Individual Trespassing at RMHS with a Weapon - January 24

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another question I have is why RM always deals with RPD instead of MCPD, which has more resources and more expansive policing powers. ROD does property crimes in Rockville retail areas, but if this is related to drug sales or gang activity, it should be routed to MCPD.

Maybe the Rockville PD also deals with gang/drug activity? I’m sure the MCPD and the RPD regularly work together, in any case.

I’m sure this incident, like the last one, was relayed to gangs/drugs. Clearly the trespasser was looking for someone in particular.

Or it could've been a social media dispute where one was mocking the other....or it could have been over a girl.

Teenagers fight over a lot of things. Some serious and some really stupid.

Also possible that this kid was there for a completely innocent purpose, but happened to have a gun on him because he regularly carries. The email said that he cooperated when stopped -- if he was there for something really nefarious, its somewhat more likely he would have run and figured he could outrun the cops. (Like the two kids from the other week did.)
Ideally, I would like more information from the school about what is causing these issues --- gang activity, drug sales, fights over interpersonal disputes like you stole my girl or you insulted my sister, bullying, etc.

This. Hopefully MCPS and the police are working on the answers to these questions. I don't trust MCPS, but I do have faith in our police officers - both City of Rockville and MCPD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid at RM. Also didn't hear about this until the email out, and she stays after school for an extracurricular activity.

I would like to know how this individual got INTO the school? AGAIN?? How are these people so easily gaining access to our schools?

People open doors for people. This is just basic human behavior. If your strategy depends on people not opening doors for people, your strategy will fail.

Fair enough. So, are we just resigned to the fact that anybody (adult or child) has access to our kids' schools? I guess that's the case, but our elementary school seems to do a great job of keeping people out who are not supposed to be there. One entrance and nobody can get in who isn't authorized. Also, we need to provide ID to be at the school. Is there anyway to do something similar at our high schools?

I am 100% certain your ES has more than 1 door. It would be an extreme fire hazard not to. We also know from prior tragedies that anyone can get passed the kind lady in the office that asks you to sign in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to start being more open to weapon detection technologies in schools. I'd rather see this than those electric busses they spent a bunch of money on but could barely mobilize.

I think it will make kids even later to class (which is already a struggle given how congested the hallways are and how large th property is), and I'm not at all optimistic that they can find adequately trained staff to operate metal detectors effectively. Even the TSA has a shockingly high fail rate in locating guns in baggage -- and they are trained a lot more thoroughly, and have better equipment, than MCPS is going to get. I've talked to LEO that operate metal detectors and they say it is really not that easy and requires a trained eye -- it's not like in the movies where you see the outline of a gun against a stack of clothing.

See this article, which highlights how metal detectors are not necessary as easy as they seem:

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED595716.pdf

I favor bringing back SROs, increasing security especially at doors and bathrooms, and requiring visible display of picture ID cards --- but not metal detectors or closing the campus.

Agree with all of this.

Even just implementing measures like this will make students aware that adults are aware of the problem and are watching the situation. Could act as a deterrent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to start being more open to weapon detection technologies in schools. I'd rather see this than those electric busses they spent a bunch of money on but could barely mobilize.

I think it will make kids even later to class (which is already a struggle given how congested the hallways are and how large th property is), and I'm not at all optimistic that they can find adequately trained staff to operate metal detectors effectively. Even the TSA has a shockingly high fail rate in locating guns in baggage -- and they are trained a lot more thoroughly, and have better equipment, than MCPS is going to get. I've talked to LEO that operate metal detectors and they say it is really not that easy and requires a trained eye -- it's not like in the movies where you see the outline of a gun against a stack of clothing.

See this article, which highlights how metal detectors are not necessary as easy as they seem:

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED595716.pdf

I favor bringing back SROs, increasing security especially at doors and bathrooms, and requiring visible display of picture ID cards --- but not metal detectors or closing the campus.

Agree with all of this.

Even just implementing measures like this will make students aware that adults are aware of the problem and are watching the situation. Could act as a deterrent.

I also think having SROs in school acts as a deterrent. I realize some people don't like it because some kids "feel" uncomfortable with SROs in schools, but I guarantee you that your kid will more than feel just uncomfortable if they get shot, beat up, knifed. And given that a lot of the victims of violence in schools tend to be URM, I would think SROs for them would be even more welcomed.

