Boundary study question

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think residential in the Thomson boundary may happen, but it's unlikely to result in a significant number of elementary-age children. That type of housing tends to be for childless working adults.

It would be foolish to close a cetntrally located school that is performing well, and in the long run they're going to need the space because SWWFS is so full. There aren't a lot of options for relieving crowding at SWWFS.

The answer to this is the new Shaw Middle School that will open in a handful of years. All of the current SWWFS are highly likely to be routed there instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think residential in the Thomson boundary may happen, but it's unlikely to result in a significant number of elementary-age children. That type of housing tends to be for childless working adults.

It would be foolish to close a cetntrally located school that is performing well, and in the long run they're going to need the space because SWWFS is so full. There aren't a lot of options for relieving crowding at SWWFS.

The answer to this is the new Shaw Middle School that will open in a handful of years. All of the current SWWFS are highly likely to be routed there instead.

Oh, that is true. But between now and then, Thomson can host some kids if needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP - as someone else mentioned, closing any schools has never been on the table for the boundary study, and I don’t see any sign it would be.

Re Thomson, I do hope you will get involved. Thomson has not had a PTO and it would be great for people to get one going. Also there is the Ward 2 Education Council at https://ward2edcouncil.org which is parents across schools organizing for the benefit of all of them; some parents have participated for Thomson from time to time but not as many as for some schools, and I encourage you to.

Finally Thomson is very likely to be feeding into the future MS at Euclid St (old Banneker site) which is pretty easy to reach by bus (or car or bike) from the area. It’s slated to open in fall 2028, when current 1st graders would go. Parents are trying to build up momentum for it and have a strong base of involved parents who help identify what people want in this MS to get a lot of families trying it out from day 1, and especially if your kid is grade 1 or younger, I encourage you to participate in that, which will largely happen through the W2EC.

OP here. Thank for this! We are starting a PTO this year to help fundraise for what staff thinks is needed. And yes! I'm already planning to join. Great to know about the Ward 2 Education Council!

I have heard about the potential switch to Euclid and have mixed feelings. On the one hand, it'll be a brand new school fed by some excellent elementaries, like Garrison and Seaton. And since we live in the Walker-Jones boundary, it'll be closer for us than SWW@FS. On the other, I already know SWW@FS is a great middle, and this is an unknown. Hoping Thomson families will get to choose between the two. Right now, we can choose between Jefferson Middle and SWW@FS, though nearly everyone picks SWW@FS.

Overall, just super glad no one thinks the school will close! Thanks for assuaging my fears!

[Anonymous]

First of all, I don't think Thompson is in any serious danger of being shut down. Yes, it's under enrolled, but not dramatically, and I think it's pretty obviously pandemic related, as you note, the location became less appealing.

I think the middle school path should really help. More and more people are wanting to stay at their IB elementary school with a crappy middle school feeder around there (Marie Reed, Garrison, Bruce-Monroe, etc). And some of those schools (notably Garrison) are starting to get a bit full. Garrison, for example, has a big K waitlist right now that's not moving. As Garrison and Ross and similar schools become more popular and get more and more full, and as more and more people go back to the office, Thompson is going to become more in demand.

(Disclaimer: My kids are IB for Tubman, at PK there now which is likely not a long term option for us, and we are considering Garrison, Seaton, and Thompson for later, with currently a small Garrison preference).

If you want to help fix the school, advocate for better outdoor space. I think that really holds it back in the younger grades, and you're in danger of not having a full PK4 class, which could really negatively impact retention.

But I really don't think you have to worry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First of all, I don't think Thompson is in any serious danger of being shut down. Yes, it's under enrolled, but not dramatically, and I think it's pretty obviously pandemic related, as you note, the location became less appealing.

I think the middle school path should really help. More and more people are wanting to stay at their IB elementary school with a crappy middle school feeder around there (Marie Reed, Garrison, Bruce-Monroe, etc). And some of those schools (notably Garrison) are starting to get a bit full. Garrison, for example, has a big K waitlist right now that's not moving. As Garrison and Ross and similar schools become more popular and get more and more full, and as more and more people go back to the office, Thompson is going to become more in demand.

