Netherlands General Election today

[Anonymous]

Wilders is a centrist compared to the left wing nut jobs running for office all over Europe.

Immigration is out of control and toxic.

[Anonymous]

I read today that he also ran on a promise to halt aid to Ukraine.
I think Europe is tired of helping other countries…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nothing like hate for foreigners to bring people together in politics.

I was surrounded in Rotterdam by a group of youths and almost got robbed. It was the same sort of folks who lived in the Bans Lieu in France. Basically, I’m sorry it’s not woke or politically correct to admit it, but the majority of problems are attributed to culture clash between migrants who are angry and refuse to assimilate. Even like 3rd generation. This isn’t “deprived youths in the poor areas” as the main pooblem. It’s simply a refusal or a disdain to adopt the liberal views of their host country. I get why Geert won. I’m sorry it’s so hard for people to just say it plainly. People need to fcking assimilate or stop migrating to western countries from places with backwards values.

Yes, and that is why the Netherlands, Italy, Poland and France will be gone from the pro migration EU in 5 years.

If immigrants don’t assimilate they must be expelled. There is not going to be a great socialist kumbaya.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I read today that he also ran on a promise to halt aid to Ukraine.
I think Europe is tired of helping other countries…

Nah - there is broad support for supporting Ukraine - people know the stakes for Western Europe are high …


“In the Netherlands there is broad support for our help to Ukraine," Ollongren told reporters on Friday. "I hope and expect this will not change in the new parliament. But the PVV is now the largest party and they have never been enthusiastic about support to Ukraine. They have even been pro-Russia at times.1 day ago
https://www.reuters.com › europe

Dutch minister says she hopes aid to Ukraine will continue despite ... - Reuters

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read today that he also ran on a promise to halt aid to Ukraine.
I think Europe is tired of helping other countries…

Nah - there is broad support for supporting Ukraine - people know the stakes for Western Europe are high …


“In the Netherlands there is broad support for our help to Ukraine," Ollongren told reporters on Friday. "I hope and expect this will not change in the new parliament. But the PVV is now the largest party and they have never been enthusiastic about support to Ukraine. They have even been pro-Russia at times.1 day ago
https://www.reuters.com › europe

Dutch minister says she hopes aid to Ukraine will continue despite ... - Reuters

The EU is united and steadfast in its support for Ukraine. It firmly condemns Russia's unprovoked and unjustified military aggression. In the first year following the invasion, the EU provided economic, humanitarian and military support for Ukraine worth over €67 billion.
https://european-union.europa.eu › ...
EU support for Ukraine | European Union

[Anonymous]

It remains highly doubtful Wilders will gain the support of a coalition government he needs to govern - he won less than 20% of the vote - a Majority of Dutch do not approve of his extremist views


Euro news
Netherlands' longtime ruling party says it won't form coalition government with far-right

Far-right leader Geert Wilders, left, greets Caroline van der Plas of the Farmers and Citizens Movement (BBB), right, during a meeting.
By Euronews with AP
Published on 24/11/2023 - 16:40
Geert Wilders' Party for Freedom (PVV) won 37 seats in the 150-seat lower house on Thursday.

The party of Dutch outgoing Prime Minister Mark Rutte said it would support a centre-right administration in parliament but not join the next government in the wake of the far-right party's election night win earlier this week.
The Party for Freedom (PVV) led by veteran anti-Islam lawmaker Geert Wilders, won 37 seats in the 150-seat lower house on Thursday.

The win means a seismic shift to the right of the political spectrum for the Netherlands.
According to a near-complete count of the votes, Rutte's People’s Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD) won 24 seats; 10 fewer than in the previous election.
Gom van Strien, a senator for the Party for Freedom, was appointed to investigate possible coalitions. They will debate his findings on Dec. 6.
Dilan Ÿilgöz-Zegerius, the new leader of People’s Party for Freedom and Democracy, said in a statement on X that, after losing 10 seats in the election, the longtime ruling party would “make possible and constructively support a centre-right Cabinet with good policies” but would not join a government.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It remains highly doubtful Wilders will gain the support of a coalition government he needs to govern - he won less than 20% of the vote - a Majority of Dutch do not approve of his extremist views


Euro news
Netherlands' longtime ruling party says it won't form coalition government with far-right

Far-right leader Geert Wilders, left, greets Caroline van der Plas of the Farmers and Citizens Movement (BBB), right, during a meeting.
By Euronews with AP
Published on 24/11/2023 - 16:40
Geert Wilders' Party for Freedom (PVV) won 37 seats in the 150-seat lower house on Thursday.

