Family of 5, appx $300K HHI - would you do anything different?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:2 working parents, family of 3. I feel like we are hemorrhaging cash and I just wondered if this is the way it is or if we should be doing something different with our money. Thanks for any thoughts and sorry for the vagueness in some areas.

These are what I think of as our major expenditures:
-Groceries / Food are an expense; as are gas / electric / water / trash
-3 kids - they all do various extracurricular activities that cost money & paying for summer camps costs money
-we do put away college savings for kids (not sure exact amount)
-We do save for retirement (not sure exact amount)
-we have 2 car payments (one is $380/mo. and I would guess the other is similar but not sure)
-our regular mortgage is $2800/mo. on a 30 year mortgage but we are actually paying an additional $1600 a month to pay it off in 15 years (which is 5 years from now). I did ask my husband if we should stop that extra payment and he said he would rather cut back on other things and pay off the house (though I suppose this is still open for discussion).
-we are still paying $270/month for my loans
-we are paying $200/month for life insurance (I think)
-i do pay $130 every other week for house cleaning

We have done very minimal work on our house in the past 10 years and did recently have some large things that needed to be done for appx $15K.

Things I have cut back on:
*We cut cable and for some reason that bothers me - but I feel like I can't justify adding it back in
*Used to go on dates with my husband doing activities or trying new restaurants but I feel like I can't justify that expense all that often now
*Used to go to shows / concerts but feel like I can't justify that expense so often
*As mentioned, groceries / food are an expense but starting in 2023 I have really tried to cut out eating out / take out for just out family of 5 and to really only eat out socially
*Historically travel has been a vice of mine, but I am trying to cut back on that.

What if anything would you do differently? Thanks!

Give me two seconds to be a language pedant. Eliminate all those unnecessary "do's" and "did's." I get the tone you're trying to convey, though.

OK, on to real, and hopefully helpful commentary. We need to know your ages and how much you have saved/accumulated/invested for retirement. The fact that you don't seem to know this is not a good sign. For all we know, you guys are setting aside $4k per month, including employer matching contributions, and already have $2M accumulated at 45. If so, everything else is fine.

On the other hand, if you're 45, have $50k saved, and your retirement allocations constitute $400 per month combined, then we need to make some adjustments.

Everything else is secondary.

[Anonymous]

Hi OP, I think it’s awesome that you’re sitting down and figuring this stuff out. I think you’ll get lots of good advice on here.

After reading the thread about “If you consider yourself UMC” and the monthly spend figures people listed, I realized that a lot of people spend around $12-16k/month to fund their UMC lifestyles even though their incomes are all over the place. It made me realize that you gotta do you. Other people may also spend $15K/year on kids’ classes, but they may have $500k+ incomes. My guess is that you are spending too high of a percentage of your incomes now at the expense of growing your savings. The best thing to do is sit down with your husband and talk about your priorities - retirement, college funding and current lifestyle - and decide together on a budget that works for your family. Best of luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here are kids activity expenses which I guess you can tell me is crazy and you all don’t spend this much for kids activities.

Kid 1: $275/mo. swim, plus appx. $200 each fall and spring for rec sport. (May not continue swimming next year for interest reasons)
Kid 2: $275/mo. swim, plus appx. $1000 each fall & spring for travel sport (but seriously considering switching back to rec only next season for not being worth it for talent reasons)
Kid 3: $300/mo. dance; $160 mo. gymnastics

There is also an $50/mo. instrument rental for a kid.

So this is $16,320/year for kids' activities, *not* including camps. That is a lot. If you've got plenty of money then have fun, but if you're feeling the pinch like you say, then this is an easy place to cut back. If you take Kid 1 out of swim, Kid 2 out of travel, and Kid 3 picks a sport, that's a decent chunk of change that could be directed to 529s.

Once you get all of your numbers lined up, I would pause the mortgage pre-payment and use that $1600/month to pay off one or both cars and possibly your student loan. Then DH can go back to prepaying if he must (you shouldn't be doing this, but people who like to prepay their mortgages don't listen to reason) and you will have freed up ~$1k/month to use for other purposes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are kids activity expenses which I guess you can tell me is crazy and you all don’t spend this much for kids activities.

