STARS in a stroke because they opted for something else for the two. Or, if you have a bad swim, bad pool, etc. you might not perform on that one day and not make it -- even if consistently you have an all star time.

Just like the NFL, the regular season is for seeding only. You have to perform in the playoffs and championship game in particular if you want to play in the Super Bowl.

I am guessing you are being funny.

Like others have said - summer is a bit of a fun past time. It is designed to not be challenging but recreational in nature. Since the times serve no purpose in summer, not really the NFL. More like pick up flag football league.