The party of Dutch outgoing Prime Minister Mark Rutte said it would support a centre-right administration in parliament but not join the next government in the wake of the far-right party's election night win earlier this week.
The Party for Freedom (PVV) led by veteran anti-Islam lawmaker Geert Wilders, won 37 seats in the 150-seat lower house on Thursday.

The win means a seismic shift to the right of the political spectrum for the Netherlands.
According to a near-complete count of the votes, Rutte's People’s Party for Freedom and Democracy (VVD) won 24 seats; 10 fewer than in the previous election.
Gom van Strien, a senator for the Party for Freedom, was appointed to investigate possible coalitions. They will debate his findings on Dec. 6.
Dilan Ÿilgöz-Zegerius, the new leader of People’s Party for Freedom and Democracy, said in a statement on X that, after losing 10 seats in the election, the longtime ruling party would “make possible and constructively support a centre-right Cabinet with good policies” but would not join a government.

Sorry less than 25% of the seats - all the other major parties have stated they will not form a coalition with his far right party - including the centrist right party.

It will be many months of negotiating and many concessions before he is close to governing ….

Holland has a fragmented electoral system - not the two party system here - but the vast majority do not share his far right views … enough do that they need to listen to their concerns: but Wilders does not have mandate to dictate radical Changes …

[Anonymous]

I don't agree with some of the analysis here. I live in the Netherlands now, and did 30 years ago. Was first here on a scholarship at the University of Amsterdam to research the rise in right wing movements in Western Europe and most of my work was around assimilation of 1960s and 1970s immigrants into France, Germany and Netherlands. It's not true that Syrians and Afghans aren't assimilating now, and the Dutch have amazing taal schools to get immigrant children up to speed on Dutch to join regular Dutch basis schools (primary) and other options for children over 12. There are many hardworking well integrated Syrians here. More people where I live now (Maastricht) are complaining of Moroccan youth being disruptive around the center and link increasing crime to new laws forbidding foreigners from going into coffee shops thereby creating a black market with aggressive sellers.

The housing crisis is THE biggest deal for most and it's easy to point the finger at immigrants for some.

Not all Dutch are as tolerant as the stereotypes. And Geert Wilders has more in common with some of the fundamentalist Muslims that he wants to deport. His platform is just as anti-LGBTQ and black and white in approach. It would be wrong to simply link his support as tied to those who see Muslims as a threat to Dutch tolerance. The cities with the largest Muslim populations did not vote for his party, notably Amsterdam.

Just wanted to add some nuance to some of the generalizations I'm reading here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't agree with some of the analysis here. I live in the Netherlands now, and did 30 years ago. Was first here on a scholarship at the University of Amsterdam to research the rise in right wing movements in Western Europe and most of my work was around assimilation of 1960s and 1970s immigrants into France, Germany and Netherlands. It's not true that Syrians and Afghans aren't assimilating now, and the Dutch have amazing taal schools to get immigrant children up to speed on Dutch to join regular Dutch basis schools (primary) and other options for children over 12. There are many hardworking well integrated Syrians here. More people where I live now (Maastricht) are complaining of Moroccan youth being disruptive around the center and link increasing crime to new laws forbidding foreigners from going into coffee shops thereby creating a black market with aggressive sellers.

The housing crisis is THE biggest deal for most and it's easy to point the finger at immigrants for some.

Not all Dutch are as tolerant as the stereotypes. And Geert Wilders has more in common with some of the fundamentalist Muslims that he wants to deport. His platform is just as anti-LGBTQ and black and white in approach. It would be wrong to simply link his support as tied to those who see Muslims as a threat to Dutch tolerance. The cities with the largest Muslim populations did not vote for his party, notably Amsterdam.

