Does anyone have a sibling they may one day be responsible for?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a case worker for mentally I’ll older people, and things are much more stable for people who own their home. People who rent or live in governement housing can be evicted, and landlords will work to evict mentally ill people who are disruptive, don’t pay the rent, frighten others, hoard, etc. You can’t take away someone’s housing for those things if they own it!

Could you buy her a tiny house so she’ll have a place to live? That would reduce substantially her risk of homelessness.

As a PP said, I institutionalization isn’t a thing anymore for the mentally ill. It is for the developmentally delayed or those with physical impairments that prevent self care (like eating and toileting). She should already be on disability - if not, work on that.

This is good advice and the pp that mentioned letting her have mother's home if she owns it - great idea. Likely she WILL need to live on her own until there are other reasons so living in mom's home would give her a stable spot. Ways you could help would be things like - paying for people to come take care of the yard once a month, having someone come clean and generally doing some house upkeep so the house doesn't fall into TOTAL disrepair as she likely won't be able to keep up with all of that and will lead to a better quality of life for her if it's taken care of and she can just focus on groceries, etc. Also, it's possible that her daughter will provide a very supportive role if she is 20+ when this happens. Though it would be VERY kind of you to help her navigate it, and potentially provide some funds if you are able so that her mom's quality of life can stay ok.

My husband and I would like to avoid her daughter having to take care of her. We have seen what a burden that can be. Given the location of their town and the economy there it would basically mean the daughter would give up her life. She is so smart and deserves every chance to go to college (we are paying for her to go to college). I just don't want her stuck in this very poor rural town with nothing to do for the rest of her mom's life. I also think she already resents her mom as she has been essentially been the adult in their relationship her entire life so far (she helps makes sure her mom eats). I don't know it just sucks.

Pp here. It really does suck op, I'm so sorry. For all of you (sister very much included). I appreciate this and is a great thing to provide your support to sister and niece so that niece isn't completely burdened by this. It is possible that daughter will still WANT to have more interaction and involvement than you anticipate. It may not be the case, but in many cases especially for a child that has been parentified like you describe, the entanglement can sometimes be a lot AND at the end of the day she will be considered the closest relative once she's over 18 (and in most states the power of attorney by default unless new forms are signed) so, you may want to prepare yourself to support her and let her be involved in some of the decisions. If you all are taking on much of this (having groceries delivered, having someone take care of the yard) it can take a burden off. And it may still be tough for your niece to leave. Mostly I just want to say keep your expectations to a minimum and try to go in with the understanding that this will likely be very complicated for your niece, despite your generous offer to pay for college so be empathic as she navigates this and tries to learn how to have boundaries with her mom.

The pp above had some good advice and I wanted to say is there a reason instead of buying a new property that when mother dies you could just pay off the mortgage of the current property? It may be a lot easier on your SIL to remain in the place she knows and is comfortable and easier on all of you than trying to move her. It's just something to consider.

Mainly just the size of the property (and it I kind of old and not in the best of shape). But it is a large house with a large yard so it seems like a lot to take care of.

ok that makes total sense! Buying her a small place somewhere else does sound way more reasonable but will still give her stability without a landlord etc.

It does not necessarily make sense for OP to buy a property for her SIL (or to have property or any assets in her name). I know you are trying to give well-intentioned advice, but I am guessing this is not a situation you have actually dealt with.

My brother is mentally ill and will need support his entire life. The best thing my parents did for him was buy him a small house. He will never be homeless. Even after they die and my other siblings and I live far away, he'll have a place to live and it won't be with us. We all need space from him and he can live alone. Although he has bipolar and cannot work, he has a place to live and gets food stamps. No matter what happens, the family agrees we will keep his house for him so he can have one stable thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a case worker for mentally I’ll older people, and things are much more stable for people who own their home. People who rent or live in governement housing can be evicted, and landlords will work to evict mentally ill people who are disruptive, don’t pay the rent, frighten others, hoard, etc. You can’t take away someone’s housing for those things if they own it!

Could you buy her a tiny house so she’ll have a place to live? That would reduce substantially her risk of homelessness.

As a PP said, I institutionalization isn’t a thing anymore for the mentally ill. It is for the developmentally delayed or those with physical impairments that prevent self care (like eating and toileting). She should already be on disability - if not, work on that.