Even so, kids' safety is more important than how some kids feel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's kids leaning into "gun culture" and thinking it's cool and wanting to show off their weapons. This is incredibly dangerous, since we can't tell the show-offs from the murderers and showing-off can kill too. We need a total gun ban for civilians. Kids will never get it unless adults show the way.

As for school entry, athletic/back doors are left open all the time, and when they're not, kids hold the door open for others, because it's hard to block that courteous reflex.

I have never owned a gun, and don't plan to, but your logic is completely flawed.

Pot is illegal for kids in MD, yet we have kids smoking pot at pretty much all of our high schools, at school, in the hallways, in the bathrooms, on the bus.
Alcohol consumption is illegal for anyone under the age of 21, yet we had two students passed out drunk at BCC this week.
Fentanyl and other drugs are illegal, yet we have teens dying of overdoses in MCPS.
Fireworks are illegal in Montgomery County, yet we have people/teens setting fireworks off constantly, even across the street from Blair.

A 'total gun ban' won't solve anything and isn't even the main issue here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to start being more open to weapon detection technologies in schools. I'd rather see this than those electric busses they spent a bunch of money on but could barely mobilize.

I think it will make kids even later to class (which is already a struggle given how congested the hallways are and how large th property is), and I'm not at all optimistic that they can find adequately trained staff to operate metal detectors effectively. Even the TSA has a shockingly high fail rate in locating guns in baggage -- and they are trained a lot more thoroughly, and have better equipment, than MCPS is going to get. I've talked to LEO that operate metal detectors and they say it is really not that easy and requires a trained eye -- it's not like in the movies where you see the outline of a gun against a stack of clothing.

See this article, which highlights how metal detectors are not necessary as easy as they seem:

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED595716.pdf

I favor bringing back SROs, increasing security especially at doors and bathrooms, and requiring visible display of picture ID cards --- but not metal detectors or closing the campus.

Agree with all of this.

Even just implementing measures like this will make students aware that adults are aware of the problem and are watching the situation. Could act as a deterrent.

I also think having SROs in school acts as a deterrent. I realize some people don't like it because some kids "feel" uncomfortable with SROs in schools, but I guarantee you that your kid will more than feel just uncomfortable if they get shot, beat up, knifed. And given that a lot of the victims of violence in schools tend to be URM, I would think SROs for them would be even more welcomed.

Even so, kids' safety is more important than how some kids feel.

Oh, I agree! But, try telling that to our 'progressive' political leaders and our BOE. They disagree and forcefully pushed SROs out of schools, despite the fact that principals and parents wanted the program to stay intact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to start being more open to weapon detection technologies in schools. I'd rather see this than those electric busses they spent a bunch of money on but could barely mobilize.

I think it will make kids even later to class (which is already a struggle given how congested the hallways are and how large th property is), and I'm not at all optimistic that they can find adequately trained staff to operate metal detectors effectively. Even the TSA has a shockingly high fail rate in locating guns in baggage -- and they are trained a lot more thoroughly, and have better equipment, than MCPS is going to get. I've talked to LEO that operate metal detectors and they say it is really not that easy and requires a trained eye -- it's not like in the movies where you see the outline of a gun against a stack of clothing.

See this article, which highlights how metal detectors are not necessary as easy as they seem:

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED595716.pdf

I favor bringing back SROs, increasing security especially at doors and bathrooms, and requiring visible display of picture ID cards --- but not metal detectors or closing the campus.

Agree with all of this.

Even just implementing measures like this will make students aware that adults are aware of the problem and are watching the situation. Could act as a deterrent.

I also think having SROs in school acts as a deterrent. I realize some people don't like it because some kids "feel" uncomfortable with SROs in schools, but I guarantee you that your kid will more than feel just uncomfortable if they get shot, beat up, knifed. And given that a lot of the victims of violence in schools tend to be URM, I would think SROs for them would be even more welcomed.

Even so, kids' safety is more important than how some kids feel.

Oh, I agree! But, try telling that to our 'progressive' political leaders and our BOE. They disagree and forcefully pushed SROs out of schools, despite the fact that principals and parents wanted the program to stay intact.

