Stokes middle school rejected

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think there are multiple sections of algebra that are tracked, like one for the kids who are actually ready to take algebra? Do you think the school is putting kids in Grade 8 math and then having them sit for the algebra PARCC? You're going to have a better sense of whether either of these are plausible.

I do not know. You'd have to ask each school what they do.

OK, so: in the absence of something that would be truly non-standard behavior for DCPS, if your kid is taking algebra in a class with 28 or so kids at that school, only about four of those kids are going to pass the test, another 5 will get 3s, and the rest are wholly unprepared to take algebra.

Which brings us back to: are they teaching it at a level that's inappropriate for most of the class, or at a level that's inappropriate for the small number of kids who are ready to take algebra? If you send your kids there, are you thinking about this or kind of not really because you're not looking at the data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Send Bancroft and oyster to MacFarland and there will be a bigger cohort on grade level.

No, they’ll just do what the Marie Reed, Powell, and Bruce Monroe do. Lottery, private, move. You don’t solve the collective action problem by rezoning when there’s as many alternatives available as there are in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Send Bancroft and oyster to MacFarland and there will be a bigger cohort on grade level.

No, they’ll just do what the Marie Reed, Powell, and Bruce Monroe do. Lottery, private, move. You don’t solve the collective action problem by rezoning when there’s as many alternatives available as there are in DC.

+1. You can "assign" people but you can't "send" anyone anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think there are multiple sections of algebra that are tracked, like one for the kids who are actually ready to take algebra? Do you think the school is putting kids in Grade 8 math and then having them sit for the algebra PARCC? You're going to have a better sense of whether either of these are plausible.

I do not know. You'd have to ask each school what they do.

OK, so: in the absence of something that would be truly non-standard behavior for DCPS, if your kid is taking algebra in a class with 28 or so kids at that school, only about four of those kids are going to pass the test, another 5 will get 3s, and the rest are wholly unprepared to take algebra.

Which brings us back to: are they teaching it at a level that's inappropriate for most of the class, or at a level that's inappropriate for the small number of kids who are ready to take algebra? If you send your kids there, are you thinking about this or kind of not really because you're not looking at the data?

NP here. You sound like a bully.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think there are multiple sections of algebra that are tracked, like one for the kids who are actually ready to take algebra? Do you think the school is putting kids in Grade 8 math and then having them sit for the algebra PARCC? You're going to have a better sense of whether either of these are plausible.

I do not know. You'd have to ask each school what they do.

OK, so: in the absence of something that would be truly non-standard behavior for DCPS, if your kid is taking algebra in a class with 28 or so kids at that school, only about four of those kids are going to pass the test, another 5 will get 3s, and the rest are wholly unprepared to take algebra.

Which brings us back to: are they teaching it at a level that's inappropriate for most of the class, or at a level that's inappropriate for the small number of kids who are ready to take algebra? If you send your kids there, are you thinking about this or kind of not really because you're not looking at the data?

NP here. You sound like a bully.

I'm interested in what these parents are thinking. Like, when someone says their kid is on track to take algebra, what does that mean to them at a school where basically all the kids approaching grade level take algebra? Are they not aware of that? Are they aware of it and fine with it? Is the idea, look, there are some trade-offs, and it's worth it to avoid rich kids?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think there are multiple sections of algebra that are tracked, like one for the kids who are actually ready to take algebra? Do you think the school is putting kids in Grade 8 math and then having them sit for the algebra PARCC? You're going to have a better sense of whether either of these are plausible.

I do not know. You'd have to ask each school what they do.

OK, so: in the absence of something that would be truly non-standard behavior for DCPS, if your kid is taking algebra in a class with 28 or so kids at that school, only about four of those kids are going to pass the test, another 5 will get 3s, and the rest are wholly unprepared to take algebra.

Which brings us back to: are they teaching it at a level that's inappropriate for most of the class, or at a level that's inappropriate for the small number of kids who are ready to take algebra? If you send your kids there, are you thinking about this or kind of not really because you're not looking at the data?

