which Big3 schools actually dropped APs this year as planned?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:sorry to be dense but can someone remind me why they decided to do this in the first place? Wasn't it somewhat controversial?

The claims were : students may pass up other courses to get the college credits from AP courses, and that moving away from the courses would allow them to offer a wider variety of courses that were equally rigorous and enriching.

However, I’ve yet to hear what rigorous courses are replacing the APs at all these schools. More I suspect that said course will offer depth in a teachers personal area of curiosity and expertise and less the students interest. Especially when you consider these are small schools so it’s not like the teachers are about to create a huge variety of new classes from scratch and then be the only ones that can teach them every year.

A class doesn't need to follow the strict AP to be as rigorous (or more) than an AP course. Our child got 5's on AP Lit and APUSH from their Big 3 regular 11th grade English and US History courses...and our school has NO differentiated levels for those courses (there's no honors, etc. - everyone takes the same class). There was no tutor involved and not a lot of extra work. Teachers gave a small amount of feedback in the Spring on what the exam will look like and whether there was anything the teacher hadn't covered yet. It was not a heavy lift for our student - they had been taught at the high level AP required but with a curriculum and depth the teacher/school chose for the course. There are so many skeptics on the decreasing quality. The Blair Magnet science courses aren't all labeled AP - and those kids also get 5's on the AP subject exams. In both cases, these are smart kids with great teachers....there's no need to follow the rote AP formula. They get a better course AND get the "5" test score.

Wishful thinking. Some random course that reflects the teacher’s interest and the school’s priorities isn’t going to translate into a 5 on an AP test for most kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD is at NCS. I know they have AP Calculus because my DD wanted to enroll and they wouldn’t let her. They definitely have AP language, but they wouldn’t let my daughter enroll in that either. They have AP Biology, but my daughter was in the regular biology class. Honestly, I have only recently figured out that my DD is probably screwed in the college process because her classmates are in these AP classes but my DD isn’t. I heard they were being eliminated, but the school is no longer saying that to parents. They definitely gatekeep these classes.

Why did they block her?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD is at NCS. I know they have AP Calculus because my DD wanted to enroll and they wouldn’t let her. They definitely have AP language, but they wouldn’t let my daughter enroll in that either. They have AP Biology, but my daughter was in the regular biology class. Honestly, I have only recently figured out that my DD is probably screwed in the college process because her classmates are in these AP classes but my DD isn’t. I heard they were being eliminated, but the school is no longer saying that to parents. They definitely gatekeep these classes.

Why did they block her?

Maybe her grades were not high enough. But you can still take the exams without the classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is no “rote AP formula,” PP.

The course curriculum and content has to be approved by College Board to be called AP....it has to fit a formula

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:sorry to be dense but can someone remind me why they decided to do this in the first place? Wasn't it somewhat controversial?

The claims were : students may pass up other courses to get the college credits from AP courses, and that moving away from the courses would allow them to offer a wider variety of courses that were equally rigorous and enriching.

However, I’ve yet to hear what rigorous courses are replacing the APs at all these schools. More I suspect that said course will offer depth in a teachers personal area of curiosity and expertise and less the students interest. Especially when you consider these are small schools so it’s not like the teachers are about to create a huge variety of new classes from scratch and then be the only ones that can teach them every year.

A class doesn't need to follow the strict AP to be as rigorous (or more) than an AP course. Our child got 5's on AP Lit and APUSH from their Big 3 regular 11th grade English and US History courses...and our school has NO differentiated levels for those courses (there's no honors, etc. - everyone takes the same class). There was no tutor involved and not a lot of extra work. Teachers gave a small amount of feedback in the Spring on what the exam will look like and whether there was anything the teacher hadn't covered yet. It was not a heavy lift for our student - they had been taught at the high level AP required but with a curriculum and depth the teacher/school chose for the course. There are so many skeptics on the decreasing quality. The Blair Magnet science courses aren't all labeled AP - and those kids also get 5's on the AP subject exams. In both cases, these are smart kids with great teachers....there's no need to follow the rote AP formula. They get a better course AND get the "5" test score.

Not wishful thinking, it's facts. My child is not an outlier at this school....the kids do very very well on APs without an AP label on the course.

Wishful thinking. Some random course that reflects the teacher’s interest and the school’s priorities isn’t going to translate into a 5 on an AP test for most kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:sorry to be dense but can someone remind me why they decided to do this in the first place? Wasn't it somewhat controversial?

