Authors and people in publishing: At what point in book writing do you look for an agent/publisher?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have also worked in publishing in many years. Unless you really can't bear not to, the best thing to do is not to bother getting published. It's brutal and thankless. But if you have the drive, then the advice here is decent.

So true. PP/published novelist here.

If I had poured half as many hours and work into anything else I would be successful in my field. Instead I am a mid-list author. If I could do it over, I would write as a hobby on the side and pursue a more lucrative career instead of the other way round.

I have so much respect for writers, and this makes me sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have also worked in publishing in many years. Unless you really can't bear not to, the best thing to do is not to bother getting published. It's brutal and thankless. But if you have the drive, then the advice here is decent.

So true. PP/published novelist here.

If I had poured half as many hours and work into anything else I would be successful in my field. Instead I am a mid-list author. If I could do it over, I would write as a hobby on the side and pursue a more lucrative career instead of the other way round.

I have so much respect for writers, and this makes me sad.

don't be sad. writers like to complain, a lot, even the most successful ones

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have also worked in publishing in many years. Unless you really can't bear not to, the best thing to do is not to bother getting published. It's brutal and thankless. But if you have the drive, then the advice here is decent.

So true. PP/published novelist here.

If I had poured half as many hours and work into anything else I would be successful in my field. Instead I am a mid-list author. If I could do it over, I would write as a hobby on the side and pursue a more lucrative career instead of the other way round.

I have so much respect for writers, and this makes me sad.

don't be sad. writers like to complain, a lot, even the most successful ones

Ha! I am the writer you are referring to and . . . yes. I do like to complain about publishing. We all do. We get together for brunch and whine, and I'm not even kidding. If you are a big reader you would recognize some of our names. My friend who got a $200k advance for her FIRST book was complaining that she didn't make the NYT list.

But that's not me. My complaints are valid, natch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW it doesn't need to be perfect to get an agent. It just needs to be good, and the agent needs to see something in the book they think they can work with.

Don't get psyched out, is what I am trying to say. Get your book in as close to great shape as you think you can, then start querying. Agents will have ideas of changes you should make before they start trying to sell your book, so be ready for rewrites.

Terrible advice for fiction.

My agent gets thousands of queries a week. She is looking for reasons to reject. That is typical.

No book is ever perfect and you can overwork a book, and at some point you do have to send it out, but it's a mistake to send it out when it has not been edited or is not in the best shape you can make it. If you get rejected, you won't be able to query that agents with that book again.

Waste of everyone's time.

I am the PP. I write fiction, am agented, and I think people can end up holding themselves back by demanding perfection of themselves. Yeah, put your best foot forward. Have the best book you can have. But also, nothing is going to be perfect.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have also worked in publishing in many years. Unless you really can't bear not to, the best thing to do is not to bother getting published. It's brutal and thankless. But if you have the drive, then the advice here is decent.

So true. PP/published novelist here.

If I had poured half as many hours and work into anything else I would be successful in my field. Instead I am a mid-list author. If I could do it over, I would write as a hobby on the side and pursue a more lucrative career instead of the other way round.

I have so much respect for writers, and this makes me sad.

don't be sad. writers like to complain, a lot, even the most successful ones

Ha! I am the writer you are referring to and . . . yes. I do like to complain about publishing. We all do. We get together for brunch and whine, and I'm not even kidding. If you are a big reader you would recognize some of our names. My friend who got a $200k advance for her FIRST book was complaining that she didn't make the NYT list.

But that's not me. My complaints are valid, natch.

I am also published but I don't do this. Also $200k is small fry these days for a first book, I had a friend get double that 20 years ago. But then he was a man, so that might be why, unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have also worked in publishing in many years. Unless you really can't bear not to, the best thing to do is not to bother getting published. It's brutal and thankless. But if you have the drive, then the advice here is decent.

So true. PP/published novelist here.

If I had poured half as many hours and work into anything else I would be successful in my field. Instead I am a mid-list author. If I could do it over, I would write as a hobby on the side and pursue a more lucrative career instead of the other way round.

I have so much respect for writers, and this makes me sad.

don't be sad. writers like to complain, a lot, even the most successful ones

Ha! I am the writer you are referring to and . . . yes. I do like to complain about publishing. We all do. We get together for brunch and whine, and I'm not even kidding. If you are a big reader you would recognize some of our names. My friend who got a $200k advance for her FIRST book was complaining that she didn't make the NYT list.