I would think that a teacher is capable of differentiation within a class of 8th graders. It seems like you are being kind of rigid in your thinking about this. It's very normal to have in-class differentiation. I don't know why someone would take a PARCC test they have no hope of passing but I'm sure they have their reasons, and I don't think it affects my kid's experience what test other kids take.

I probably wouldn't send my own kid to a school without an algebra class, but I wouldn't care if some of the kids don't pass the test as long as some did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think there are multiple sections of algebra that are tracked, like one for the kids who are actually ready to take algebra? Do you think the school is putting kids in Grade 8 math and then having them sit for the algebra PARCC? You're going to have a better sense of whether either of these are plausible.

I do not know. You'd have to ask each school what they do.

OK, so: in the absence of something that would be truly non-standard behavior for DCPS, if your kid is taking algebra in a class with 28 or so kids at that school, only about four of those kids are going to pass the test, another 5 will get 3s, and the rest are wholly unprepared to take algebra.

Which brings us back to: are they teaching it at a level that's inappropriate for most of the class, or at a level that's inappropriate for the small number of kids who are ready to take algebra? If you send your kids there, are you thinking about this or kind of not really because you're not looking at the data?

I would think that a teacher is capable of differentiation within a class of 8th graders. It seems like you are being kind of rigid in your thinking about this. It's very normal to have in-class differentiation. I don't know why someone would take a PARCC test they have no hope of passing but I'm sure they have their reasons, and I don't think it affects my kid's experience what test other kids take.

I probably wouldn't send my own kid to a school without an algebra class, but I wouldn't care if some of the kids don't pass the test as long as some did.

I appreciate your take. There's a lot of variation in terms of how schools are deciding who takes algebra. But perhaps differentiation is allowing the kid in the algebra class where most kids are not prepared to take algebra and many of them are below grade level to have a similar experience as the kid in the algebra class at the school where three-quarters of the kids go on to pass it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think there are multiple sections of algebra that are tracked, like one for the kids who are actually ready to take algebra? Do you think the school is putting kids in Grade 8 math and then having them sit for the algebra PARCC? You're going to have a better sense of whether either of these are plausible.

I do not know. You'd have to ask each school what they do.

OK, so: in the absence of something that would be truly non-standard behavior for DCPS, if your kid is taking algebra in a class with 28 or so kids at that school, only about four of those kids are going to pass the test, another 5 will get 3s, and the rest are wholly unprepared to take algebra.

Which brings us back to: are they teaching it at a level that's inappropriate for most of the class, or at a level that's inappropriate for the small number of kids who are ready to take algebra? If you send your kids there, are you thinking about this or kind of not really because you're not looking at the data?

I would think that a teacher is capable of differentiation within a class of 8th graders. It seems like you are being kind of rigid in your thinking about this. It's very normal to have in-class differentiation. I don't know why someone would take a PARCC test they have no hope of passing but I'm sure they have their reasons, and I don't think it affects my kid's experience what test other kids take.

I probably wouldn't send my own kid to a school without an algebra class, but I wouldn't care if some of the kids don't pass the test as long as some did.

How old is your kid? When you think about teacher differentiation for Algebra in a class of 8th graders, what do you have in mind? Some kids move slower than others? Some kids learn all the algebra and others only learn part? Some kids in the class aren't keeping up so they fail every test? How do think that would work in a class of 13/14 year olds, all of whom are earning grades that may determine their eligibility for a selective high school?

My kid attends a school that is trying "algebra for all" and I'm worried about whether my kid (on grade level) is actually going to be instructed at a level that will ensure that they've learned algebra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think there are multiple sections of algebra that are tracked, like one for the kids who are actually ready to take algebra? Do you think the school is putting kids in Grade 8 math and then having them sit for the algebra PARCC? You're going to have a better sense of whether either of these are plausible.

I do not know. You'd have to ask each school what they do.