The claims were : students may pass up other courses to get the college credits from AP courses, and that moving away from the courses would allow them to offer a wider variety of courses that were equally rigorous and enriching.

However, I’ve yet to hear what rigorous courses are replacing the APs at all these schools. More I suspect that said course will offer depth in a teachers personal area of curiosity and expertise and less the students interest. Especially when you consider these are small schools so it’s not like the teachers are about to create a huge variety of new classes from scratch and then be the only ones that can teach them every year.

A class doesn't need to follow the strict AP to be as rigorous (or more) than an AP course. Our child got 5's on AP Lit and APUSH from their Big 3 regular 11th grade English and US History courses...and our school has NO differentiated levels for those courses (there's no honors, etc. - everyone takes the same class). There was no tutor involved and not a lot of extra work. Teachers gave a small amount of feedback in the Spring on what the exam will look like and whether there was anything the teacher hadn't covered yet. It was not a heavy lift for our student - they had been taught at the high level AP required but with a curriculum and depth the teacher/school chose for the course. There are so many skeptics on the decreasing quality. The Blair Magnet science courses aren't all labeled AP - and those kids also get 5's on the AP subject exams. In both cases, these are smart kids with great teachers....there's no need to follow the rote AP formula. They get a better course AND get the "5" test score.

Wishful thinking. Some random course that reflects the teacher’s interest and the school’s priorities isn’t going to translate into a 5 on an AP test for most kids.

Not wishful thinking, it's facts. My child is not an outlier at this school....the kids do very very well on APs without an AP label on the course.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:sorry to be dense but can someone remind me why they decided to do this in the first place? Wasn't it somewhat controversial?

The claims were : students may pass up other courses to get the college credits from AP courses, and that moving away from the courses would allow them to offer a wider variety of courses that were equally rigorous and enriching.

However, I’ve yet to hear what rigorous courses are replacing the APs at all these schools. More I suspect that said course will offer depth in a teachers personal area of curiosity and expertise and less the students interest. Especially when you consider these are small schools so it’s not like the teachers are about to create a huge variety of new classes from scratch and then be the only ones that can teach them every year.

A class doesn't need to follow the strict AP to be as rigorous (or more) than an AP course. Our child got 5's on AP Lit and APUSH from their Big 3 regular 11th grade English and US History courses...and our school has NO differentiated levels for those courses (there's no honors, etc. - everyone takes the same class). There was no tutor involved and not a lot of extra work. Teachers gave a small amount of feedback in the Spring on what the exam will look like and whether there was anything the teacher hadn't covered yet. It was not a heavy lift for our student - they had been taught at the high level AP required but with a curriculum and depth the teacher/school chose for the course. There are so many skeptics on the decreasing quality. The Blair Magnet science courses aren't all labeled AP - and those kids also get 5's on the AP subject exams. In both cases, these are smart kids with great teachers....there's no need to follow the rote AP formula. They get a better course AND get the "5" test score.

Wishful thinking. Some random course that reflects the teacher’s interest and the school’s priorities isn’t going to translate into a 5 on an AP test for most kids.

Not wishful thinking, it's facts. My child is not an outlier at this school....the kids do very very well on APs without an AP label on the course.

Oh yeah? It’s “facts” that every kid gets a 5 on every AP? And how do you know that? Do you work for the College Board?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:sorry to be dense but can someone remind me why they decided to do this in the first place? Wasn't it somewhat controversial?

The claims were : students may pass up other courses to get the college credits from AP courses, and that moving away from the courses would allow them to offer a wider variety of courses that were equally rigorous and enriching.

However, I’ve yet to hear what rigorous courses are replacing the APs at all these schools. More I suspect that said course will offer depth in a teachers personal area of curiosity and expertise and less the students interest. Especially when you consider these are small schools so it’s not like the teachers are about to create a huge variety of new classes from scratch and then be the only ones that can teach them every year.

A class doesn't need to follow the strict AP to be as rigorous (or more) than an AP course. Our child got 5's on AP Lit and APUSH from their Big 3 regular 11th grade English and US History courses...and our school has NO differentiated levels for those courses (there's no honors, etc. - everyone takes the same class). There was no tutor involved and not a lot of extra work. Teachers gave a small amount of feedback in the Spring on what the exam will look like and whether there was anything the teacher hadn't covered yet. It was not a heavy lift for our student - they had been taught at the high level AP required but with a curriculum and depth the teacher/school chose for the course. There are so many skeptics on the decreasing quality. The Blair Magnet science courses aren't all labeled AP - and those kids also get 5's on the AP subject exams. In both cases, these are smart kids with great teachers....there's no need to follow the rote AP formula. They get a better course AND get the "5" test score.