Some parents supported keeping the SROs. Other parents supported the effort to eliminate the SRO positions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's kids leaning into "gun culture" and thinking it's cool and wanting to show off their weapons. This is incredibly dangerous, since we can't tell the show-offs from the murderers and showing-off can kill too. We need a total gun ban for civilians. Kids will never get it unless adults show the way.

As for school entry, athletic/back doors are left open all the time, and when they're not, kids hold the door open for others, because it's hard to block that courteous reflex.

I have never owned a gun, and don't plan to, but your logic is completely flawed.

Pot is illegal for kids in MD, yet we have kids smoking pot at pretty much all of our high schools, at school, in the hallways, in the bathrooms, on the bus.
Alcohol consumption is illegal for anyone under the age of 21, yet we had two students passed out drunk at BCC this week.
Fentanyl and other drugs are illegal, yet we have teens dying of overdoses in MCPS.
Fireworks are illegal in Montgomery County, yet we have people/teens setting fireworks off constantly, even across the street from Blair.

A 'total gun ban' won't solve anything and isn't even the main issue here.

DP.. I think the difference is that while alcohol is illegal for minors, it's not illegal in general. Same for guns, but actually in some states, minors can own guns.

If you got rid of guns, made them completely illegal, it would be *harder* for people to get guns. What we have right now is easy access to guns. This is part of the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to start being more open to weapon detection technologies in schools. I'd rather see this than those electric busses they spent a bunch of money on but could barely mobilize.

I think it will make kids even later to class (which is already a struggle given how congested the hallways are and how large th property is), and I'm not at all optimistic that they can find adequately trained staff to operate metal detectors effectively. Even the TSA has a shockingly high fail rate in locating guns in baggage -- and they are trained a lot more thoroughly, and have better equipment, than MCPS is going to get. I've talked to LEO that operate metal detectors and they say it is really not that easy and requires a trained eye -- it's not like in the movies where you see the outline of a gun against a stack of clothing.

See this article, which highlights how metal detectors are not necessary as easy as they seem:

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED595716.pdf

I favor bringing back SROs, increasing security especially at doors and bathrooms, and requiring visible display of picture ID cards --- but not metal detectors or closing the campus.

Agree with all of this.

Even just implementing measures like this will make students aware that adults are aware of the problem and are watching the situation. Could act as a deterrent.

I also think having SROs in school acts as a deterrent. I realize some people don't like it because some kids "feel" uncomfortable with SROs in schools, but I guarantee you that your kid will more than feel just uncomfortable if they get shot, beat up, knifed. And given that a lot of the victims of violence in schools tend to be URM, I would think SROs for them would be even more welcomed.

Even so, kids' safety is more important than how some kids feel.

Oh, I agree! But, try telling that to our 'progressive' political leaders and our BOE. They disagree and forcefully pushed SROs out of schools, despite the fact that principals and parents wanted the program to stay intact.

Some parents supported keeping the SROs. Other parents supported the effort to eliminate the SRO positions.

Yes, but neither MCPS nor the BOE had made a decision one way or another, before Elrich (with backing from Jawando) unilaterally decided to end the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's kids leaning into "gun culture" and thinking it's cool and wanting to show off their weapons. This is incredibly dangerous, since we can't tell the show-offs from the murderers and showing-off can kill too. We need a total gun ban for civilians. Kids will never get it unless adults show the way.

As for school entry, athletic/back doors are left open all the time, and when they're not, kids hold the door open for others, because it's hard to block that courteous reflex.

I have never owned a gun, and don't plan to, but your logic is completely flawed.

Pot is illegal for kids in MD, yet we have kids smoking pot at pretty much all of our high schools, at school, in the hallways, in the bathrooms, on the bus.
Alcohol consumption is illegal for anyone under the age of 21, yet we had two students passed out drunk at BCC this week.
Fentanyl and other drugs are illegal, yet we have teens dying of overdoses in MCPS.
Fireworks are illegal in Montgomery County, yet we have people/teens setting fireworks off constantly, even across the street from Blair.

A 'total gun ban' won't solve anything and isn't even the main issue here.

DP.. I think the difference is that while alcohol is illegal for minors, it's not illegal in general. Same for guns, but actually in some states, minors can own guns.

If you got rid of guns, made them completely illegal, it would be *harder* for people to get guns. What we have right now is easy access to guns. This is part of the problem.