This is good advice and the pp that mentioned letting her have mother's home if she owns it - great idea. Likely she WILL need to live on her own until there are other reasons so living in mom's home would give her a stable spot. Ways you could help would be things like - paying for people to come take care of the yard once a month, having someone come clean and generally doing some house upkeep so the house doesn't fall into TOTAL disrepair as she likely won't be able to keep up with all of that and will lead to a better quality of life for her if it's taken care of and she can just focus on groceries, etc. Also, it's possible that her daughter will provide a very supportive role if she is 20+ when this happens. Though it would be VERY kind of you to help her navigate it, and potentially provide some funds if you are able so that her mom's quality of life can stay ok.

My husband and I would like to avoid her daughter having to take care of her. We have seen what a burden that can be. Given the location of their town and the economy there it would basically mean the daughter would give up her life. She is so smart and deserves every chance to go to college (we are paying for her to go to college). I just don't want her stuck in this very poor rural town with nothing to do for the rest of her mom's life. I also think she already resents her mom as she has been essentially been the adult in their relationship her entire life so far (she helps makes sure her mom eats). I don't know it just sucks.

Pp here. It really does suck op, I'm so sorry. For all of you (sister very much included). I appreciate this and is a great thing to provide your support to sister and niece so that niece isn't completely burdened by this. It is possible that daughter will still WANT to have more interaction and involvement than you anticipate. It may not be the case, but in many cases especially for a child that has been parentified like you describe, the entanglement can sometimes be a lot AND at the end of the day she will be considered the closest relative once she's over 18 (and in most states the power of attorney by default unless new forms are signed) so, you may want to prepare yourself to support her and let her be involved in some of the decisions. If you all are taking on much of this (having groceries delivered, having someone take care of the yard) it can take a burden off. And it may still be tough for your niece to leave. Mostly I just want to say keep your expectations to a minimum and try to go in with the understanding that this will likely be very complicated for your niece, despite your generous offer to pay for college so be empathic as she navigates this and tries to learn how to have boundaries with her mom.

The pp above had some good advice and I wanted to say is there a reason instead of buying a new property that when mother dies you could just pay off the mortgage of the current property? It may be a lot easier on your SIL to remain in the place she knows and is comfortable and easier on all of you than trying to move her. It's just something to consider.

Mainly just the size of the property (and it I kind of old and not in the best of shape). But it is a large house with a large yard so it seems like a lot to take care of.

ok that makes total sense! Buying her a small place somewhere else does sound way more reasonable but will still give her stability without a landlord etc.

It does not necessarily make sense for OP to buy a property for her SIL (or to have property or any assets in her name). I know you are trying to give well-intentioned advice, but I am guessing this is not a situation you have actually dealt with.

My brother is mentally ill and will need support his entire life. The best thing my parents did for him was buy him a small house. He will never be homeless. Even after they die and my other siblings and I live far away, he'll have a place to live and it won't be with us. We all need space from him and he can live alone. Although he has bipolar and cannot work, he has a place to live and gets food stamps. No matter what happens, the family agrees we will keep his house for him so he can have one stable thing.

OP here. DO you know whose house the name is in? I worry about the house being in my name when we are so far away and will have zero control over anything. I would think we could put the house into a trust? Obviously we will need legal advice.

[Anonymous]

I also really worry that she won't continue to apply for food stamps/disability if MIL isn't there to force her. I suppose I could be made a representative payee for disability but not sure the options for food stamps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was a case worker for mentally I’ll older people, and things are much more stable for people who own their home. People who rent or live in governement housing can be evicted, and landlords will work to evict mentally ill people who are disruptive, don’t pay the rent, frighten others, hoard, etc. You can’t take away someone’s housing for those things if they own it!

Could you buy her a tiny house so she’ll have a place to live? That would reduce substantially her risk of homelessness.

As a PP said, I institutionalization isn’t a thing anymore for the mentally ill. It is for the developmentally delayed or those with physical impairments that prevent self care (like eating and toileting). She should already be on disability - if not, work on that.

