Parental Involvement in Apps

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s bizarre to me that “zero involvement” seems to be a sort of badge of honor for some posters. This is a huge step in a kids life and most need support of some kind. It’s less surprising that some people full on write/do everything (good luck to those kids, yikes).

We helped keep our kids on track with reminders about scheduling—they came up with the actual schedule for working on essays themselves, but needed help with thinking forward. We reviewed essays and made suggestions for edits, some of which they took, some they rejected. Reviewed the final draft just to check for grammar, punctuation etc.

It’s a badge of honor in this cesspool of DCUM parental helicoptering. My DD did it all by herself (only asked for help filling in what degrees DH and I have because she wasn’t sure). Her essay was edited in her English class, but DH and I saw not one part of the application. I’m very proud. She was just accepted at her top choice with merit aid. For me, it’s absolutely a badge of honor.

What really surprises me is that it’s mostly the kids who want T20 that “need” all the help. That doesn’t compute to me.

Merit aid on Nov. 2? Where is this? FAFSA isn't even available yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s bizarre to me that “zero involvement” seems to be a sort of badge of honor for some posters. This is a huge step in a kids life and most need support of some kind. It’s less surprising that some people full on write/do everything (good luck to those kids, yikes).

We helped keep our kids on track with reminders about scheduling—they came up with the actual schedule for working on essays themselves, but needed help with thinking forward. We reviewed essays and made suggestions for edits, some of which they took, some they rejected. Reviewed the final draft just to check for grammar, punctuation etc.

It’s a badge of honor in this cesspool of DCUM parental helicoptering. My DD did it all by herself (only asked for help filling in what degrees DH and I have because she wasn’t sure). Her essay was edited in her English class, but DH and I saw not one part of the application. I’m very proud. She was just accepted at her top choice with merit aid. For me, it’s absolutely a badge of honor.

What really surprises me is that it’s mostly the kids who want T20 that “need” all the help. That doesn’t compute to me.

Merit aid on Nov. 2? Where is this? FAFSA isn't even available yet.

Maybe I’m using merit aid incorrectly. They gave her a $15,000 scholarship. It’s Michigan State University.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid submitted 11 apps EA or rolling. He worked with an essay coach over the summer, best decision ever. She helped with the Common App essay, but he did the supplementals himself. I helped him put a resume together. He had never seen one before, and it was required by 2 colleges.

Aren’t the supplements more important than the personal statement?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be honest here.

What exactly did you look at in this process (EA/ED/REA)?
Did you edit?
Directly revise?
Or just take over entirely?

What’s next?

Honestly? I revised directly in google docs.

Same. DD was sitting next to me as we talked through the edits. I’m just much better at making the cuts to get the word count down. It was definitely collaborative.

Wow. Sounds like you should be at least a co-applicant. You should not be typing in google docs or writing.

For mine, I gave feedback w/ Google docs comments. We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down, but she came up w/ syntax for problem spots. I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc. Or, I'd ask something like -- you say this, but the context indicates you're heading here. Where are you going? Or, do you really like Sartre? What teen really likes Sartre? -- you need to sell that or qualify it unless you want to sound pretentious or like your parent wrote it! My suggestions were things like maybe using parentheses here, or saying that one sentence was really effective and maybe lead w/ that.

It should be coaching/feedback. Not editing/writing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s bizarre to me that “zero involvement” seems to be a sort of badge of honor for some posters. This is a huge step in a kids life and most need support of some kind. It’s less surprising that some people full on write/do everything (good luck to those kids, yikes).

We helped keep our kids on track with reminders about scheduling—they came up with the actual schedule for working on essays themselves, but needed help with thinking forward. We reviewed essays and made suggestions for edits, some of which they took, some they rejected. Reviewed the final draft just to check for grammar, punctuation etc.

It’s a badge of honor in this cesspool of DCUM parental helicoptering. My DD did it all by herself (only asked for help filling in what degrees DH and I have because she wasn’t sure). Her essay was edited in her English class, but DH and I saw not one part of the application. I’m very proud. She was just accepted at her top choice with merit aid. For me, it’s absolutely a badge of honor.

What really surprises me is that it’s mostly the kids who want T20 that “need” all the help. That doesn’t compute to me.

Merit aid on Nov. 2? Where is this? FAFSA isn't even available yet.

Maybe I’m using merit aid incorrectly. They gave her a $15,000 scholarship. It’s Michigan State University.

You're fine. Many schools don't require FAFSA for merit aid. PP may not realize that or may have confused merit w/ need.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be honest here.