Kid 1: $275/mo. swim, plus appx. $200 each fall and spring for rec sport. (May not continue swimming next year for interest reasons)
Kid 2: $275/mo. swim, plus appx. $1000 each fall & spring for travel sport (but seriously considering switching back to rec only next season for not being worth it for talent reasons)
Kid 3: $300/mo. dance; $160 mo. gymnastics

There is also an $50/mo. instrument rental for a kid.

So this is $16,320/year for kids' activities, *not* including camps. That is a lot. If you've got plenty of money then have fun, but if you're feeling the pinch like you say, then this is an easy place to cut back. If you take Kid 1 out of swim, Kid 2 out of travel, and Kid 3 picks a sport, that's a decent chunk of change that could be directed to 529s.

Once you get all of your numbers lined up, I would pause the mortgage pre-payment and use that $1600/month to pay off one or both cars and possibly your student loan. Then DH can go back to prepaying if he must (you shouldn't be doing this, but people who like to prepay their mortgages don't listen to reason) and you will have freed up ~$1k/month to use for other purposes.

It's irresponsible and indicates an overly simplified way of thinking to make blanket statements either for or against something like mortgage prepayment.

We paid our mortgage off well in advance when rates were above 5%. We also invested heavily in stocks. Popular advice was to also invest some portion of retirement or other investment savings into bonds, or bond funds, for "balance." A lot of advisors and regular people will simultaneously preach that mortgage prepayment is dumb, but holding some bonds for balance is a wise move.

I figured that it did not make a lot of sense to buy an index fund of bonds that were paying less than the interest rate of our mortgage. Prepaying our mortgage years ago is the hedge that, then and now, makes us comfortable with a 100% stock portfolio.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:2 working parents, family of 3. I feel like we are hemorrhaging cash and I just wondered if this is the way it is or if we should be doing something different with our money. Thanks for any thoughts and sorry for the vagueness in some areas.

These are what I think of as our major expenditures:
-Groceries / Food are an expense; as are gas / electric / water / trash
-3 kids - they all do various extracurricular activities that cost money & paying for summer camps costs money
-we do put away college savings for kids (not sure exact amount)
-We do save for retirement (not sure exact amount)
-we have 2 car payments (one is $380/mo. and I would guess the other is similar but not sure)
-our regular mortgage is $2800/mo. on a 30 year mortgage but we are actually paying an additional $1600 a month to pay it off in 15 years (which is 5 years from now). I did ask my husband if we should stop that extra payment and he said he would rather cut back on other things and pay off the house (though I suppose this is still open for discussion).
-we are still paying $270/month for my loans
-we are paying $200/month for life insurance (I think)
-i do pay $130 every other week for house cleaning

We have done very minimal work on our house in the past 10 years and did recently have some large things that needed to be done for appx $15K.

Things I have cut back on:
*We cut cable and for some reason that bothers me - but I feel like I can't justify adding it back in
*Used to go on dates with my husband doing activities or trying new restaurants but I feel like I can't justify that expense all that often now
*Used to go to shows / concerts but feel like I can't justify that expense so often
*As mentioned, groceries / food are an expense but starting in 2023 I have really tried to cut out eating out / take out for just out family of 5 and to really only eat out socially
*Historically travel has been a vice of mine, but I am trying to cut back on that.

What if anything would you do differently? Thanks!

I'm surprised at how little you know on many of these expenses(not sure the amount) - you should get better numbers and re-post.

Depending on the interest rate, it might make sense to reduce or eliminate the extra $1600 mortgage payment if the budget is tight.

[Anonymous]

-our regular mortgage is $2800/mo. on a 30 year mortgage but we are actually paying an additional $1600 a month to pay it off in 15 years (which is 5 years from now). I did ask my husband if we should stop that extra payment and he said he would rather cut back on other things and pay off the house (though I suppose this is still open for discussion).


You got a mortgage 10 years ago and have paid off most of it? Stop paying 1600 extra each month.