(Disclaimer: My kids are IB for Tubman, at PK there now which is likely not a long term option for us, and we are considering Garrison, Seaton, and Thompson for later, with currently a small Garrison preference).

If you want to help fix the school, advocate for better outdoor space. I think that really holds it back in the younger grades, and you're in danger of not having a full PK4 class, which could really negatively impact retention.

But I really don't think you have to worry.

OP here. I hope you are right on the bolded! And good luck with your search. I'm obviously biased in favor of Thomson, but I don't think you can go wrong with any of those three, based on what other parents have told me about Garrison and Seaton.

Totally agree on Thomson's outdoor space problem - I think it turns parents off who would otherwise really like the school, including some of my neighbors who choose CHML instead just for that reason (another good option, to be fair!) I think the school is limited in what it can do about that unfortunately, so I'm not sure it'll change anytime soon. But you never know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also don’t think they’d close Thomson when it’s unclear what truly post-pandemic working conditions will be like. Feds are trying to force more folks back by the week & if Republicans get back into the WH, it could definitely happen. If Thomson doesn’t grow before the *next* boundary survey it may have a problem, but not yet…

In addition to all of the reasons stated above, I do not think they are going to close any school downtown. Regardless of number of workers coming back in person, there are a lot of conversations about how to reuse and redevelop downtown, including bringing more residents. https://www.reimaginedowntowndc.com/ They are going to want to keep capacity in case more residents move nearby. Also they just redid Franklin Park, does the school use that space at all?

Hey DCUM! OP here. Thank you sooo much for all these thoughtful responses. You are right, it's Thomson. And my own IB is indeed Walker-Jones, which I am not comfortable with at all.

I was nervous about people getting bad impressions of the school because of its enrollment struggles, glad to know its good reputation is more widespread than I had thought. To be clear, no one at the school has suggested it will close - this is probably my paranoia. But because of WFH, it is losing families who preferred it to their IB and for whom it was close to work. Those families are leaving the city, trying their IB, or finding another option. Some worked at the World Bank and apparently they are going back almost full-time so I'm really hoping things will pick up. I think Seaton is a good backup for us if my paranoia is right and Thomson were to close. But I love the school and its staff so much I don't want to leave. Plus for now, Seaton feeds Cardozo Middle, which I don't want.

I'll just go ahead and be a booster (sorry) and say that if you're looking for a solid school with an International Baccalaurette curriculum and a solid middle school feeder...Thomson is metro accessible! Also if you really are on the boundary study committee...parents love the school. Don't close it!

As for Franklin Park, don't get me started. There were originally plans for a playground but those got scrapped by businesses who wanted a feel like New York's Bryant Park and I guess no noisy kids. The compromise: One sad little slide. Otherwise, it's a gorgeous park for mostly non existent office workers near a Title I school lacking outdoor space. To be clear, the Thomson kids actually love their little indoor playgrounds, but I know they turn other parents off from the school who might otherwise consider it. The school does use the park for events. The previous poster who urged me to be an advocate is probably right, but I will probably have to start with the city on that issue, not the school.

We used to live right by Thomson and was excited about the Franklin Park makeover, but was really disappointed by what they chose to do with the play area. It’s…fine but not great— certainly not what I’d consider a real playground. This explanation makes sense and is too bad.

FWIW, Thomson had a great reputation when we lived over there, and we, like many others, ultimately moved for more space. It’s hard having two kids downtown. But given how popular Garrison is now, I’d imagine that those waiting to get in there may choose Thomson instead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I also don’t think they’d close Thomson when it’s unclear what truly post-pandemic working conditions will be like. Feds are trying to force more folks back by the week & if Republicans get back into the WH, it could definitely happen. If Thomson doesn’t grow before the *next* boundary survey it may have a problem, but not yet…

In addition to all of the reasons stated above, I do not think they are going to close any school downtown. Regardless of number of workers coming back in person, there are a lot of conversations about how to reuse and redevelop downtown, including bringing more residents. https://www.reimaginedowntowndc.com/ They are going to want to keep capacity in case more residents move nearby. Also they just redid Franklin Park, does the school use that space at all?

Hey DCUM! OP here. Thank you sooo much for all these thoughtful responses. You are right, it's Thomson. And my own IB is indeed Walker-Jones, which I am not comfortable with at all.

