Parental Involvement in Apps

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s bizarre to me that “zero involvement” seems to be a sort of badge of honor for some posters. This is a huge step in a kids life and most need support of some kind. It’s less surprising that some people full on write/do everything (good luck to those kids, yikes).

We helped keep our kids on track with reminders about scheduling—they came up with the actual schedule for working on essays themselves, but needed help with thinking forward. We reviewed essays and made suggestions for edits, some of which they took, some they rejected. Reviewed the final draft just to check for grammar, punctuation etc.

Let me explain their mindset to you. A lot of people on DCUM feel competitive, and sometimes channel that competition in things that don't actually matter. One of those areas is how precocious their kid is. Just read some of the threads on chores: they're laughably insane. It's a bunch of people bragging about how early they're making their little kids empty the dishwasher! They've entirely lost track of the fact that none of it matters, because no chore has a challenging learning curve, and every young adult knows how to do laundry, make a bed, vacuum, etc. Sure, they want their kids contributing to the household, but there's a lot of leeway for that, and contributing comes in many forms.

This is the logical next step. The parents who were so proud that Kiddo could put the trash to the curb, feed the dog and scoop the litter box at 7 will be equally proud that Kiddo did all their college apps alone.

They are oblivious to the fact that in the long run, it doesn't really matter. The arc of life is long, success depends on a measure of luck, work ethic and social and technical intelligence, and the very specific skill of doing things by themselves at an early age isn't - AT ALL - representative of the skills an adult will need to be "successful"...

...But anything to one-up other people online

+1 I scheduled my 17yo's doctor appt yesterday after asking DC about work shifts. That's a huge no-no on DCUM, and it made me laugh to think about how I'd be pilloried by gold starred moms-of-the-year should the info come out in public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be honest here.

What exactly did you look at in this process (EA/ED/REA)?
Did you edit?
Directly revise?
Or just take over entirely?

What’s next?

Honestly? I revised directly in google docs.

Same. DD was sitting next to me as we talked through the edits. I’m just much better at making the cuts to get the word count down. It was definitely collaborative.

Wow. Sounds like you should be at least a co-applicant. You should not be typing in google docs or writing.

For mine, I gave feedback w/ Google docs comments. We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down, but she came up w/ syntax for problem spots. I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc. Or, I'd ask something like -- you say this, but the context indicates you're heading here. Where are you going? Or, do you really like Sartre? What teen really likes Sartre? -- you need to sell that or qualify it unless you want to sound pretentious or like your parent wrote it! My suggestions were things like maybe using parentheses here, or saying that one sentence was really effective and maybe lead w/ that.

It should be coaching/feedback. Not editing/writing.

NP. Reading these it sounds like you both did the same thing. She "talked" you "chatted." You both helped in the exact same way, who cares who actually typed the edits.

Nope. I didn't tell her what to say or directly impact the essay. You extrapolated "chatted" to mean dictated in my case and the opposite for the other poster. Try to justify this as you might.

Well, you're a terrible editor. You've got a revisionist history.

You wrote:

"We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down..."

"I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc"

Why are you so defensive about what you wrote? LOL.

I'm not, but you seem to have reading comp issues. None of that is writing. To say something isn't working is called feedback. That's what I did. That isn't remotely the same as opening the google doc and rewriting the kid's words. But keep trying to claim that rewriting is the same as offering feedback to justify cheating the process.

Your "coaching" seems a lot like "editing" to me. Why? Because you wrote that's exactly what you did. You can deny it all you want, but you're not better than the woman whose daughter sat right next to her and "talked through the edits," who you so willfully condemned.

Me thinks you doth protest too much.

I can see you are desperate to try to make this a thing. Again, work on that reading comp. None of what I said indicates editing. I didn't make any fixes or write anything or suggest specifics. It's called feedback. Same as an English teacher would give. This is what I wrote:

" I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc. Or, I'd ask something like -- you say this, but the context indicates you're heading here. Where are you going?"

Deal with your own demons, but leave me out of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be honest here.

What exactly did you look at in this process (EA/ED/REA)?
Did you edit?
Directly revise?
Or just take over entirely?

What’s next?

Honestly? I revised directly in google docs.