Fentanyl is illegal. Yet, we have kids accessing it Fentanyl AT school and overdosing AT school.

Focusing on banning guns is the wrong approach here, and will certainly anger/activate responsible gun owners, rightfully so.

Just look over at DC. How’s that gun ban working out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another question I have is why RM always deals with RPD instead of MCPD, which has more resources and more expansive policing powers. ROD does property crimes in Rockville retail areas, but if this is related to drug sales or gang activity, it should be routed to MCPD.

Because Rockville is a city, and has Rockville PD.

Rockville PD handles up to major crimes. if it is a major crime it is turned over to MCPD. Also RCPD was on the scene and apprehended this individual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to start being more open to weapon detection technologies in schools. I'd rather see this than those electric busses they spent a bunch of money on but could barely mobilize.

I think it will make kids even later to class (which is already a struggle given how congested the hallways are and how large th property is), and I'm not at all optimistic that they can find adequately trained staff to operate metal detectors effectively. Even the TSA has a shockingly high fail rate in locating guns in baggage -- and they are trained a lot more thoroughly, and have better equipment, than MCPS is going to get. I've talked to LEO that operate metal detectors and they say it is really not that easy and requires a trained eye -- it's not like in the movies where you see the outline of a gun against a stack of clothing.

See this article, which highlights how metal detectors are not necessary as easy as they seem:

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED595716.pdf

I favor bringing back SROs, increasing security especially at doors and bathrooms, and requiring visible display of picture ID cards --- but not metal detectors or closing the campus.

Agree with all of this.

Even just implementing measures like this will make students aware that adults are aware of the problem and are watching the situation. Could act as a deterrent.

I also think having SROs in school acts as a deterrent. I realize some people don't like it because some kids "feel" uncomfortable with SROs in schools, but I guarantee you that your kid will more than feel just uncomfortable if they get shot, beat up, knifed. And given that a lot of the victims of violence in schools tend to be URM, I would think SROs for them would be even more welcomed.

Even so, kids' safety is more important than how some kids feel.

Oh, I agree! But, try telling that to our 'progressive' political leaders and our BOE. They disagree and forcefully pushed SROs out of schools, despite the fact that principals and parents wanted the program to stay intact.

Some parents supported keeping the SROs. Other parents supported the effort to eliminate the SRO positions.

More parents and wanted SROs than not. But the progressive county leaders decided it didn't matter what parents want.

They looked at a study when trying to determine whether to keep SROs but they ignored the positives and only focused on the negatives:

https://www.boarddocs.com/mabe/mcpsmd/Board.nsf/files/C2S2RR727C3F/$file/SRO%20Program%20210511.pdf

In a study of middle and high schools, Swartz et al. (2016) found that SROs had decreased criminal offenses by 17% at 27 middle and high schools.

Promotion of positive school climate
- Increased rates of counseling by SROs resulted in improved student and staff morale, enhanced communication between students and adults, the enforcement of clear rules and expectations, and promoted a positive school climate (Denham et al., 2016).

- School staff assessed by Denham et al. (2016) rated their SROs’ impact on school climate positively.

- In a study on how SRO presence impacted the school environment, 82% of teachers reported reductions in student fighting following the assignment of an SRO (Maskaly et al., 2011).

Improved perceptions of safety by students, parents, and school officials

- Of students surveyed by Lamont et al., 201, 73% of reported that the presence of an SRO caused them to be less concerned about bullying, thefts, violence, and intruders while on school grounds.

Parents surveyed by Myrstol (2011) reported believing that SROs reduced juvenile delinquency, improved police-community relations and school climate, enhanced quality of life in the community, helped students better understand the law, and helped the police department by exposing police personnel to a different part of the community. In addition, assigning SROs to schools gave parents the perception that school safety was a priority in
their community (Watkins & Maume, 2012).

- May et al. (2004) found that 87.5% of school administrators in a Kentucky school felt strongly that their assigned SROs effectively reduced negative student behaviors, including drug use, theft, threats, weapons possession, and fighting. Over half of the school administrators reported not finding anything unfavorable about their schools’ SRO programs.

- Watkins and Maume (2012) found that SRO presence increased feelings of reassurance among teachers that violent attacks in school could be mitigated

The pros in the memo far out weighs the cons. How can those things be ignored?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's kids leaning into "gun culture" and thinking it's cool and wanting to show off their weapons. This is incredibly dangerous, since we can't tell the show-offs from the murderers and showing-off can kill too. We need a total gun ban for civilians. Kids will never get it unless adults show the way.