I was nervous about people getting bad impressions of the school because of its enrollment struggles, glad to know its good reputation is more widespread than I had thought. To be clear, no one at the school has suggested it will close - this is probably my paranoia. But because of WFH, it is losing families who preferred it to their IB and for whom it was close to work. Those families are leaving the city, trying their IB, or finding another option. Some worked at the World Bank and apparently they are going back almost full-time so I'm really hoping things will pick up. I think Seaton is a good backup for us if my paranoia is right and Thomson were to close. But I love the school and its staff so much I don't want to leave. Plus for now, Seaton feeds Cardozo Middle, which I don't want.

I'll just go ahead and be a booster (sorry) and say that if you're looking for a solid school with an International Baccalaurette curriculum and a solid middle school feeder...Thomson is metro accessible! Also if you really are on the boundary study committee...parents love the school. Don't close it!

As for Franklin Park, don't get me started. There were originally plans for a playground but those got scrapped by businesses who wanted a feel like New York's Bryant Park and I guess no noisy kids. The compromise: One sad little slide. Otherwise, it's a gorgeous park for mostly non existent office workers near a Title I school lacking outdoor space. To be clear, the Thomson kids actually love their little indoor playgrounds, but I know they turn other parents off from the school who might otherwise consider it. The school does use the park for events. The previous poster who urged me to be an advocate is probably right, but I will probably have to start with the city on that issue, not the school.

We used to live right by Thomson and was excited about the Franklin Park makeover, but was really disappointed by what they chose to do with the play area. It’s…fine but not great— certainly not what I’d consider a real playground. This explanation makes sense and is too bad.

FWIW, Thomson had a great reputation when we lived over there, and we, like many others, ultimately moved for more space. It’s hard having two kids downtown. But given how popular Garrison is now, I’d imagine that those waiting to get in there may choose Thomson instead.

OP here. So agree on Franklin Park! We were hoping for a play area too, even before we became Thomson parents. What was the explanation for their lack of play space?

[Anonymous]

OP again. New question for you guys, who all seem very helpful and apparently live near me: Could we (the Ward 2 parent community) agitate for Shaw/Euclid MS to have an IB program?

I love Thomson's! The reason we have the option to go to Jefferson is apparently so we can continue it, but it never materialized there, or did and then went away.

At Thomson, all kids get IB prep. I'm not sure if it's the same way at the middle school level or not...I think it is, at least in some subjects?

A lot of Thomson kids end up at Banneker which also has IB, but right now the only middle school option in the city (I think) is at Deal, which would be an insane commute if we somehow lotteried in. I love the deeper thinking and rigor of IB and would love for my kid to continue it after ES.

Would be way more enthused about Shaw/Euclid Middle if it was offered there. I bet the Garrison/Seaton parents would like it too.

Sorry I realize I'm now getting off my own topic and that the new middle won't open for a long time.

Thanks again for your responses DCUM! Super helpful and reassuring!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP again. New question for you guys, who all seem very helpful and apparently live near me: Could we (the Ward 2 parent community) agitate for Shaw/Euclid MS to have an IB program?

I love Thomson's! The reason we have the option to go to Jefferson is apparently so we can continue it, but it never materialized there, or did and then went away.

At Thomson, all kids get IB prep. I'm not sure if it's the same way at the middle school level or not...I think it is, at least in some subjects?

A lot of Thomson kids end up at Banneker which also has IB, but right now the only middle school option in the city (I think) is at Deal, which would be an insane commute if we somehow lotteried in. I love the deeper thinking and rigor of IB and would love for my kid to continue it after ES.

Would be way more enthused about Shaw/Euclid Middle if it was offered there. I bet the Garrison/Seaton parents would like it too.

Sorry I realize I'm now getting off my own topic and that the new middle won't open for a long time.

Thanks again for your responses DCUM! Super helpful and reassuring!

Eliot Hine middle school and Eastern High school both have IB/IB middle years. That is interesting. Your elementary school has IB early years, so far I don't think any of Eastern's feeder schools have that. I am the PP who is on the boundary committee, and this is one of the things we are talking about, how to balance program options across the city. I think it makes sense to have a middle school and high school to have IB programs in multiple parts of the city, so parents don't have to travel far if they choose that option.