[Anonymous]

You absolutely shouldn't be adding more to your mortgage! You'll never have another mortgage with interest rates so low. You should be maxing your retirement instead.

[Anonymous]

I would not have done two car payments at once.

Since you are paying in extra each month, make sure to recast 1-2 times. It cost $250 and since we were paying in extra, no more was required. Then, we kept our payment the same and put the extra money we saved into principal. I'd maybe cut back to $800 to fund the house repairs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are kids activity expenses which I guess you can tell me is crazy and you all don’t spend this much for kids activities.

Kid 1: $275/mo. swim, plus appx. $200 each fall and spring for rec sport. (May not continue swimming next year for interest reasons)
Kid 2: $275/mo. swim, plus appx. $1000 each fall & spring for travel sport (but seriously considering switching back to rec only next season for not being worth it for talent reasons)
Kid 3: $300/mo. dance; $160 mo. gymnastics

There is also an $50/mo. instrument rental for a kid.

So this is $16,320/year for kids' activities, *not* including camps. That is a lot. If you've got plenty of money then have fun, but if you're feeling the pinch like you say, then this is an easy place to cut back. If you take Kid 1 out of swim, Kid 2 out of travel, and Kid 3 picks a sport, that's a decent chunk of change that could be directed to 529s.

Once you get all of your numbers lined up, I would pause the mortgage pre-payment and use that $1600/month to pay off one or both cars and possibly your student loan. Then DH can go back to prepaying if he must (you shouldn't be doing this, but people who like to prepay their mortgages don't listen to reason) and you will have freed up ~$1k/month to use for other purposes.

It's irresponsible and indicates an overly simplified way of thinking to make blanket statements either for or against something like mortgage prepayment.

We paid our mortgage off well in advance when rates were above 5%. We also invested heavily in stocks. Popular advice was to also invest some portion of retirement or other investment savings into bonds, or bond funds, for "balance." A lot of advisors and regular people will simultaneously preach that mortgage prepayment is dumb, but holding some bonds for balance is a wise move.

I figured that it did not make a lot of sense to buy an index fund of bonds that were paying less than the interest rate of our mortgage. Prepaying our mortgage years ago is the hedge that, then and now, makes us comfortable with a 100% stock portfolio.

No one is quibbling about OP's bond position. They have two car loans and a student loan - all things that should be paid off before a mortgage. But if you thought I needed an example of people who prepay their mortgage not listening to reason, then thanks for the assist I guess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are kids activity expenses which I guess you can tell me is crazy and you all don’t spend this much for kids activities.

Kid 1: $275/mo. swim, plus appx. $200 each fall and spring for rec sport. (May not continue swimming next year for interest reasons)
Kid 2: $275/mo. swim, plus appx. $1000 each fall & spring for travel sport (but seriously considering switching back to rec only next season for not being worth it for talent reasons)
Kid 3: $300/mo. dance; $160 mo. gymnastics

There is also an $50/mo. instrument rental for a kid.

So this is $16,320/year for kids' activities, *not* including camps. That is a lot. If you've got plenty of money then have fun, but if you're feeling the pinch like you say, then this is an easy place to cut back. If you take Kid 1 out of swim, Kid 2 out of travel, and Kid 3 picks a sport, that's a decent chunk of change that could be directed to 529s.

Once you get all of your numbers lined up, I would pause the mortgage pre-payment and use that $1600/month to pay off one or both cars and possibly your student loan. Then DH can go back to prepaying if he must (you shouldn't be doing this, but people who like to prepay their mortgages don't listen to reason) and you will have freed up ~$1k/month to use for other purposes.

It's irresponsible and indicates an overly simplified way of thinking to make blanket statements either for or against something like mortgage prepayment.

We paid our mortgage off well in advance when rates were above 5%. We also invested heavily in stocks. Popular advice was to also invest some portion of retirement or other investment savings into bonds, or bond funds, for "balance." A lot of advisors and regular people will simultaneously preach that mortgage prepayment is dumb, but holding some bonds for balance is a wise move.