Same. DD was sitting next to me as we talked through the edits. I’m just much better at making the cuts to get the word count down. It was definitely collaborative.

Wow. Sounds like you should be at least a co-applicant. You should not be typing in google docs or writing.

For mine, I gave feedback w/ Google docs comments. We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down, but she came up w/ syntax for problem spots. I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc. Or, I'd ask something like -- you say this, but the context indicates you're heading here. Where are you going? Or, do you really like Sartre? What teen really likes Sartre? -- you need to sell that or qualify it unless you want to sound pretentious or like your parent wrote it! My suggestions were things like maybe using parentheses here, or saying that one sentence was really effective and maybe lead w/ that.

It should be coaching/feedback. Not editing/writing.

NP. Reading these it sounds like you both did the same thing. She "talked" you "chatted." You both helped in the exact same way, who cares who actually typed the edits.

Nope. I didn't tell her what to say or directly impact the essay. You extrapolated "chatted" to mean dictated in my case and the opposite for the other poster. Try to justify this as you might.

Well, you're a terrible editor. You've got a revisionist history.

You wrote:

"We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down..."

"I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc"

Why are you so defensive about what you wrote? LOL.

I'm not, but you seem to have reading comp issues. None of that is writing. To say something isn't working is called feedback. That's what I did. That isn't remotely the same as opening the google doc and rewriting the kid's words. But keep trying to claim that rewriting is the same as offering feedback to justify cheating the process.

Your "coaching" seems a lot like "editing" to me. Why? Because you wrote that's exactly what you did. You can deny it all you want, but you're not better than the woman whose daughter sat right next to her and "talked through the edits," who you so willfully condemned.

Me thinks you doth protest too much.

I can see you are desperate to try to make this a thing. Again, work on that reading comp. None of what I said indicates editing. I didn't make any fixes or write anything or suggest specifics. It's called feedback. Same as an English teacher would give. This is what I wrote:

" I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc. Or, I'd ask something like -- you say this, but the context indicates you're heading here. Where are you going?"

Deal with your own demons, but leave me out of it.

I don't have any demons, I helped my DC's with their essays -- just like the two of you did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be honest here.

What exactly did you look at in this process (EA/ED/REA)?
Did you edit?
Directly revise?
Or just take over entirely?

What’s next?

Honestly? I revised directly in google docs.

Same. DD was sitting next to me as we talked through the edits. I’m just much better at making the cuts to get the word count down. It was definitely collaborative.

Wow. Sounds like you should be at least a co-applicant. You should not be typing in google docs or writing.

For mine, I gave feedback w/ Google docs comments. We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down, but she came up w/ syntax for problem spots. I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc. Or, I'd ask something like -- you say this, but the context indicates you're heading here. Where are you going? Or, do you really like Sartre? What teen really likes Sartre? -- you need to sell that or qualify it unless you want to sound pretentious or like your parent wrote it! My suggestions were things like maybe using parentheses here, or saying that one sentence was really effective and maybe lead w/ that.

It should be coaching/feedback. Not editing/writing.

NP. Reading these it sounds like you both did the same thing. She "talked" you "chatted." You both helped in the exact same way, who cares who actually typed the edits.

Nope. I didn't tell her what to say or directly impact the essay. You extrapolated "chatted" to mean dictated in my case and the opposite for the other poster. Try to justify this as you might.

Well, you're a terrible editor. You've got a revisionist history.

You wrote:

"We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down..."

"I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc"

Why are you so defensive about what you wrote? LOL.

I'm not, but you seem to have reading comp issues. None of that is writing. To say something isn't working is called feedback. That's what I did. That isn't remotely the same as opening the google doc and rewriting the kid's words. But keep trying to claim that rewriting is the same as offering feedback to justify cheating the process.

Your "coaching" seems a lot like "editing" to me. Why? Because you wrote that's exactly what you did. You can deny it all you want, but you're not better than the woman whose daughter sat right next to her and "talked through the edits," who you so willfully condemned.

Me thinks you doth protest too much.