But that's not me. My complaints are valid, natch.

I am also published but I don't do this. Also $200k is small fry these days for a first book, I had a friend get double that 20 years ago. But then he was a man, so that might be why, unfortunately.

BS.

Anyone who thinks $200k is "small fry" does not hang out with published authors.

I debuted several years ago and am in a FB group for debuts that year and have discussed advances with many authors. You are full of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For non-fiction, how much does your social media following matter?

It always seems like book deals are handed out left and right to influencers (often for not very good books), but I've heard people with really good book proposals struggle because they don't have tens of thousands of Instagram followers.

Curious how much truth there is to this?

It matters a pretty decent amount. I did well enough with self publishing that I was able to get an agent and a book deal after. My self published work has been selling well for years now and I made quite a bit of money. Even with that, publishers were still not impressed because they want that large social media following and I’m unwilling to be that kind of public persona. So basically, you can get a book deal in non fiction without a social media following but it’s an uphill battle.

This is what concerns me. I hate social media and doing that public persona thing - but would otherwise be interested in nonfiction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have also worked in publishing in many years. Unless you really can't bear not to, the best thing to do is not to bother getting published. It's brutal and thankless. But if you have the drive, then the advice here is decent.

So true. PP/published novelist here.

If I had poured half as many hours and work into anything else I would be successful in my field. Instead I am a mid-list author. If I could do it over, I would write as a hobby on the side and pursue a more lucrative career instead of the other way round.

I have so much respect for writers, and this makes me sad.

don't be sad. writers like to complain, a lot, even the most successful ones

Ha! I am the writer you are referring to and . . . yes. I do like to complain about publishing. We all do. We get together for brunch and whine, and I'm not even kidding. If you are a big reader you would recognize some of our names. My friend who got a $200k advance for her FIRST book was complaining that she didn't make the NYT list.

But that's not me. My complaints are valid, natch.

I am also published but I don't do this. Also $200k is small fry these days for a first book, I had a friend get double that 20 years ago. But then he was a man, so that might be why, unfortunately.

BS.

Anyone who thinks $200k is "small fry" does not hang out with published authors.

I debuted several years ago and am in a FB group for debuts that year and have discussed advances with many authors. You are full of it.

I'm sorry to disappoint you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have also worked in publishing in many years. Unless you really can't bear not to, the best thing to do is not to bother getting published. It's brutal and thankless. But if you have the drive, then the advice here is decent.

So true. PP/published novelist here.

If I had poured half as many hours and work into anything else I would be successful in my field. Instead I am a mid-list author. If I could do it over, I would write as a hobby on the side and pursue a more lucrative career instead of the other way round.

I have so much respect for writers, and this makes me sad.

don't be sad. writers like to complain, a lot, even the most successful ones

Ha! I am the writer you are referring to and . . . yes. I do like to complain about publishing. We all do. We get together for brunch and whine, and I'm not even kidding. If you are a big reader you would recognize some of our names. My friend who got a $200k advance for her FIRST book was complaining that she didn't make the NYT list.

But that's not me. My complaints are valid, natch.

I am also published but I don't do this. Also $200k is small fry these days for a first book, I had a friend get double that 20 years ago. But then he was a man, so that might be why, unfortunately.

BS.

Anyone who thinks $200k is "small fry" does not hang out with published authors.

I debuted several years ago and am in a FB group for debuts that year and have discussed advances with many authors. You are full of it.

I'm sorry to disappoint you.

I'm not disappointed.

Your statement just doesn't pass the smell test.

And I hate that someone who obviously knows nothing about the industry is spewing BS on an anonymous board, and giving writers false hope that they might score huge advances for their debut novels.

https://www.macgregorandluedeke.com/blog/ask-agent-average-first-book-pay/
https://maryadkinswriter.com/blog/how-much-do-authors-make

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have also worked in publishing in many years. Unless you really can't bear not to, the best thing to do is not to bother getting published. It's brutal and thankless. But if you have the drive, then the advice here is decent.

So true. PP/published novelist here.

If I had poured half as many hours and work into anything else I would be successful in my field. Instead I am a mid-list author. If I could do it over, I would write as a hobby on the side and pursue a more lucrative career instead of the other way round.

I have so much respect for writers, and this makes me sad.

don't be sad. writers like to complain, a lot, even the most successful ones

Ha! I am the writer you are referring to and . . . yes. I do like to complain about publishing. We all do. We get together for brunch and whine, and I'm not even kidding. If you are a big reader you would recognize some of our names. My friend who got a $200k advance for her FIRST book was complaining that she didn't make the NYT list.