I figured that it did not make a lot of sense to buy an index fund of bonds that were paying less than the interest rate of our mortgage. Prepaying our mortgage years ago is the hedge that, then and now, makes us comfortable with a 100% stock portfolio.

No one is quibbling about OP's bond position. They have two car loans and a student loan - all things that should be paid off before a mortgage. But if you thought I needed an example of people who prepay their mortgage not listening to reason, then thanks for the assist I guess.

Nice try, but no.

your comment was "but people who like to prepay their mortgages don't listen to reason".

That was not specific to OP's situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would not have done two car payments at once.

Since you are paying in extra each month, make sure to recast 1-2 times. It cost $250 and since we were paying in extra, no more was required. Then, we kept our payment the same and put the extra money we saved into principal. I'd maybe cut back to $800 to fund the house repairs.

True - Yeah - I guess I should have considered the 2 car payment situation 3 years ago. We had not had 2 car payments before that (ever).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are kids activity expenses which I guess you can tell me is crazy and you all don’t spend this much for kids activities.

Kid 1: $275/mo. swim, plus appx. $200 each fall and spring for rec sport. (May not continue swimming next year for interest reasons)
Kid 2: $275/mo. swim, plus appx. $1000 each fall & spring for travel sport (but seriously considering switching back to rec only next season for not being worth it for talent reasons)
Kid 3: $300/mo. dance; $160 mo. gymnastics

There is also an $50/mo. instrument rental for a kid.

So this is $16,320/year for kids' activities, *not* including camps. That is a lot. If you've got plenty of money then have fun, but if you're feeling the pinch like you say, then this is an easy place to cut back. If you take Kid 1 out of swim, Kid 2 out of travel, and Kid 3 picks a sport, that's a decent chunk of change that could be directed to 529s.

Once you get all of your numbers lined up, I would pause the mortgage pre-payment and use that $1600/month to pay off one or both cars and possibly your student loan. Then DH can go back to prepaying if he must (you shouldn't be doing this, but people who like to prepay their mortgages don't listen to reason) and you will have freed up ~$1k/month to use for other purposes.

It's irresponsible and indicates an overly simplified way of thinking to make blanket statements either for or against something like mortgage prepayment.

We paid our mortgage off well in advance when rates were above 5%. We also invested heavily in stocks. Popular advice was to also invest some portion of retirement or other investment savings into bonds, or bond funds, for "balance." A lot of advisors and regular people will simultaneously preach that mortgage prepayment is dumb, but holding some bonds for balance is a wise move.

I figured that it did not make a lot of sense to buy an index fund of bonds that were paying less than the interest rate of our mortgage. Prepaying our mortgage years ago is the hedge that, then and now, makes us comfortable with a 100% stock portfolio.

No one is quibbling about OP's bond position. They have two car loans and a student loan - all things that should be paid off before a mortgage. But if you thought I needed an example of people who prepay their mortgage not listening to reason, then thanks for the assist I guess.

Nice try, but no.

your comment was "but people who like to prepay their mortgages don't listen to reason".

That was not specific to OP's situation.

Actually, my comment was "you should not be doing this, but [line you truncated]". I was talking to OP about her and her husband's position. I also find you to be unreasonable and silly, but I didn't know you yet when I wrote that comment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are kids activity expenses which I guess you can tell me is crazy and you all don’t spend this much for kids activities.

Kid 1: $275/mo. swim, plus appx. $200 each fall and spring for rec sport. (May not continue swimming next year for interest reasons)
Kid 2: $275/mo. swim, plus appx. $1000 each fall & spring for travel sport (but seriously considering switching back to rec only next season for not being worth it for talent reasons)
Kid 3: $300/mo. dance; $160 mo. gymnastics

There is also an $50/mo. instrument rental for a kid.

So this is $16,320/year for kids' activities, *not* including camps. That is a lot. If you've got plenty of money then have fun, but if you're feeling the pinch like you say, then this is an easy place to cut back. If you take Kid 1 out of swim, Kid 2 out of travel, and Kid 3 picks a sport, that's a decent chunk of change that could be directed to 529s.