Wishful thinking. Some random course that reflects the teacher’s interest and the school’s priorities isn’t going to translate into a 5 on an AP test for most kids.

Not wishful thinking, it's facts. My child is not an outlier at this school....the kids do very very well on APs without an AP label on the course.

Oh yeah? It’s “facts” that every kid gets a 5 on every AP? And how do you know that? Do you work for the College Board?

i don't but it sure seems you do. i haven't seen someone blindly defend something like you defend the AP curriculum since Rudy Giuliani.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Wishful thinking. Some random course that reflects the teacher’s interest and the school’s priorities isn’t going to translate into a 5 on an AP test for most kids.

Disagree, based on my own experience….

My private school, elsewhere in VA, never had courses which were labelled as “AP” and never mapped the course curriculum strictly to the official AP curriculum. They did permit any student to sit any AP exam on school grounds during designated test periods (usually May). Many students DID get 5s and there also were many students who got 4s. To avoid confusion, these successes included AP tests for Calculus, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, US History, and various foreign languages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:sorry to be dense but can someone remind me why they decided to do this in the first place? Wasn't it somewhat controversial?

The claims were : students may pass up other courses to get the college credits from AP courses, and that moving away from the courses would allow them to offer a wider variety of courses that were equally rigorous and enriching.

However, I’ve yet to hear what rigorous courses are replacing the APs at all these schools. More I suspect that said course will offer depth in a teachers personal area of curiosity and expertise and less the students interest. Especially when you consider these are small schools so it’s not like the teachers are about to create a huge variety of new classes from scratch and then be the only ones that can teach them every year.

A class doesn't need to follow the strict AP to be as rigorous (or more) than an AP course. Our child got 5's on AP Lit and APUSH from their Big 3 regular 11th grade English and US History courses...and our school has NO differentiated levels for those courses (there's no honors, etc. - everyone takes the same class). There was no tutor involved and not a lot of extra work. Teachers gave a small amount of feedback in the Spring on what the exam will look like and whether there was anything the teacher hadn't covered yet. It was not a heavy lift for our student - they had been taught at the high level AP required but with a curriculum and depth the teacher/school chose for the course. There are so many skeptics on the decreasing quality. The Blair Magnet science courses aren't all labeled AP - and those kids also get 5's on the AP subject exams. In both cases, these are smart kids with great teachers....there's no need to follow the rote AP formula. They get a better course AND get the "5" test score.

Wishful thinking. Some random course that reflects the teacher’s interest and the school’s priorities isn’t going to translate into a 5 on an AP test for most kids.

Not wishful thinking, it's facts. My child is not an outlier at this school....the kids do very very well on APs without an AP label on the course.

Oh yeah? It’s “facts” that every kid gets a 5 on every AP? And how do you know that? Do you work for the College Board?

i don't but it sure seems you do. i haven't seen someone blindly defend something like you defend the AP curriculum since Rudy Giuliani.

Right, you are completely clueless.

I haven’t seen such a dumb comment since Rudy opened his mouth at the Four Seasons press conference.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:sorry to be dense but can someone remind me why they decided to do this in the first place? Wasn't it somewhat controversial?

The claims were : students may pass up other courses to get the college credits from AP courses, and that moving away from the courses would allow them to offer a wider variety of courses that were equally rigorous and enriching.

However, I’ve yet to hear what rigorous courses are replacing the APs at all these schools. More I suspect that said course will offer depth in a teachers personal area of curiosity and expertise and less the students interest. Especially when you consider these are small schools so it’s not like the teachers are about to create a huge variety of new classes from scratch and then be the only ones that can teach them every year.

A class doesn't need to follow the strict AP to be as rigorous (or more) than an AP course. Our child got 5's on AP Lit and APUSH from their Big 3 regular 11th grade English and US History courses...and our school has NO differentiated levels for those courses (there's no honors, etc. - everyone takes the same class). There was no tutor involved and not a lot of extra work. Teachers gave a small amount of feedback in the Spring on what the exam will look like and whether there was anything the teacher hadn't covered yet. It was not a heavy lift for our student - they had been taught at the high level AP required but with a curriculum and depth the teacher/school chose for the course. There are so many skeptics on the decreasing quality. The Blair Magnet science courses aren't all labeled AP - and those kids also get 5's on the AP subject exams. In both cases, these are smart kids with great teachers....there's no need to follow the rote AP formula. They get a better course AND get the "5" test score.