OK, so: in the absence of something that would be truly non-standard behavior for DCPS, if your kid is taking algebra in a class with 28 or so kids at that school, only about four of those kids are going to pass the test, another 5 will get 3s, and the rest are wholly unprepared to take algebra.

Which brings us back to: are they teaching it at a level that's inappropriate for most of the class, or at a level that's inappropriate for the small number of kids who are ready to take algebra? If you send your kids there, are you thinking about this or kind of not really because you're not looking at the data?

I would think that a teacher is capable of differentiation within a class of 8th graders. It seems like you are being kind of rigid in your thinking about this. It's very normal to have in-class differentiation. I don't know why someone would take a PARCC test they have no hope of passing but I'm sure they have their reasons, and I don't think it affects my kid's experience what test other kids take.

I probably wouldn't send my own kid to a school without an algebra class, but I wouldn't care if some of the kids don't pass the test as long as some did.

How old is your kid? When you think about teacher differentiation for Algebra in a class of 8th graders, what do you have in mind? Some kids move slower than others? Some kids learn all the algebra and others only learn part? Some kids in the class aren't keeping up so they fail every test? How do think that would work in a class of 13/14 year olds, all of whom are earning grades that may determine their eligibility for a selective high school?

My kid attends a school that is trying "algebra for all" and I'm worried about whether my kid (on grade level) is actually going to be instructed at a level that will ensure that they've learned algebra.

You might be interested, either for yourself, or to bring to your school:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2021/03/18/why-common-core-failed/

"Simply having higher expectations is not enough to drive systemic improvement downstream. One of the most highly replicated findings of education research is that a good predictor of how much students will learn tomorrow is how much they know today. Studies of interventions that simply ratchet up expectations without regard for students’ prior knowledge have yielded disappointing results. The “algebra for all” policies of the 1990s and early 2000s placed many unprepared eighth graders in Algebra I courses. They not only failed to learn algebra and fell further behind their peers, but many subsequently took a series of advanced math courses that doomed their high school math careers to repeated failure."

A relevant paper: The Aftermath of Accelerating Algebra Evidence from District Policy Initiatives

"The proportion of students taking a first algebra course in middle school has doubled over the past generation and there have been calls to make eighth grade algebra universal. We use significant policy shifts in the timing of algebra in two large North Carolina districts to infer the impact of accelerated entry into algebra on student performance in math courses as students progress through high school. We find no evidence of a positive mean impact of acceleration in any specification and significant negative effects on performance in both Algebra I and the traditional followup course, Geometry. Accelerating algebra to middle school appears benign or beneficial for higher performing students but unambiguously harmful to the lowest performers. We consider whether the effects reflect the reliance on less-qualified teachers and conclude that this mechanism explains only a small fraction of the result."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Send Bancroft and oyster to MacFarland and there will be a bigger cohort on grade level.

No, they’ll just do what the Marie Reed, Powell, and Bruce Monroe do. Lottery, private, move. You don’t solve the collective action problem by rezoning when there’s as many alternatives available as there are in DC.

But we are limted in options if we want to keep spanish. Macfarland is pretty much it. I have tried to lottery for 7 years now (starting in PK3) and never got into a bilingual charter ever. Now for 5th grade most have 2 or less spots available. People need to stop assumng that lottery solves problems.
We are looking at a bilingual private in DC, tuition is 42k/year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think there are multiple sections of algebra that are tracked, like one for the kids who are actually ready to take algebra? Do you think the school is putting kids in Grade 8 math and then having them sit for the algebra PARCC? You're going to have a better sense of whether either of these are plausible.

I do not know. You'd have to ask each school what they do.

OK, so: in the absence of something that would be truly non-standard behavior for DCPS, if your kid is taking algebra in a class with 28 or so kids at that school, only about four of those kids are going to pass the test, another 5 will get 3s, and the rest are wholly unprepared to take algebra.

Which brings us back to: are they teaching it at a level that's inappropriate for most of the class, or at a level that's inappropriate for the small number of kids who are ready to take algebra? If you send your kids there, are you thinking about this or kind of not really because you're not looking at the data?