What exactly did you look at in this process (EA/ED/REA)?
Did you edit?
Directly revise?
Or just take over entirely?

What’s next?

Honestly? I revised directly in google docs.

Same. DD was sitting next to me as we talked through the edits. I’m just much better at making the cuts to get the word count down. It was definitely collaborative.

Wow. Sounds like you should be at least a co-applicant. You should not be typing in google docs or writing.

For mine, I gave feedback w/ Google docs comments. We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down, but she came up w/ syntax for problem spots. I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc. Or, I'd ask something like -- you say this, but the context indicates you're heading here. Where are you going? Or, do you really like Sartre? What teen really likes Sartre? -- you need to sell that or qualify it unless you want to sound pretentious or like your parent wrote it! My suggestions were things like maybe using parentheses here, or saying that one sentence was really effective and maybe lead w/ that.

It should be coaching/feedback. Not editing/writing.

NP. Reading these it sounds like you both did the same thing. She "talked" you "chatted." You both helped in the exact same way, who cares who actually typed the edits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I started the non-profit so aren’t I the best one to write about it. Just kidding my kids are tok young

But, you're not far from the mark with some of these parents. Honestly, I get that it's a crazy process and am all about helping, but the kid has got to do their own writing. Offer feedback or ask questions or even do research on unique aspects of the college that kid might want to include in supplements, but don't write or rewrite in the name of editing. If it's the kid "putting their spin" on the your writing or vice versa, you are still a writer in the process. It should be the kid. Parent writing/heavy editing just smacks of entitlement -- like the subtext is "my Big 3 kid deserves this, so I'm just part of the process." Ugh.

I do think conversing w/ kids about aspects of the essay helps them clarify their ideas, and for essays where they have to write about themselves, parents (& friends) can be really useful to help them see themselves from outside themselves. But, parents shouldn't be writing or sculpting or whatever people want to rename it as.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be honest here.

What exactly did you look at in this process (EA/ED/REA)?
Did you edit?
Directly revise?
Or just take over entirely?

What’s next?

Honestly? I revised directly in google docs.

Same. DD was sitting next to me as we talked through the edits. I’m just much better at making the cuts to get the word count down. It was definitely collaborative.

Wow. Sounds like you should be at least a co-applicant. You should not be typing in google docs or writing.

For mine, I gave feedback w/ Google docs comments. We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down, but she came up w/ syntax for problem spots. I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc. Or, I'd ask something like -- you say this, but the context indicates you're heading here. Where are you going? Or, do you really like Sartre? What teen really likes Sartre? -- you need to sell that or qualify it unless you want to sound pretentious or like your parent wrote it! My suggestions were things like maybe using parentheses here, or saying that one sentence was really effective and maybe lead w/ that.

It should be coaching/feedback. Not editing/writing.

NP. Reading these it sounds like you both did the same thing. She "talked" you "chatted." You both helped in the exact same way, who cares who actually typed the edits.

Nope. I didn't tell her what to say or directly impact the essay. You extrapolated "chatted" to mean dictated in my case and the opposite for the other poster. Try to justify this as you might.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be honest here.

What exactly did you look at in this process (EA/ED/REA)?
Did you edit?
Directly revise?
Or just take over entirely?

What’s next?

Honestly? I revised directly in google docs.

Same. DD was sitting next to me as we talked through the edits. I’m just much better at making the cuts to get the word count down. It was definitely collaborative.

Wow. Sounds like you should be at least a co-applicant. You should not be typing in google docs or writing.

For mine, I gave feedback w/ Google docs comments. We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down, but she came up w/ syntax for problem spots. I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc. Or, I'd ask something like -- you say this, but the context indicates you're heading here. Where are you going? Or, do you really like Sartre? What teen really likes Sartre? -- you need to sell that or qualify it unless you want to sound pretentious or like your parent wrote it! My suggestions were things like maybe using parentheses here, or saying that one sentence was really effective and maybe lead w/ that.

It should be coaching/feedback. Not editing/writing.

NP. Reading these it sounds like you both did the same thing. She "talked" you "chatted." You both helped in the exact same way, who cares who actually typed the edits.

Nope. I didn't tell her what to say or directly impact the essay. You extrapolated "chatted" to mean dictated in my case and the opposite for the other poster. Try to justify this as you might.

Man you helicopters will go to great length to justify your involvement. It’s fascinating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be honest here.

What exactly did you look at in this process (EA/ED/REA)?
Did you edit?
Directly revise?
Or just take over entirely?

What’s next?

Honestly? I revised directly in google docs.