Wishful thinking. Some random course that reflects the teacher’s interest and the school’s priorities isn’t going to translate into a 5 on an AP test for most kids.

Not wishful thinking, it's facts. My child is not an outlier at this school....the kids do very very well on APs without an AP label on the course.

Oh yeah? It’s “facts” that every kid gets a 5 on every AP? And how do you know that? Do you work for the College Board?

Wow - you are extreme. I'm saying that it is NOT a rare thing for the students at our Big 3 to get 5's just from taking the regular 11th grade English/History classes taught to everyone. No - I don't go asking around for everyone's scores but I also know that I have never heard a single parent complain about whether the courses prep students for the AP Lit or APUSH and have never heard anyone complain about lack of rigor in those two courses. And our school's parents LOVE to complain!

Clearly this doesn't apply to every kid or to every school or to every teacher in a school. But the assertation that that dropping AP will result in crazy teachers who don't teach the core subject matter and either regress or retreat to a single favorite specialty in the subject doesn't apply across the board either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:sorry to be dense but can someone remind me why they decided to do this in the first place? Wasn't it somewhat controversial?

The claims were : students may pass up other courses to get the college credits from AP courses, and that moving away from the courses would allow them to offer a wider variety of courses that were equally rigorous and enriching.

However, I’ve yet to hear what rigorous courses are replacing the APs at all these schools. More I suspect that said course will offer depth in a teachers personal area of curiosity and expertise and less the students interest. Especially when you consider these are small schools so it’s not like the teachers are about to create a huge variety of new classes from scratch and then be the only ones that can teach them every year.

A class doesn't need to follow the strict AP to be as rigorous (or more) than an AP course. Our child got 5's on AP Lit and APUSH from their Big 3 regular 11th grade English and US History courses...and our school has NO differentiated levels for those courses (there's no honors, etc. - everyone takes the same class). There was no tutor involved and not a lot of extra work. Teachers gave a small amount of feedback in the Spring on what the exam will look like and whether there was anything the teacher hadn't covered yet. It was not a heavy lift for our student - they had been taught at the high level AP required but with a curriculum and depth the teacher/school chose for the course. There are so many skeptics on the decreasing quality. The Blair Magnet science courses aren't all labeled AP - and those kids also get 5's on the AP subject exams. In both cases, these are smart kids with great teachers....there's no need to follow the rote AP formula. They get a better course AND get the "5" test score.

Wishful thinking. Some random course that reflects the teacher’s interest and the school’s priorities isn’t going to translate into a 5 on an AP test for most kids.

Not wishful thinking, it's facts. My child is not an outlier at this school....the kids do very very well on APs without an AP label on the course.

Oh yeah? It’s “facts” that every kid gets a 5 on every AP? And how do you know that? Do you work for the College Board?

i don't but it sure seems you do. i haven't seen someone blindly defend something like you defend the AP curriculum since Rudy Giuliani.

Wow, not the pp just an observer, but you certainly showed your true colors immediately attacking the pp by turning this into an ugly political battle. I would certainly not trust anything you say now. Get a grip please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:sorry to be dense but can someone remind me why they decided to do this in the first place? Wasn't it somewhat controversial?

The claims were : students may pass up other courses to get the college credits from AP courses, and that moving away from the courses would allow them to offer a wider variety of courses that were equally rigorous and enriching.

However, I’ve yet to hear what rigorous courses are replacing the APs at all these schools. More I suspect that said course will offer depth in a teachers personal area of curiosity and expertise and less the students interest. Especially when you consider these are small schools so it’s not like the teachers are about to create a huge variety of new classes from scratch and then be the only ones that can teach them every year.

A class doesn't need to follow the strict AP to be as rigorous (or more) than an AP course. Our child got 5's on AP Lit and APUSH from their Big 3 regular 11th grade English and US History courses...and our school has NO differentiated levels for those courses (there's no honors, etc. - everyone takes the same class). There was no tutor involved and not a lot of extra work. Teachers gave a small amount of feedback in the Spring on what the exam will look like and whether there was anything the teacher hadn't covered yet. It was not a heavy lift for our student - they had been taught at the high level AP required but with a curriculum and depth the teacher/school chose for the course. There are so many skeptics on the decreasing quality. The Blair Magnet science courses aren't all labeled AP - and those kids also get 5's on the AP subject exams. In both cases, these are smart kids with great teachers....there's no need to follow the rote AP formula. They get a better course AND get the "5" test score.