I would think that a teacher is capable of differentiation within a class of 8th graders. It seems like you are being kind of rigid in your thinking about this. It's very normal to have in-class differentiation. I don't know why someone would take a PARCC test they have no hope of passing but I'm sure they have their reasons, and I don't think it affects my kid's experience what test other kids take.

I probably wouldn't send my own kid to a school without an algebra class, but I wouldn't care if some of the kids don't pass the test as long as some did.

How old is your kid? When you think about teacher differentiation for Algebra in a class of 8th graders, what do you have in mind? Some kids move slower than others? Some kids learn all the algebra and others only learn part? Some kids in the class aren't keeping up so they fail every test? How do think that would work in a class of 13/14 year olds, all of whom are earning grades that may determine their eligibility for a selective high school?

My kid attends a school that is trying "algebra for all" and I'm worried about whether my kid (on grade level) is actually going to be instructed at a level that will ensure that they've learned algebra.

You might be interested, either for yourself, or to bring to your school:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/brown-center-chalkboard/2021/03/18/why-common-core-failed/

"Simply having higher expectations is not enough to drive systemic improvement downstream. One of the most highly replicated findings of education research is that a good predictor of how much students will learn tomorrow is how much they know today. Studies of interventions that simply ratchet up expectations without regard for students’ prior knowledge have yielded disappointing results. The “algebra for all” policies of the 1990s and early 2000s placed many unprepared eighth graders in Algebra I courses. They not only failed to learn algebra and fell further behind their peers, but many subsequently took a series of advanced math courses that doomed their high school math careers to repeated failure."

A relevant paper: The Aftermath of Accelerating Algebra Evidence from District Policy Initiatives

"The proportion of students taking a first algebra course in middle school has doubled over the past generation and there have been calls to make eighth grade algebra universal. We use significant policy shifts in the timing of algebra in two large North Carolina districts to infer the impact of accelerated entry into algebra on student performance in math courses as students progress through high school. We find no evidence of a positive mean impact of acceleration in any specification and significant negative effects on performance in both Algebra I and the traditional followup course, Geometry. Accelerating algebra to middle school appears benign or beneficial for higher performing students but unambiguously harmful to the lowest performers. We consider whether the effects reflect the reliance on less-qualified teachers and conclude that this mechanism explains only a small fraction of the result."

Thank you for this. And I always appreciate when research aligns with my gut feeling...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you think there are multiple sections of algebra that are tracked, like one for the kids who are actually ready to take algebra? Do you think the school is putting kids in Grade 8 math and then having them sit for the algebra PARCC? You're going to have a better sense of whether either of these are plausible.

I do not know. You'd have to ask each school what they do.

OK, so: in the absence of something that would be truly non-standard behavior for DCPS, if your kid is taking algebra in a class with 28 or so kids at that school, only about four of those kids are going to pass the test, another 5 will get 3s, and the rest are wholly unprepared to take algebra.

Which brings us back to: are they teaching it at a level that's inappropriate for most of the class, or at a level that's inappropriate for the small number of kids who are ready to take algebra? If you send your kids there, are you thinking about this or kind of not really because you're not looking at the data?

I would think that a teacher is capable of differentiation within a class of 8th graders. It seems like you are being kind of rigid in your thinking about this. It's very normal to have in-class differentiation. I don't know why someone would take a PARCC test they have no hope of passing but I'm sure they have their reasons, and I don't think it affects my kid's experience what test other kids take.

I probably wouldn't send my own kid to a school without an algebra class, but I wouldn't care if some of the kids don't pass the test as long as some did.

How old is your kid? When you think about teacher differentiation for Algebra in a class of 8th graders, what do you have in mind? Some kids move slower than others? Some kids learn all the algebra and others only learn part? Some kids in the class aren't keeping up so they fail every test? How do think that would work in a class of 13/14 year olds, all of whom are earning grades that may determine their eligibility for a selective high school?

My kid attends a school that is trying "algebra for all" and I'm worried about whether my kid (on grade level) is actually going to be instructed at a level that will ensure that they've learned algebra.