Just wanted to add some nuance to some of the generalizations I'm reading here.

This. But the Americans can’t deal in nuance and think their opinion matters ON EVERYTHING.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The issue is immigration. People from Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan don't seem particularly interested in becoming Dutch and accepting Dutch norms - whether the role of women, LGBTQ, work, etc etc. Plus all the violence these immigrants often bring. The Dutch are fed up. It's a small country. It's not like there's a lot of space. Everyone needs to live together. The immigrants that Holland has taken do not seem inclined to assimilate, even with all the benefits. The Dutch are as liberal as ever. But the immigrants are not generally tolerant. So there's a very strong electoral backlash.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't agree with some of the analysis here. I live in the Netherlands now, and did 30 years ago. Was first here on a scholarship at the University of Amsterdam to research the rise in right wing movements in Western Europe and most of my work was around assimilation of 1960s and 1970s immigrants into France, Germany and Netherlands. It's not true that Syrians and Afghans aren't assimilating now, and the Dutch have amazing taal schools to get immigrant children up to speed on Dutch to join regular Dutch basis schools (primary) and other options for children over 12. There are many hardworking well integrated Syrians here. More people where I live now (Maastricht) are complaining of Moroccan youth being disruptive around the center and link increasing crime to new laws forbidding foreigners from going into coffee shops thereby creating a black market with aggressive sellers.

The housing crisis is THE biggest deal for most and it's easy to point the finger at immigrants for some.

Not all Dutch are as tolerant as the stereotypes. And Geert Wilders has more in common with some of the fundamentalist Muslims that he wants to deport. His platform is just as anti-LGBTQ and black and white in approach. It would be wrong to simply link his support as tied to those who see Muslims as a threat to Dutch tolerance. The cities with the largest Muslim populations did not vote for his party, notably Amsterdam.

Just wanted to add some nuance to some of the generalizations I'm reading here.

I really wonder if you are a man. I have a female friend who has lived in different cities in the Netherlands and is now in Amsterdam. She says the amount of catcalling is so out of control when you walk down so many street and 99% of the men who are making incredibly rude sexual comments and then making threatening comments and spitting when they are ignored or rejected are immigrants from North Africa or the Middle East or other parts of Africa. She says ask any female if they have gone to cities in the Netherlands and been harassed and they will say yes. It is so out of control.

So while she is liberal and believes there are many positive things that immigrants bring and do jobs Dutch often don't want to do, she is really mad that women are constantly harassed. She has been to Latin America, so I asked is it like being in Latin America, and she said absolutely not. It might be whistling and some comments but nothing at the level that is going on in the Netherlands now. She said so many women are just so sick and tired of it and are going to vote for someone who might bring some hope that it can stop.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't agree with some of the analysis here. I live in the Netherlands now, and did 30 years ago. Was first here on a scholarship at the University of Amsterdam to research the rise in right wing movements in Western Europe and most of my work was around assimilation of 1960s and 1970s immigrants into France, Germany and Netherlands. It's not true that Syrians and Afghans aren't assimilating now, and the Dutch have amazing taal schools to get immigrant children up to speed on Dutch to join regular Dutch basis schools (primary) and other options for children over 12. There are many hardworking well integrated Syrians here. More people where I live now (Maastricht) are complaining of Moroccan youth being disruptive around the center and link increasing crime to new laws forbidding foreigners from going into coffee shops thereby creating a black market with aggressive sellers.

The housing crisis is THE biggest deal for most and it's easy to point the finger at immigrants for some.

Not all Dutch are as tolerant as the stereotypes. And Geert Wilders has more in common with some of the fundamentalist Muslims that he wants to deport. His platform is just as anti-LGBTQ and black and white in approach. It would be wrong to simply link his support as tied to those who see Muslims as a threat to Dutch tolerance. The cities with the largest Muslim populations did not vote for his party, notably Amsterdam.

Just wanted to add some nuance to some of the generalizations I'm reading here.