I can see you are desperate to try to make this a thing. Again, work on that reading comp. None of what I said indicates editing. I didn't make any fixes or write anything or suggest specifics. It's called feedback. Same as an English teacher would give. This is what I wrote:

" I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc. Or, I'd ask something like -- you say this, but the context indicates you're heading here. Where are you going?"

Deal with your own demons, but leave me out of it.

DP
Editing, feedback…it’s all the same. Just because you gave the suggestion to rewrite but didn’t do the rewrite itself is really irrelevant. It’s all editing.

[Anonymous]

I rewrote them for a few more selective schools. Then he re-edited them.

Let’s see.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like everybody helps. There are very few people who really just let them go at it alone. Even the people who hire people “to help” then end up managing that process.

Best thing schools to do frankly is have kids submit a graded paper through the counselors report, recommendations, test, scores, résumé that goes through the college counselor along with GPA.

None of this essay bullshit where everyone spends months and months and months drafting the perfect thing with so much “editorial” help.

** And for the person earlier who mentioned that supplements are more important, I have read that as well from many AOs. And it’s why you see all of these new bespoke shops being set up to work on the supplements for the months of September and October. It’s truly a racket.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Let’s be honest here.

What exactly did you look at in this process (EA/ED/REA)?
Did you edit?
Directly revise?
Or just take over entirely?

What’s next?

Honestly? I revised directly in google docs.

Same. DD was sitting next to me as we talked through the edits. I’m just much better at making the cuts to get the word count down. It was definitely collaborative.

Wow. Sounds like you should be at least a co-applicant. You should not be typing in google docs or writing.

For mine, I gave feedback w/ Google docs comments. We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down, but she came up w/ syntax for problem spots. I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc. Or, I'd ask something like -- you say this, but the context indicates you're heading here. Where are you going? Or, do you really like Sartre? What teen really likes Sartre? -- you need to sell that or qualify it unless you want to sound pretentious or like your parent wrote it! My suggestions were things like maybe using parentheses here, or saying that one sentence was really effective and maybe lead w/ that.

It should be coaching/feedback. Not editing/writing.

NP. Reading these it sounds like you both did the same thing. She "talked" you "chatted." You both helped in the exact same way, who cares who actually typed the edits.

Nope. I didn't tell her what to say or directly impact the essay. You extrapolated "chatted" to mean dictated in my case and the opposite for the other poster. Try to justify this as you might.

Well, you're a terrible editor. You've got a revisionist history.

You wrote:

"We also chatted about problem spots or paring essays down..."

"I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc"

Why are you so defensive about what you wrote? LOL.

I'm not, but you seem to have reading comp issues. None of that is writing. To say something isn't working is called feedback. That's what I did. That isn't remotely the same as opening the google doc and rewriting the kid's words. But keep trying to claim that rewriting is the same as offering feedback to justify cheating the process.

Your "coaching" seems a lot like "editing" to me. Why? Because you wrote that's exactly what you did. You can deny it all you want, but you're not better than the woman whose daughter sat right next to her and "talked through the edits," who you so willfully condemned.

Me thinks you doth protest too much.

I can see you are desperate to try to make this a thing. Again, work on that reading comp. None of what I said indicates editing. I didn't make any fixes or write anything or suggest specifics. It's called feedback. Same as an English teacher would give. This is what I wrote:

" I identified spots that I wasn't sure worked -- syntax, tense, boring wordiness etc. Or, I'd ask something like -- you say this, but the context indicates you're heading here. Where are you going?"

Deal with your own demons, but leave me out of it.

I don't have any demons, I helped my DC's with their essays -- just like the two of you did.

I’m the first poster whose dd sat next to me. We talk led through the feedback, edits, revisions, whatever you want to call it. The poster chastising me pretty much did what I did. I have no qualms about it.

[Anonymous]

I helped with brainstorming and looked for typos. I noticed and reinforced deadlines. But I have to say that throughout the process I kept reminding myself that the kid is about to leave and will have to manage all of this on his own in college. It’s a slow process of handing off responsibilities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like everybody helps. There are very few people who really just let them go at it alone. Even the people who hire people “to help” then end up managing that process.

Best thing schools to do frankly is have kids submit a graded paper through the counselors report, recommendations, test, scores, résumé that goes through the college counselor along with GPA.

