I predict one top school will be all-scholarship in next 5 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In other words, nobody pays anything. It will probably be Princeton. Also, they'll get rid of legacy at same time.

I get that they take in a lot of money in tuition, but they already have half the kids going for nothing. And they don't need the money. And they'll be able to get rid of a pretty large and expensive administrative department.

I think it will start as tuition only and within another few years, 5 or so other colleges will follow.

No we will never see this at an Ivy. If there was a lower tiered school with money for some reason then maybe (like a third tier state school). But among the issues at Princeton would be that it is mostly well off students and going free would be met with outrage. Also -- Princeton will be one of the last schools to drop legacy even if everyone else does. They are all about legacy. At one point it was 40% of the class -- it is lower now but no --- not happen.

They also do not have the money to do this -- no school does. that endowment is to be used of 100-300 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In other words, nobody pays anything. It will probably be Princeton. Also, they'll get rid of legacy at same time.

I get that they take in a lot of money in tuition, but they already have half the kids going for nothing. And they don't need the money. And they'll be able to get rid of a pretty large and expensive administrative department.

I think it will start as tuition only and within another few years, 5 or so other colleges will follow.

No we will never see this at an Ivy. If there was a lower tiered school with money for some reason then maybe (like a third tier state school). But among the issues at Princeton would be that it is mostly well off students and going free would be met with outrage. Also -- Princeton will be one of the last schools to drop legacy even if everyone else does. They are all about legacy. At one point it was 40% of the class -- it is lower now but no --- not happen.

They also do not have the money to do this -- no school does. that endowment is to be used of 100-300 years.

you guys dont understand money

[Anonymous]

I always assumed that Hopkins would get there for undergrads, given Bloomberg's continued donations. All the graduate and continuing education programs could still charge fees/tuition.

[Anonymous]

Will they give us donut hole families with huge amounts of debt our $$ back ?!?!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In other words, nobody pays anything. It will probably be Princeton. Also, they'll get rid of legacy at same time.

I get that they take in a lot of money in tuition, but they already have half the kids going for nothing. And they don't need the money. And they'll be able to get rid of a pretty large and expensive administrative department.

I think it will start as tuition only and within another few years, 5 or so other colleges will follow.

No we will never see this at an Ivy. If there was a lower tiered school with money for some reason then maybe (like a third tier state school). But among the issues at Princeton would be that it is mostly well off students and going free would be met with outrage. Also -- Princeton will be one of the last schools to drop legacy even if everyone else does. They are all about legacy. At one point it was 40% of the class -- it is lower now but no --- not happen.

They also do not have the money to do this -- no school does. that endowment is to be used of 100-300 years.

There are lower tier schools that do this--tuition free for all. Berea comes to mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The idea that Princeton could be tuition free is not new. When I was a student in the 2000s we were talking about it. I even had a Econ question on this subject and ultimately, [/b]why would they drop tuition when 40% of students are willing to pay full tuition?[b]But yes, Princeton can afford to be free and has been able to for quite some time.

Legacy admission will probably be gone in the next 20 years imo.

We aren’t so wiling, it’s a lot of sacrifice and loans - so this was a shitty take on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In other words, nobody pays anything. It will probably be Princeton. Also, they'll get rid of legacy at same time.

I get that they take in a lot of money in tuition, but they already have half the kids going for nothing. And they don't need the money. And they'll be able to get rid of a pretty large and expensive administrative department.

I think it will start as tuition only and within another few years, 5 or so other colleges will follow.

What about the non-need based kids? Princeton doesn't generate enough money to give out merit aid for all those kids, and they are not about to deplete those endowments.

Their endowment is $5 million per student

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cooper Union is a really interesting example. Taking that tuition money was penny wise and pound foolish.

+1 Was very stupid of them. I am from NYC area and it was like the biggest thrill when someone you knew got into Cooper Union- Harvard times a million.

But yes, I agree, since NYU medical school did this I do not think it's out of the realm of possibility that a rich college does for undergrad as well.

The irony of NYU medical school going tuition free is just too rich, given how much NYU saddles undergrads with oodles of debt. NYU-educated doctors are (1) usually already coming from wealthy families (as are most med students, unfortunately) and (2) will make awesome money throughout their career.

NYU should have offered this to their School of Social Work, which is a very good program but saddles its masters students with tons of debt. And they leave the program making no more than $55K.

[Anonymous]

Why in the world would they do this? There are plenty of people with very smart kids who have no problem paying $400k for undergrad out of pocket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In other words, nobody pays anything. It will probably be Princeton. Also, they'll get rid of legacy at same time.

I get that they take in a lot of money in tuition, but they already have half the kids going for nothing. And they don't need the money. And they'll be able to get rid of a pretty large and expensive administrative department.

I think it will start as tuition only and within another few years, 5 or so other colleges will follow.

What about the non-need based kids? Princeton doesn't generate enough money to give out merit aid for all those kids, and they are not about to deplete those endowments.

We need to have a real conversation about why we allow these universities to hoard tens of billions in endowments if it's not for education. There are people out there who think Princeton doesn't generate enough money to give merit aid to all those kids!!

What do you mean "why we allow"? What makes you think you have the authority to "allow" a private organization to do anything?