Wishful thinking. Some random course that reflects the teacher’s interest and the school’s priorities isn’t going to translate into a 5 on an AP test for most kids.

Not wishful thinking, it's facts. My child is not an outlier at this school....the kids do very very well on APs without an AP label on the course.

Oh yeah? It’s “facts” that every kid gets a 5 on every AP? And how do you know that? Do you work for the College Board?

Wow - you are extreme. I'm saying that it is NOT a rare thing for the students at our Big 3 to get 5's just from taking the regular 11th grade English/History classes taught to everyone. No - I don't go asking around for everyone's scores but I also know that I have never heard a single parent complain about whether the courses prep students for the AP Lit or APUSH and have never heard anyone complain about lack of rigor in those two courses. And our school's parents LOVE to complain!

Clearly this doesn't apply to every kid or to every school or to every teacher in a school. But the assertation that that dropping AP will result in crazy teachers who don't teach the core subject matter and either regress or retreat to a single favorite specialty in the subject doesn't apply across the board either.

If schools and parents don’t want the AP courses, then why take the exam?

[Anonymous]

Well STA clearly doesn’t think non-AP classes are better because they still have many offerings and their the highest level taught in those subjects.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:sorry to be dense but can someone remind me why they decided to do this in the first place? Wasn't it somewhat controversial?

The claims were : students may pass up other courses to get the college credits from AP courses, and that moving away from the courses would allow them to offer a wider variety of courses that were equally rigorous and enriching.

However, I’ve yet to hear what rigorous courses are replacing the APs at all these schools. More I suspect that said course will offer depth in a teachers personal area of curiosity and expertise and less the students interest. Especially when you consider these are small schools so it’s not like the teachers are about to create a huge variety of new classes from scratch and then be the only ones that can teach them every year.

A class doesn't need to follow the strict AP to be as rigorous (or more) than an AP course. Our child got 5's on AP Lit and APUSH from their Big 3 regular 11th grade English and US History courses...and our school has NO differentiated levels for those courses (there's no honors, etc. - everyone takes the same class). There was no tutor involved and not a lot of extra work. Teachers gave a small amount of feedback in the Spring on what the exam will look like and whether there was anything the teacher hadn't covered yet. It was not a heavy lift for our student - they had been taught at the high level AP required but with a curriculum and depth the teacher/school chose for the course. There are so many skeptics on the decreasing quality. The Blair Magnet science courses aren't all labeled AP - and those kids also get 5's on the AP subject exams. In both cases, these are smart kids with great teachers....there's no need to follow the rote AP formula. They get a better course AND get the "5" test score.

Wishful thinking. Some random course that reflects the teacher’s interest and the school’s priorities isn’t going to translate into a 5 on an AP test for most kids.

Not wishful thinking, it's facts. My child is not an outlier at this school....the kids do very very well on APs without an AP label on the course.

Oh yeah? It’s “facts” that every kid gets a 5 on every AP? And how do you know that? Do you work for the College Board?

Wow - you are extreme. I'm saying that it is NOT a rare thing for the students at our Big 3 to get 5's just from taking the regular 11th grade English/History classes taught to everyone. No - I don't go asking around for everyone's scores but I also know that I have never heard a single parent complain about whether the courses prep students for the AP Lit or APUSH and have never heard anyone complain about lack of rigor in those two courses. And our school's parents LOVE to complain!

Clearly this doesn't apply to every kid or to every school or to every teacher in a school. But the assertation that that dropping AP will result in crazy teachers who don't teach the core subject matter and either regress or retreat to a single favorite specialty in the subject doesn't apply across the board either.

If schools and parents don’t want the AP courses, then why take the exam?

The school chose to take AP off and said they could still teach with the same quality. I can't speak to whether parents asked the school to take off AP (but somehow I doubt it).

Students at these schools still take the AP exams for a variety of reasons. Some think it adds to their college application (whether that's true or not, who knows?), others are applying to schools that either accept AP scores for college credit or provide more flexibility in course selection, some are applying to colleges abroad that require AP scores to qualify...... I am sure there are other reasons.