[Anonymous]

Boundary study committee member: I really appreciate your willingness to be here and chat with us. But does the programming really matter? IB, AP, whatever, nobody actually cares about that! People want on and above-grade-level classes. That's what they want. Not pretend, fake "advanced" classes that are actually just on grade level. Not "grade level" classes where most of the kids can't perform at grade level. That is what people are chasing when they commute long distances. And until you do something about that, nothing's going to change.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Boundary study committee member: I really appreciate your willingness to be here and chat with us. But does the programming really matter? IB, AP, whatever, nobody actually cares about that! People want on and above-grade-level classes. That's what they want. Not pretend, fake "advanced" classes that are actually just on grade level. Not "grade level" classes where most of the kids can't perform at grade level. That is what people are chasing when they commute long distances. And until you do something about that, nothing's going to change.

So much this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Boundary study committee member: I really appreciate your willingness to be here and chat with us. But does the programming really matter? IB, AP, whatever, nobody actually cares about that! People want on and above-grade-level classes. That's what they want. Not pretend, fake "advanced" classes that are actually just on grade level. Not "grade level" classes where most of the kids can't perform at grade level. That is what people are chasing when they commute long distances. And until you do something about that, nothing's going to change.

I appreciate this perspective. I am also on the committee. Better access to programming across the city has come up quite a lot but more perspectives are needed. There are opportunities for community members to weigh in with town halls already scheduled for September. https://dme.dc.gov/node/1660961

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boundary study committee member: I really appreciate your willingness to be here and chat with us. But does the programming really matter? IB, AP, whatever, nobody actually cares about that! People want on and above-grade-level classes. That's what they want. Not pretend, fake "advanced" classes that are actually just on grade level. Not "grade level" classes where most of the kids can't perform at grade level. That is what people are chasing when they commute long distances. And until you do something about that, nothing's going to change.

I appreciate this perspective. I am also on the committee. Better access to programming across the city has come up quite a lot but more perspectives are needed. There are opportunities for community members to weigh in with town halls already scheduled for September. https://dme.dc.gov/node/1660961

It's unclear to me what you mean by "programming". Is access to genuine, actually above-grade-level content considered a kind of "programming"? Or is "programming" a matter of French vs Spanish, drama vs. band, etc?

I don't bother with the town halls because I don't feel that you guys actually listen. We all know what's going on here-- DCPS isn't willing to be honest with parents about the academic level of its classes. Until that changes, nothing else changes. Parents have zero confidence that their child's academic needs will be met, even though DCPS labels certain classes "advanced". And as long as so many middle schools have literally ZERO students passing a PARCC math test, nobody's going to believe that your schools are good at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. New question for you guys, who all seem very helpful and apparently live near me: Could we (the Ward 2 parent community) agitate for Shaw/Euclid MS to have an IB program?

I love Thomson's! The reason we have the option to go to Jefferson is apparently so we can continue it, but it never materialized there, or did and then went away.

At Thomson, all kids get IB prep. I'm not sure if it's the same way at the middle school level or not...I think it is, at least in some subjects?

A lot of Thomson kids end up at Banneker which also has IB, but right now the only middle school option in the city (I think) is at Deal, which would be an insane commute if we somehow lotteried in. I love the deeper thinking and rigor of IB and would love for my kid to continue it after ES.

Would be way more enthused about Shaw/Euclid Middle if it was offered there. I bet the Garrison/Seaton parents would like it too.

Sorry I realize I'm now getting off my own topic and that the new middle won't open for a long time.

Thanks again for your responses DCUM! Super helpful and reassuring!

Eliot Hine middle school and Eastern High school both have IB/IB middle years. That is interesting. Your elementary school has IB early years, so far I don't think any of Eastern's feeder schools have that. I am the PP who is on the boundary committee, and this is one of the things we are talking about, how to balance program options across the city. I think it makes sense to have a middle school and high school to have IB programs in multiple parts of the city, so parents don't have to travel far if they choose that option.

OP here. I didn't know Eliot-Hine had IB! That's good to hear, though it is a bit far for Thomson families, even for us in the Walker-Jones district. (We live very close to W-J, wish it was a better school). I'm not sure how hard it E-S to lottery into, seems to be getting more popular. Would you ever consider a preference for kids coming from IB elementaries to go to middles with IB?