My kid is in 4th and is getting an appropriate level of differentiation in the classroom and through after-school AOPS group.

I think the "algebra for all" idea means that algebra is at no point foreclosed to a kid who's willing to make the effort, even if they have some catching up to do. It doesn't mean that you teach 8th grade math and call it algebra. But it does mean that if a kid finishes 7th grade math and wants to study over the summer and try algebra, they can. And if you're doing in-room differentiation, a kid who's mastered the 8th grade content should be allowed to shift to the algebra group mid-year. It's all about not cutting off their opportunities. And of course, it's not really "algebra for all" unless your math teaching is on point in all grades, so that kids have every opportunity to excel and are never held back by ineffective teaching or by scheduling problems. Just chucking them all in dumbed-down algebra in 8th, after doing a poor job serving them in 6th and 7th, is Not It.

When I think about differentiation, I guess the teacher would have two or three groups within the classroom, and the top group would be learning algebra, and the teacher rotates around teaching each group in turn, and then they work independently and in problem-solving groups when they're not with the teacher. Maybe another teacher or instructional coach pushes in, if needed. If you're concerned about this, I would encourage you to ask your teachers-- there's really no reason this can't be done. Three ability groups is three ability groups and it's not like algebra is sooooo different from 8th grade math that the same teacher can't do both in turn. Kids don't need to be spoon-fed content by a teacher for the entire class period, it's entirely appropriate that they spend some of the time in practice and discussion and in problem-solving type activities. Kids learn a lot by discussing things amongst themselves.

I guess I've always felt like living EOTR means that the schools won't be great and my kid is going to be an academic outlier. I'm ok with this for various reasons, but I think it would be foolish to live here and complain that you aren't getting the Deal/Hardy/MoCo gifted program experience. It's awful, on a public policy level, but I can afford those school districts I'm just choosing to live here. So I don't really get worked up about it-- I know that I chose this and could move if I wanted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Send Bancroft and oyster to MacFarland and there will be a bigger cohort on grade level.

No, they’ll just do what the Marie Reed, Powell, and Bruce Monroe do. Lottery, private, move. You don’t solve the collective action problem by rezoning when there’s as many alternatives available as there are in DC.

But we are limted in options if we want to keep spanish. Macfarland is pretty much it. I have tried to lottery for 7 years now (starting in PK3) and never got into a bilingual charter ever. Now for 5th grade most have 2 or less spots available. People need to stop assumng that lottery solves problems.
We are looking at a bilingual private in DC, tuition is 42k/year.

WTH? Mundo is clearing its waitlists, go there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Send Bancroft and oyster to MacFarland and there will be a bigger cohort on grade level.

No, they’ll just do what the Marie Reed, Powell, and Bruce Monroe do. Lottery, private, move. You don’t solve the collective action problem by rezoning when there’s as many alternatives available as there are in DC.

But we are limted in options if we want to keep spanish. Macfarland is pretty much it. I have tried to lottery for 7 years now (starting in PK3) and never got into a bilingual charter ever. Now for 5th grade most have 2 or less spots available. People need to stop assumng that lottery solves problems.
We are looking at a bilingual private in DC, tuition is 42k/year.

WTH? Mundo is clearing its waitlists, go there.

So did Stokes I believe. PP isn’t being genuine, to say the least. And not everyone prioritizes continuing immersion past elementary like PP. I think the fact that Bancroft families pretty much exclusively choose Deal over MacFarland/CHEC prove that point. This was a good year for Latin’s second campus and you still have a good shot at Basis. The point is that families have many options, even if not every single one is desirable for every family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Child likes to read at a high level and is on track in math for Algebra on time. So no "supplementing."

And something about DC's expensive people has always turned me off. I'd rather have this child with immigrants and the less-privileged in DC than the expensive stroller/kumon/travel team/double-ivy 50-something with 12-year-olds helicopter parent families. Probably comes from my own background.

SAME

AMEN