Im not PP but I interpreted this as educational organizations getting IRS/state tax breaks on capital gains as non-profits. So in that sense, the federal government is the one who "allows" them the break.

Great, so we get to tell churches, clubs and charities how to operate also?

Ridiculous, and presumptuous.

[Anonymous]

I think there are people here who think all families who are paying full price are doing it by ripping out a check without another thought. "no problem paying" etc.

I live in a 2 bedroom, 1 bath apartment in Brooklyn. The Princeton NPC says we can afford the full boat. LOL, what? Part of it is how we earn money (solo member LLCs with okay income - under 200k - that limits what we can put into retirement), part of it is how we spend money (toggling off HULU every 6 months, staying in the apartment we bought 25 years ago), part of it is how we save money (dollar cost averaging every single month no matter what).

We can't spend 400k for college. We have no inheritance on the way. We have to think about long term care for one of us

A lot of people don't even apply. Why would Princeton or another school make this move? Because at some point they'll wake up and realize 40 billion is enough money for a medium sized university and they will start to use some of the money it throws off. They could cover tuition for all and their endowment would still grow by a few billion a year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In other words, nobody pays anything. It will probably be Princeton. Also, they'll get rid of legacy at same time.

I get that they take in a lot of money in tuition, but they already have half the kids going for nothing. And they don't need the money. And they'll be able to get rid of a pretty large and expensive administrative department.

I think it will start as tuition only and within another few years, 5 or so other colleges will follow.

What about the non-need based kids? Princeton doesn't generate enough money to give out merit aid for all those kids, and they are not about to deplete those endowments.

We need to have a real conversation about why we allow these universities to hoard tens of billions in endowments if it's not for education. There are people out there who think Princeton doesn't generate enough money to give merit aid to all those kids!!

What do you mean "why we allow"? What makes you think you have the authority to "allow" a private organization to do anything?

Im not PP but I interpreted this as educational organizations getting IRS/state tax breaks on capital gains as non-profits. So in that sense, the federal government is the one who "allows" them the break.

Great, so we get to tell churches, clubs and charities how to operate also?

Ridiculous, and presumptuous.

think you've misread this entire thread, ms presumptuous. nobody is saying the rules are going to change. (although I wish). they're saying more schools will move to what NYU med school did. we'll see.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think there are people here who think all families who are paying full price are doing it by ripping out a check without another thought. "no problem paying" etc.

I live in a 2 bedroom, 1 bath apartment in Brooklyn. The Princeton NPC says we can afford the full boat. LOL, what? Part of it is how we earn money (solo member LLCs with okay income - under 200k - that limits what we can put into retirement), part of it is how we spend money (toggling off HULU every 6 months, staying in the apartment we bought 25 years ago), part of it is how we save money (dollar cost averaging every single month no matter what).

We can't spend 400k for college. We have no inheritance on the way. We have to think about long term care for one of us

A lot of people don't even apply. Why would Princeton or another school make this move? Because at some point they'll wake up and realize 40 billion is enough money for a medium sized university and they will start to use some of the money it throws off. They could cover tuition for all and their endowment would still grow by a few billion a year.

While I understand your argument, something doesn't add up, literally. We make $250 in the DMV, and the Princeton NPC has us getting pretty significant aid, bringing price down to about $30K. Is is that you have significant assets that are counted (i.e., not retirement, not home equity)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In other words, nobody pays anything. It will probably be Princeton. Also, they'll get rid of legacy at same time.

I get that they take in a lot of money in tuition, but they already have half the kids going for nothing. And they don't need the money. And they'll be able to get rid of a pretty large and expensive administrative department.

I think it will start as tuition only and within another few years, 5 or so other colleges will follow.

What about the non-need based kids? Princeton doesn't generate enough money to give out merit aid for all those kids, and they are not about to deplete those endowments.

We need to have a real conversation about why we allow these universities to hoard tens of billions in endowments if it's not for education. There are people out there who think Princeton doesn't generate enough money to give merit aid to all those kids!!

What do you mean "why we allow"? What makes you think you have the authority to "allow" a private organization to do anything?

Im not PP but I interpreted this as educational organizations getting IRS/state tax breaks on capital gains as non-profits. So in that sense, the federal government is the one who "allows" them the break.

Great, so we get to tell churches, clubs and charities how to operate also?

Ridiculous, and presumptuous.

think you've misread this entire thread, ms presumptuous. nobody is saying the rules are going to change. (although I wish). they're saying more schools will move to what NYU med school did. we'll see.

And I think you've NOT read the thread you are replying to, including the part where someone (you?) said "We need to have a real conversation about why we allow these universities..."

Ridiculous, and presumptuous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:colleges exploit the NFP tax status - and more and more the status quo is getting called out.

it's a mixture of endowments rising to insane heights coupled with the fact that the progressive types, who have always called this out, are now being joined by the super conservatives who have recently turned on elite colleges (even though they often graduated from one). it's an unlikely but powerful duo.

this article gets to the root of the issue

https://www.culawreview.org/journal/the-college-tax-scam-addressing-university-exploitation-of-the-501c3-tax-status

This a poorly written and poorly edited article. Seems like a second draft designed to go before an editorial board to determine whether or not it is a suitable subject for further research.