Same. DD was sitting next to me as we talked through the edits. I’m just much better at making the cuts to get the word count down. It was definitely collaborative.

Wow. Sounds like you should be at least a co-applicant. You should not be typing in google docs or writing.

For mine, I gave feedback w/ Google docs comments. We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down, but she came up w/ syntax for problem spots. I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc. Or, I'd ask something like -- you say this, but the context indicates you're heading here. Where are you going? Or, do you really like Sartre? What teen really likes Sartre? -- you need to sell that or qualify it unless you want to sound pretentious or like your parent wrote it! My suggestions were things like maybe using parentheses here, or saying that one sentence was really effective and maybe lead w/ that.

It should be coaching/feedback. Not editing/writing.

NP. Reading these it sounds like you both did the same thing. She "talked" you "chatted." You both helped in the exact same way, who cares who actually typed the edits.

Nope. I didn't tell her what to say or directly impact the essay. You extrapolated "chatted" to mean dictated in my case and the opposite for the other poster. Try to justify this as you might.

Well, you're a terrible editor. You've got a revisionist history.

You wrote:

"We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down..."

"I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc"

Why are you so defensive about what you wrote? LOL.

[Anonymous]

DS has severe ADHD and high-functioning ASD and was completely clueless about the college admissions process, despite a high IQ and strong academics. I helped him a lot.

1. I came up with a list of colleges and universities appropriate for his major and stats.
We visited the summer before senior year, and tweaked the list based on his preferences.

3. Essays: He had a serious writing block, so we talked about what admissions officers might want to know about him, and how he could get across the points he wanted to make (what made him stand out). I re-read all his drafts and suggested edits and rewrites. He followed some of my suggestions and discarded others. He wrote in his voice. This was the last year before ChatGPT took over.

4. I managed the deadlines for transcripts, sending ACT and AP scores, etc.

5. He navigated the Common App by himself, sometimes calling me over to confirm he had understood the question correctly, or ask me about the parent information portion. I helped him more with other school-specific applications, because he wanted someone to confirm he was following directions correctly.

6. I did the FAFSA and CSS and called him over when I needed his signature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be honest here.

What exactly did you look at in this process (EA/ED/REA)?
Did you edit?
Directly revise?
Or just take over entirely?

What’s next?

Honestly? I revised directly in google docs.

Same. DD was sitting next to me as we talked through the edits. I’m just much better at making the cuts to get the word count down. It was definitely collaborative.

Wow. Sounds like you should be at least a co-applicant. You should not be typing in google docs or writing.

For mine, I gave feedback w/ Google docs comments. We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down, but she came up w/ syntax for problem spots. I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc. Or, I'd ask something like -- you say this, but the context indicates you're heading here. Where are you going? Or, do you really like Sartre? What teen really likes Sartre? -- you need to sell that or qualify it unless you want to sound pretentious or like your parent wrote it! My suggestions were things like maybe using parentheses here, or saying that one sentence was really effective and maybe lead w/ that.

It should be coaching/feedback. Not editing/writing.

NP. Reading these it sounds like you both did the same thing. She "talked" you "chatted." You both helped in the exact same way, who cares who actually typed the edits.

Nope. I didn't tell her what to say or directly impact the essay. You extrapolated "chatted" to mean dictated in my case and the opposite for the other poster. Try to justify this as you might.

Well, you're a terrible editor. You've got a revisionist history.

You wrote:

"We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down..."

"I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc"

Why are you so defensive about what you wrote? LOL.

I'm not, but you seem to have reading comp issues. None of that is writing. To say something isn't working is called feedback. That's what I did. That isn't remotely the same as opening the google doc and rewriting the kid's words. But keep trying to claim that rewriting is the same as offering feedback to justify cheating the process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s bizarre to me that “zero involvement” seems to be a sort of badge of honor for some posters. This is a huge step in a kids life and most need support of some kind. It’s less surprising that some people full on write/do everything (good luck to those kids, yikes).

We helped keep our kids on track with reminders about scheduling—they came up with the actual schedule for working on essays themselves, but needed help with thinking forward. We reviewed essays and made suggestions for edits, some of which they took, some they rejected. Reviewed the final draft just to check for grammar, punctuation etc.

Let me explain their mindset to you. A lot of people on DCUM feel competitive, and sometimes channel that competition in things that don't actually matter. One of those areas is how precocious their kid is. Just read some of the threads on chores: they're laughably insane. It's a bunch of people bragging about how early they're making their little kids empty the dishwasher! They've entirely lost track of the fact that none of it matters, because no chore has a challenging learning curve, and every young adult knows how to do laundry, make a bed, vacuum, etc. Sure, they want their kids contributing to the household, but there's a lot of leeway for that, and contributing comes in many forms.