None of this essay bullshit where everyone spends months and months and months drafting the perfect thing with so much “editorial” help.

** And for the person earlier who mentioned that supplements are more important, I have read that as well from many AOs. And it’s why you see all of these new bespoke shops being set up to work on the supplements for the months of September and October. It’s truly a racket.

All of this.

[Anonymous]

I helped brainstorm ideas -- mainly, "what do you want the college to know about you?"
I proofread. I did not edit.
I made spreadsheets of deadlines, common supplemental questions, etc.
I monitored email for emails about webinars, interviews, etc. and made sure the kid signed up for those things.

I felt like an administrative assistant more than anything else.

BTW, do all kids hate checking email, or just mine?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like everybody helps. There are very few people who really just let them go at it alone. Even the people who hire people “to help” then end up managing that process.

Best thing schools to do frankly is have kids submit a graded paper through the counselors report, recommendations, test, scores, résumé that goes through the college counselor along with GPA.

None of this essay bullshit where everyone spends months and months and months drafting the perfect thing with so much “editorial” help.

** And for the person earlier who mentioned that supplements are more important, I have read that as well from many AOs. And it’s why you see all of these new bespoke shops being set up to work on the supplements for the months of September and October. It’s truly a racket.

I don’t disagree but Where would my MCPS student find a real graded paper? Even in AP Lang and Lit, there doesn’t seem to be much written work beyond a couple paragraphs prepping for the AP exam.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I helped brainstorm ideas -- mainly, "what do you want the college to know about you?"
I proofread. I did not edit.
I made spreadsheets of deadlines, common supplemental questions, etc.
I monitored email for emails about webinars, interviews, etc. and made sure the kid signed up for those things.

I felt like an administrative assistant more than anything else.

BTW, do all kids hate checking email, or just mine?

A LOT of kids hate checking email.
MOST kids could benefit from someone looking over their shoulder to double-check the smooth progression of their college apps.

The 17 year old who accepted help with college apps may end up being more successful than the 17 year old who didn't trust their insane parent with anything.

But let the idiots brag and chastise the rest of us, by all means. Less competition.

[Anonymous]

Of course I helped!

Public school kid with little access to an overextended H.S. counselor and no private college counselor. I’m a highly functioning adult and even I found the process confusing and overwhelming at times. Between the common app and school specific requirements, I think there were at least 25 separate essays or short answers required for 8 schools. While some responses could be recycled, the word count differed so they all needed to be reworked. Plus the resume, activities list, responses to questions, class lists as well as SRAR, etc.

DC did a large amount of work and a large part of the writing, and most of the work narrowing down the list of schools. But I did plenty of suggesting, editing, proofreading, and in a few instances the initial drafting. None of it was solely my work, but little of it was solely DC’s work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course I helped!

Public school kid with little access to an overextended H.S. counselor and no private college counselor. I’m a highly functioning adult and even I found the process confusing and overwhelming at times. Between the common app and school specific requirements, I think there were at least 25 separate essays or short answers required for 8 schools. While some responses could be recycled, the word count differed so they all needed to be reworked. Plus the resume, activities list, responses to questions, class lists as well as SRAR, etc.

DC did a large amount of work and a large part of the writing, and most of the work narrowing down the list of schools. But I did plenty of suggesting, editing, proofreading, and in a few instances the initial drafting. None of it was solely my work, but little of it was solely DC’s work.

Same here. Thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like everybody helps. There are very few people who really just let them go at it alone. Even the people who hire people “to help” then end up managing that process.

Best thing schools to do frankly is have kids submit a graded paper through the counselors report, recommendations, test, scores, résumé that goes through the college counselor along with GPA.

None of this essay bullshit where everyone spends months and months and months drafting the perfect thing with so much “editorial” help.

** And for the person earlier who mentioned that supplements are more important, I have read that as well from many AOs. And it’s why you see all of these new bespoke shops being set up to work on the supplements for the months of September and October. It’s truly a racket.

I don’t disagree but Where would my MCPS student find a real graded paper? Even in AP Lang and Lit, there doesn’t seem to be much written work beyond a couple paragraphs prepping for the AP exam.

So true. I am concerned my kid is not prepared for college classes.