Once you get all of your numbers lined up, I would pause the mortgage pre-payment and use that $1600/month to pay off one or both cars and possibly your student loan. Then DH can go back to prepaying if he must (you shouldn't be doing this, but people who like to prepay their mortgages don't listen to reason) and you will have freed up ~$1k/month to use for other purposes.

It's irresponsible and indicates an overly simplified way of thinking to make blanket statements either for or against something like mortgage prepayment.

We paid our mortgage off well in advance when rates were above 5%. We also invested heavily in stocks. Popular advice was to also invest some portion of retirement or other investment savings into bonds, or bond funds, for "balance." A lot of advisors and regular people will simultaneously preach that mortgage prepayment is dumb, but holding some bonds for balance is a wise move.

I figured that it did not make a lot of sense to buy an index fund of bonds that were paying less than the interest rate of our mortgage. Prepaying our mortgage years ago is the hedge that, then and now, makes us comfortable with a 100% stock portfolio.

No one is quibbling about OP's bond position. They have two car loans and a student loan - all things that should be paid off before a mortgage. But if you thought I needed an example of people who prepay their mortgage not listening to reason, then thanks for the assist I guess.

Nice try, but no.

your comment was "but people who like to prepay their mortgages don't listen to reason".

That was not specific to OP's situation.

Actually, my comment was "you should not be doing this, but [line you truncated]". I was talking to OP about her and her husband's position. I also find you to be unreasonable and silly, but I didn't know you yet when I wrote that comment.

So you're dumb financially, and you can't write clearly. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here are kids activity expenses which I guess you can tell me is crazy and you all don’t spend this much for kids activities.

Kid 1: $275/mo. swim, plus appx. $200 each fall and spring for rec sport. (May not continue swimming next year for interest reasons)
Kid 2: $275/mo. swim, plus appx. $1000 each fall & spring for travel sport (but seriously considering switching back to rec only next season for not being worth it for talent reasons)
Kid 3: $300/mo. dance; $160 mo. gymnastics

There is also an $50/mo. instrument rental for a kid.

So this is $16,320/year for kids' activities, *not* including camps. That is a lot. If you've got plenty of money then have fun, but if you're feeling the pinch like you say, then this is an easy place to cut back. If you take Kid 1 out of swim, Kid 2 out of travel, and Kid 3 picks a sport, that's a decent chunk of change that could be directed to 529s.

Once you get all of your numbers lined up, I would pause the mortgage pre-payment and use that $1600/month to pay off one or both cars and possibly your student loan. Then DH can go back to prepaying if he must (you shouldn't be doing this, but people who like to prepay their mortgages don't listen to reason) and you will have freed up ~$1k/month to use for other purposes.

It's irresponsible and indicates an overly simplified way of thinking to make blanket statements either for or against something like mortgage prepayment.

We paid our mortgage off well in advance when rates were above 5%. We also invested heavily in stocks. Popular advice was to also invest some portion of retirement or other investment savings into bonds, or bond funds, for "balance." A lot of advisors and regular people will simultaneously preach that mortgage prepayment is dumb, but holding some bonds for balance is a wise move.

I figured that it did not make a lot of sense to buy an index fund of bonds that were paying less than the interest rate of our mortgage. Prepaying our mortgage years ago is the hedge that, then and now, makes us comfortable with a 100% stock portfolio.

No one is quibbling about OP's bond position. They have two car loans and a student loan - all things that should be paid off before a mortgage. But if you thought I needed an example of people who prepay their mortgage not listening to reason, then thanks for the assist I guess.

Nice try, but no.

your comment was "but people who like to prepay their mortgages don't listen to reason".

That was not specific to OP's situation.

Actually, my comment was "you should not be doing this, but [line you truncated]". I was talking to OP about her and her husband's position. I also find you to be unreasonable and silly, but I didn't know you yet when I wrote that comment.

np. the truncated part is the key part in contention.

[Anonymous]

OP again - everyone is being very helpful. What is a normal amount of cash to have in your bank checking? I probably have a higher amount (but dwindling). For example would you balk at $50K. What do you all have?