I really wonder if you are a man. I have a female friend who has lived in different cities in the Netherlands and is now in Amsterdam. She says the amount of catcalling is so out of control when you walk down so many street and 99% of the men who are making incredibly rude sexual comments and then making threatening comments and spitting when they are ignored or rejected are immigrants from North Africa or the Middle East or other parts of Africa. She says ask any female if they have gone to cities in the Netherlands and been harassed and they will say yes. It is so out of control.

So while she is liberal and believes there are many positive things that immigrants bring and do jobs Dutch often don't want to do, she is really mad that women are constantly harassed. She has been to Latin America, so I asked is it like being in Latin America, and she said absolutely not. It might be whistling and some comments but nothing at the level that is going on in the Netherlands now. She said so many women are just so sick and tired of it and are going to vote for someone who might bring some hope that it can stop.

We were on vacation in Amsterdam visiting family and none of the women were harassed ever. We walked everywhere. None of my female family in the Netherlands has complained that this is a thing. My good friends daughter is studying near Amsterdam and does not complain about this being a major issue .

The affordable housing crisis is definitely worrying many people though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't agree with some of the analysis here. I live in the Netherlands now, and did 30 years ago. Was first here on a scholarship at the University of Amsterdam to research the rise in right wing movements in Western Europe and most of my work was around assimilation of 1960s and 1970s immigrants into France, Germany and Netherlands. It's not true that Syrians and Afghans aren't assimilating now, and the Dutch have amazing taal schools to get immigrant children up to speed on Dutch to join regular Dutch basis schools (primary) and other options for children over 12. There are many hardworking well integrated Syrians here. More people where I live now (Maastricht) are complaining of Moroccan youth being disruptive around the center and link increasing crime to new laws forbidding foreigners from going into coffee shops thereby creating a black market with aggressive sellers.

The housing crisis is THE biggest deal for most and it's easy to point the finger at immigrants for some.

Not all Dutch are as tolerant as the stereotypes. And Geert Wilders has more in common with some of the fundamentalist Muslims that he wants to deport. His platform is just as anti-LGBTQ and black and white in approach. It would be wrong to simply link his support as tied to those who see Muslims as a threat to Dutch tolerance. The cities with the largest Muslim populations did not vote for his party, notably Amsterdam.

Just wanted to add some nuance to some of the generalizations I'm reading here.

Agree with your assessment

Plus the vast majority of Dutch do not support Wilders extremist views and it is very unlikely he can form a coalition government unless he tones his rhetoric and policies right down. So far none of the other major parties have agreed to work with him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read today that he also ran on a promise to halt aid to Ukraine.
I think Europe is tired of helping other countries…

Nah - there is broad support for supporting Ukraine - people know the stakes for Western Europe are high …


“In the Netherlands there is broad support for our help to Ukraine," Ollongren told reporters on Friday. "I hope and expect this will not change in the new parliament. But the PVV is now the largest party and they have never been enthusiastic about support to Ukraine. They have even been pro-Russia at times.1 day ago
https://www.reuters.com › europe

Dutch minister says she hopes aid to Ukraine will continue despite ... - Reuters

So you agree that he is, in fact, anti Ukraine help?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I read today that he also ran on a promise to halt aid to Ukraine.
I think Europe is tired of helping other countries…

Nah - there is broad support for supporting Ukraine - people know the stakes for Western Europe are high …


“In the Netherlands there is broad support for our help to Ukraine," Ollongren told reporters on Friday. "I hope and expect this will not change in the new parliament. But the PVV is now the largest party and they have never been enthusiastic about support to Ukraine. They have even been pro-Russia at times.1 day ago
https://www.reuters.com › europe

Dutch minister says she hopes aid to Ukraine will continue despite ... - Reuters

So you agree that he is, in fact, anti Ukraine help?

He may be but he only won <25% of seats and there is broad support for Ukraine in the Netherlands as in most of EU. Wilders can’t even form a coalition government for now as none of the other main parties want to work with him on his extreme agenda. He will need to negotiate for a very long time to form a coalition government and I imagine this is one area where he will need to compromise.