But that's not me. My complaints are valid, natch.

I am also published but I don't do this. Also $200k is small fry these days for a first book, I had a friend get double that 20 years ago. But then he was a man, so that might be why, unfortunately.

BS.

Anyone who thinks $200k is "small fry" does not hang out with published authors.

I debuted several years ago and am in a FB group for debuts that year and have discussed advances with many authors. You are full of it.

I'm sorry to disappoint you.

I'm not disappointed.

Your statement just doesn't pass the smell test.

And I hate that someone who obviously knows nothing about the industry is spewing BS on an anonymous board, and giving writers false hope that they might score huge advances for their debut novels.

https://www.macgregorandluedeke.com/blog/ask-agent-average-first-book-pay/
https://maryadkinswriter.com/blog/how-much-do-authors-make

I was an agent for over 10 years. In London.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have also worked in publishing in many years. Unless you really can't bear not to, the best thing to do is not to bother getting published. It's brutal and thankless. But if you have the drive, then the advice here is decent.

So true. PP/published novelist here.

If I had poured half as many hours and work into anything else I would be successful in my field. Instead I am a mid-list author. If I could do it over, I would write as a hobby on the side and pursue a more lucrative career instead of the other way round.

I have so much respect for writers, and this makes me sad.

don't be sad. writers like to complain, a lot, even the most successful ones

Ha! I am the writer you are referring to and . . . yes. I do like to complain about publishing. We all do. We get together for brunch and whine, and I'm not even kidding. If you are a big reader you would recognize some of our names. My friend who got a $200k advance for her FIRST book was complaining that she didn't make the NYT list.

But that's not me. My complaints are valid, natch.

I am also published but I don't do this. Also $200k is small fry these days for a first book, I had a friend get double that 20 years ago. But then he was a man, so that might be why, unfortunately.

BS.

Anyone who thinks $200k is "small fry" does not hang out with published authors.

I debuted several years ago and am in a FB group for debuts that year and have discussed advances with many authors. You are full of it.

I'm sorry to disappoint you.

I'm not disappointed.

Your statement just doesn't pass the smell test.

And I hate that someone who obviously knows nothing about the industry is spewing BS on an anonymous board, and giving writers false hope that they might score huge advances for their debut novels.

https://www.macgregorandluedeke.com/blog/ask-agent-average-first-book-pay/
https://maryadkinswriter.com/blog/how-much-do-authors-make

I was an agent for over 10 years. In London.

And when was that? The 90s?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have also worked in publishing in many years. Unless you really can't bear not to, the best thing to do is not to bother getting published. It's brutal and thankless. But if you have the drive, then the advice here is decent.

So true. PP/published novelist here.

If I had poured half as many hours and work into anything else I would be successful in my field. Instead I am a mid-list author. If I could do it over, I would write as a hobby on the side and pursue a more lucrative career instead of the other way round.

I have so much respect for writers, and this makes me sad.

don't be sad. writers like to complain, a lot, even the most successful ones

Ha! I am the writer you are referring to and . . . yes. I do like to complain about publishing. We all do. We get together for brunch and whine, and I'm not even kidding. If you are a big reader you would recognize some of our names. My friend who got a $200k advance for her FIRST book was complaining that she didn't make the NYT list.

But that's not me. My complaints are valid, natch.

I am also published but I don't do this. Also $200k is small fry these days for a first book, I had a friend get double that 20 years ago. But then he was a man, so that might be why, unfortunately.

BS.

Anyone who thinks $200k is "small fry" does not hang out with published authors.

I debuted several years ago and am in a FB group for debuts that year and have discussed advances with many authors. You are full of it.

I'm sorry to disappoint you.

I'm not disappointed.

Your statement just doesn't pass the smell test.

And I hate that someone who obviously knows nothing about the industry is spewing BS on an anonymous board, and giving writers false hope that they might score huge advances for their debut novels.

https://www.macgregorandluedeke.com/blog/ask-agent-average-first-book-pay/
https://maryadkinswriter.com/blog/how-much-do-authors-make

I was an agent for over 10 years. In London.

Yeah, you're lying. No agent in the publishing industry thinks $200k advances for debut authors are small.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have also worked in publishing in many years. Unless you really can't bear not to, the best thing to do is not to bother getting published. It's brutal and thankless. But if you have the drive, then the advice here is decent.