This is the logical next step. The parents who were so proud that Kiddo could put the trash to the curb, feed the dog and scoop the litter box at 7 will be equally proud that Kiddo did all their college apps alone.

They are oblivious to the fact that in the long run, it doesn't really matter. The arc of life is long, success depends on a measure of luck, work ethic and social and technical intelligence, and the very specific skill of doing things by themselves at an early age isn't - AT ALL - representative of the skills an adult will need to be "successful"...

...But anything to one-up other people online

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be honest here.

What exactly did you look at in this process (EA/ED/REA)?
Did you edit?
Directly revise?
Or just take over entirely?

What’s next?

Honestly? I revised directly in google docs.

Same. DD was sitting next to me as we talked through the edits. I’m just much better at making the cuts to get the word count down. It was definitely collaborative.

Wow. Sounds like you should be at least a co-applicant. You should not be typing in google docs or writing.

For mine, I gave feedback w/ Google docs comments. We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down, but she came up w/ syntax for problem spots. I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc. Or, I'd ask something like -- you say this, but the context indicates you're heading here. Where are you going? Or, do you really like Sartre? What teen really likes Sartre? -- you need to sell that or qualify it unless you want to sound pretentious or like your parent wrote it! My suggestions were things like maybe using parentheses here, or saying that one sentence was really effective and maybe lead w/ that.

It should be coaching/feedback. Not editing/writing.

NP. Reading these it sounds like you both did the same thing. She "talked" you "chatted." You both helped in the exact same way, who cares who actually typed the edits.

Nope. I didn't tell her what to say or directly impact the essay. You extrapolated "chatted" to mean dictated in my case and the opposite for the other poster. Try to justify this as you might.

Well, you're a terrible editor. You've got a revisionist history.

You wrote:

"We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down..."

"I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc"

Why are you so defensive about what you wrote? LOL.

I'm not, but you seem to have reading comp issues. None of that is writing. To say something isn't working is called feedback. That's what I did. That isn't remotely the same as opening the google doc and rewriting the kid's words. But keep trying to claim that rewriting is the same as offering feedback to justify cheating the process.

Your "coaching" seems a lot like "editing" to me. Why? Because you wrote that's exactly what you did. You can deny it all you want, but you're not better than the woman whose daughter sat right next to her and "talked through the edits," who you so willfully condemned.

Me thinks you doth protest too much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s bizarre to me that “zero involvement” seems to be a sort of badge of honor for some posters. This is a huge step in a kids life and most need support of some kind. It’s less surprising that some people full on write/do everything (good luck to those kids, yikes).

We helped keep our kids on track with reminders about scheduling—they came up with the actual schedule for working on essays themselves, but needed help with thinking forward. We reviewed essays and made suggestions for edits, some of which they took, some they rejected. Reviewed the final draft just to check for grammar, punctuation etc.

Let me explain their mindset to you. A lot of people on DCUM feel competitive, and sometimes channel that competition in things that don't actually matter. One of those areas is how precocious their kid is. Just read some of the threads on chores: they're laughably insane. It's a bunch of people bragging about how early they're making their little kids empty the dishwasher! They've entirely lost track of the fact that none of it matters, because no chore has a challenging learning curve, and every young adult knows how to do laundry, make a bed, vacuum, etc. Sure, they want their kids contributing to the household, but there's a lot of leeway for that, and contributing comes in many forms.

This is the logical next step. The parents who were so proud that Kiddo could put the trash to the curb, feed the dog and scoop the litter box at 7 will be equally proud that Kiddo did all their college apps alone.

They are oblivious to the fact that in the long run, it doesn't really matter. The arc of life is long, success depends on a measure of luck, work ethic and social and technical intelligence, and the very specific skill of doing things by themselves at an early age isn't - AT ALL - representative of the skills an adult will need to be "successful"...

...But anything to one-up other people online

Yeah. My ADHD kid needs a little executive function help. Nothing wrong w/ that. Even highly focused older sib had trouble w/ the process. It is so much. Not agreeing w/ parents who write for their kids or use "edit" as code for writing, but having someone tell you -- "this sounds like two essays smushed together" or having someone suggest "maybe you should get some of these apps in early, so you aren't doing them all on the same day" or having someone advise on ECs "maybe you group these together, so you can add this," can help guide a kid or keep them on track in the process.