As for school entry, athletic/back doors are left open all the time, and when they're not, kids hold the door open for others, because it's hard to block that courteous reflex.

I have never owned a gun, and don't plan to, but your logic is completely flawed.

Pot is illegal for kids in MD, yet we have kids smoking pot at pretty much all of our high schools, at school, in the hallways, in the bathrooms, on the bus.
Alcohol consumption is illegal for anyone under the age of 21, yet we had two students passed out drunk at BCC this week.
Fentanyl and other drugs are illegal, yet we have teens dying of overdoses in MCPS.
Fireworks are illegal in Montgomery County, yet we have people/teens setting fireworks off constantly, even across the street from Blair.

A 'total gun ban' won't solve anything and isn't even the main issue here.

DP.. I think the difference is that while alcohol is illegal for minors, it's not illegal in general. Same for guns, but actually in some states, minors can own guns.

If you got rid of guns, made them completely illegal, it would be *harder* for people to get guns. What we have right now is easy access to guns. This is part of the problem.

Fentanyl is illegal. Yet, we have kids accessing it Fentanyl AT school and overdosing AT school.

Focusing on banning guns is the wrong approach here, and will certainly anger/activate responsible gun owners, rightfully so.

Just look over at DC. How’s that gun ban working out?

yes, but when something is legal, it's much easier to access.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We need to start being more open to weapon detection technologies in schools. I'd rather see this than those electric busses they spent a bunch of money on but could barely mobilize.

I think it will make kids even later to class (which is already a struggle given how congested the hallways are and how large th property is), and I'm not at all optimistic that they can find adequately trained staff to operate metal detectors effectively. Even the TSA has a shockingly high fail rate in locating guns in baggage -- and they are trained a lot more thoroughly, and have better equipment, than MCPS is going to get. I've talked to LEO that operate metal detectors and they say it is really not that easy and requires a trained eye -- it's not like in the movies where you see the outline of a gun against a stack of clothing.

See this article, which highlights how metal detectors are not necessary as easy as they seem:

https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED595716.pdf

I favor bringing back SROs, increasing security especially at doors and bathrooms, and requiring visible display of picture ID cards --- but not metal detectors or closing the campus.

Agree with all of this.

Even just implementing measures like this will make students aware that adults are aware of the problem and are watching the situation. Could act as a deterrent.

I also think having SROs in school acts as a deterrent. I realize some people don't like it because some kids "feel" uncomfortable with SROs in schools, but I guarantee you that your kid will more than feel just uncomfortable if they get shot, beat up, knifed. And given that a lot of the victims of violence in schools tend to be URM, I would think SROs for them would be even more welcomed.

Even so, kids' safety is more important than how some kids feel.

Oh, I agree! But, try telling that to our 'progressive' political leaders and our BOE. They disagree and forcefully pushed SROs out of schools, despite the fact that principals and parents wanted the program to stay intact.

Some parents supported keeping the SROs. Other parents supported the effort to eliminate the SRO positions.

Yes, but neither MCPS nor the BOE had made a decision one way or another, before Elrich (with backing from Jawando) unilaterally decided to end the program.

This. Elrich and Jawando made the decision and should be held accountable. But, we just voted Elrich back in, so clearly voters support his unilateral decisions on matters like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another question I have is why RM always deals with RPD instead of MCPD, which has more resources and more expansive policing powers. ROD does property crimes in Rockville retail areas, but if this is related to drug sales or gang activity, it should be routed to MCPD.

Because Rockville is a city, and has Rockville PD.

Yes but MCPD still has primary jurisdiction for policing major crimes I believe. I’m not sure exactly where the work load is split (and would love to see the document if anyone has it), but in MD, the County PD (or sheriff office in counties with no county PD) is the plucking authority with general jurisdiction and any city departments are merely supplemental. It may be that they get faster response from RPD on “small” crimes like trespass — that’s why cities establish these city PDs. I just don’t know what the reasoning is, and I might like an explanation from the school and MCPD.

There is an MOU, file an MPIA request. It may even be on one of the PD's website. Or simply call and ask, it is a very easy question to answer.