So true. PP/published novelist here.

If I had poured half as many hours and work into anything else I would be successful in my field. Instead I am a mid-list author. If I could do it over, I would write as a hobby on the side and pursue a more lucrative career instead of the other way round.

I have so much respect for writers, and this makes me sad.

don't be sad. writers like to complain, a lot, even the most successful ones

Ha! I am the writer you are referring to and . . . yes. I do like to complain about publishing. We all do. We get together for brunch and whine, and I'm not even kidding. If you are a big reader you would recognize some of our names. My friend who got a $200k advance for her FIRST book was complaining that she didn't make the NYT list.

But that's not me. My complaints are valid, natch.

I am also published but I don't do this. Also $200k is small fry these days for a first book, I had a friend get double that 20 years ago. But then he was a man, so that might be why, unfortunately.

BS.

Anyone who thinks $200k is "small fry" does not hang out with published authors.

I debuted several years ago and am in a FB group for debuts that year and have discussed advances with many authors. You are full of it.

I'm sorry to disappoint you.

I'm not disappointed.

Your statement just doesn't pass the smell test.

And I hate that someone who obviously knows nothing about the industry is spewing BS on an anonymous board, and giving writers false hope that they might score huge advances for their debut novels.

https://www.macgregorandluedeke.com/blog/ask-agent-average-first-book-pay/
https://maryadkinswriter.com/blog/how-much-do-authors-make

I was an agent for over 10 years. In London.

Yeah, you're lying. No agent in the publishing industry thinks $200k advances for debut authors are small.

You are so aggressive on this thread that if I knew you personally I would be concerned. Thankfully I don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have also worked in publishing in many years. Unless you really can't bear not to, the best thing to do is not to bother getting published. It's brutal and thankless. But if you have the drive, then the advice here is decent.

So true. PP/published novelist here.

If I had poured half as many hours and work into anything else I would be successful in my field. Instead I am a mid-list author. If I could do it over, I would write as a hobby on the side and pursue a more lucrative career instead of the other way round.

I have so much respect for writers, and this makes me sad.

don't be sad. writers like to complain, a lot, even the most successful ones

Ha! I am the writer you are referring to and . . . yes. I do like to complain about publishing. We all do. We get together for brunch and whine, and I'm not even kidding. If you are a big reader you would recognize some of our names. My friend who got a $200k advance for her FIRST book was complaining that she didn't make the NYT list.

But that's not me. My complaints are valid, natch.

I am also published but I don't do this. Also $200k is small fry these days for a first book, I had a friend get double that 20 years ago. But then he was a man, so that might be why, unfortunately.

BS.

Anyone who thinks $200k is "small fry" does not hang out with published authors.

I debuted several years ago and am in a FB group for debuts that year and have discussed advances with many authors. You are full of it.

I'm sorry to disappoint you.

I'm not disappointed.

Your statement just doesn't pass the smell test.

And I hate that someone who obviously knows nothing about the industry is spewing BS on an anonymous board, and giving writers false hope that they might score huge advances for their debut novels.

https://www.macgregorandluedeke.com/blog/ask-agent-average-first-book-pay/
https://maryadkinswriter.com/blog/how-much-do-authors-make

I was an agent for over 10 years. In London.

Yeah, you're lying. No agent in the publishing industry thinks $200k advances for debut authors are small.

You are so aggressive on this thread that if I knew you personally I would be concerned. Thankfully I don’t.

Actually if you knew me IRL you'd appreciate that I'm a straight shooter who doesn't BS people to make myself look important.

Or maybe you wouldn't appreciate that . . .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For non-fiction, how much does your social media following matter?

It always seems like book deals are handed out left and right to influencers (often for not very good books), but I've heard people with really good book proposals struggle because they don't have tens of thousands of Instagram followers.

Curious how much truth there is to this?

It matters a pretty decent amount. I did well enough with self publishing that I was able to get an agent and a book deal after. My self published work has been selling well for years now and I made quite a bit of money. Even with that, publishers were still not impressed because they want that large social media following and I’m unwilling to be that kind of public persona. So basically, you can get a book deal in non fiction without a social media following but it’s an uphill battle.

This is what concerns me. I hate social media and doing that public persona thing - but would otherwise be interested in nonfiction.

Do you have specific credentials or are you an expert in your topic of choice/field? If so, you still may have a chance. An alternative to a large social media presence is starting a mailing list about your topic and building a following that way.