I personally think the IB for all approach works at Thomson, that's how it's designed at the elementary level. By high school, I understand every kid may not be a fit for it. I confess I don't know much how it works at middle schools, whether it's for everyone, some kids, or a hybrid. But either way, I'd love to see it at Shaw/Euclid if that's where Thomson is redistricted to. In fact, I'd love to see it at SWW@FS, which we are already districted for. Pretty sure they use pre-AP which I don't think is as strong, even though regular AP is great.

Again, thanks for engaging with us! Would love your help in ensuring Thomson thrives despite lower enrollment during this period of uncertainty for the downtown area. Thanks again for letting me know it's unlikely to close! Please come back to this thread and update if that somehow changes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP again. New question for you guys, who all seem very helpful and apparently live near me: Could we (the Ward 2 parent community) agitate for Shaw/Euclid MS to have an IB program?

I love Thomson's! The reason we have the option to go to Jefferson is apparently so we can continue it, but it never materialized there, or did and then went away.

At Thomson, all kids get IB prep. I'm not sure if it's the same way at the middle school level or not...I think it is, at least in some subjects?

A lot of Thomson kids end up at Banneker which also has IB, but right now the only middle school option in the city (I think) is at Deal, which would be an insane commute if we somehow lotteried in. I love the deeper thinking and rigor of IB and would love for my kid to continue it after ES.

Would be way more enthused about Shaw/Euclid Middle if it was offered there. I bet the Garrison/Seaton parents would like it too.

Sorry I realize I'm now getting off my own topic and that the new middle won't open for a long time.

Thanks again for your responses DCUM! Super helpful and reassuring!

Eliot Hine middle school and Eastern High school both have IB/IB middle years. That is interesting. Your elementary school has IB early years, so far I don't think any of Eastern's feeder schools have that. I am the PP who is on the boundary committee, and this is one of the things we are talking about, how to balance program options across the city. I think it makes sense to have a middle school and high school to have IB programs in multiple parts of the city, so parents don't have to travel far if they choose that option.

OP here. I didn't know Eliot-Hine had IB! That's good to hear, though it is a bit far for Thomson families, even for us in the Walker-Jones district. (We live very close to W-J, wish it was a better school). I'm not sure how hard it E-S to lottery into, seems to be getting more popular. Would you ever consider a preference for kids coming from IB elementaries to go to middles with IB?

I personally think the IB for all approach works at Thomson, that's how it's designed at the elementary level. By high school, I understand every kid may not be a fit for it. I confess I don't know much how it works at middle schools, whether it's for everyone, some kids, or a hybrid. But either way, I'd love to see it at Shaw/Euclid if that's where Thomson is redistricted to. In fact, I'd love to see it at SWW@FS, which we are already districted for. Pretty sure they use pre-AP which I don't think is as strong, even though regular AP is great.

Again, thanks for engaging with us! Would love your help in ensuring Thomson thrives despite lower enrollment during this period of uncertainty for the downtown area. Thanks again for letting me know it's unlikely to close! Please come back to this thread and update if that somehow changes.

Thanks other Boundary Committee member for posting links to the townhalls, I logged back on to do just that. None of us know what the outcome of the process will be, and in the end we submit our recommendations to the Mayor so it is not our final call. I will say, as somebody who has been to a million various community, school, ward, and city meetings over the years, I do relate to the feeling that some meetings are more an exercise they have to do, and they don't actually listen to input. However, the folks from DME and the various consultants working on this do seem engaged and responsive to feedback and ideas, both from the committee members, as well as from the townhalls, and from folks who filled out their surveys. They are also trying to attend more community events to hear from people directly - other groups have written letters etc. One advantage to more folks logging onto the town halls is so the participation isn't skewed towards one topic/school/part of the city.
On the topic of advanced classes, I do know that math is the district wide focus this year, and more info will be on this link soon https://dcpsstrong.com/strategic-plan/ . Either way - griping about the problem on here is not going to change anything, engaging with people trying to listen may make a difference, so I do encourage folks to log onto those sessions, or find another way to engage with their Ward Education group, council member, etc.