This is good advice and the pp that mentioned letting her have mother's home if she owns it - great idea. Likely she WILL need to live on her own until there are other reasons so living in mom's home would give her a stable spot. Ways you could help would be things like - paying for people to come take care of the yard once a month, having someone come clean and generally doing some house upkeep so the house doesn't fall into TOTAL disrepair as she likely won't be able to keep up with all of that and will lead to a better quality of life for her if it's taken care of and she can just focus on groceries, etc. Also, it's possible that her daughter will provide a very supportive role if she is 20+ when this happens. Though it would be VERY kind of you to help her navigate it, and potentially provide some funds if you are able so that her mom's quality of life can stay ok.

My husband and I would like to avoid her daughter having to take care of her. We have seen what a burden that can be. Given the location of their town and the economy there it would basically mean the daughter would give up her life. She is so smart and deserves every chance to go to college (we are paying for her to go to college). I just don't want her stuck in this very poor rural town with nothing to do for the rest of her mom's life. I also think she already resents her mom as she has been essentially been the adult in their relationship her entire life so far (she helps makes sure her mom eats). I don't know it just sucks.

Pp here. It really does suck op, I'm so sorry. For all of you (sister very much included). I appreciate this and is a great thing to provide your support to sister and niece so that niece isn't completely burdened by this. It is possible that daughter will still WANT to have more interaction and involvement than you anticipate. It may not be the case, but in many cases especially for a child that has been parentified like you describe, the entanglement can sometimes be a lot AND at the end of the day she will be considered the closest relative once she's over 18 (and in most states the power of attorney by default unless new forms are signed) so, you may want to prepare yourself to support her and let her be involved in some of the decisions. If you all are taking on much of this (having groceries delivered, having someone take care of the yard) it can take a burden off. And it may still be tough for your niece to leave. Mostly I just want to say keep your expectations to a minimum and try to go in with the understanding that this will likely be very complicated for your niece, despite your generous offer to pay for college so be empathic as she navigates this and tries to learn how to have boundaries with her mom.

The pp above had some good advice and I wanted to say is there a reason instead of buying a new property that when mother dies you could just pay off the mortgage of the current property? It may be a lot easier on your SIL to remain in the place she knows and is comfortable and easier on all of you than trying to move her. It's just something to consider.

Mainly just the size of the property (and it I kind of old and not in the best of shape). But it is a large house with a large yard so it seems like a lot to take care of.

ok that makes total sense! Buying her a small place somewhere else does sound way more reasonable but will still give her stability without a landlord etc.

It does not necessarily make sense for OP to buy a property for her SIL (or to have property or any assets in her name). I know you are trying to give well-intentioned advice, but I am guessing this is not a situation you have actually dealt with.

I’m in a similar situation with SIL but she does not have kids. She is currently living with my MIL in a condo after abandoning several rented apartments in succession when her hoarding became too much to undo in each one. MIL cooks and cleans for her but eventually this will be too much. I worry about the situation a lot. The tricky part of the condo is that if it ever became SIL’s place where she lived alone, she would not be able to keep up with it but also wouldn’t be able to exit it the way she walked away from her rentals. DH and I know it will be our problem eventually.

Still, I think owning is the most stable if you can control costs and come to terms with having to manage her house stuff. My second priority would be supporting your MIL and niece and giving them both a life that is as separate from SIL as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I also really worry that she won't continue to apply for food stamps/disability if MIL isn't there to force her. I suppose I could be made a representative payee for disability but not sure the options for food stamps.

I'm the pp that someone just responded to saying I am well intentioned but don't know what I'm talking about. anyway I think I did assume that you would of course be seeking legal advice before any purchasing as it sounds like you have the means to do so and I should have said that there is of course lots of considerations - property under SIL name could put certain benefits at risk and property under your name I'm sure has it's own risks. I haven't dealt with the purchasing of a home for a mentally ill family member, but I have more experience in this area than the pp assumes. So to answer your food stamp question - SNAP does have rep payee options. I think your concerns are valid though. Despite what people think, the reporting requirements and checking in to keep your benefits can be quite arduous. It may actually be a tad easier now because of COVID in a weird way - prior to covid so much had to be done in person at a SNAP office (or at least was much easier). I'm not working close enough to that area now to know but I wonder if some of the shifts to more online due to covid may make it easier to help from afar but I don't know if that is true.

[Anonymous]

My aunt lives in a LMC condo complex. Out of 100 or so units, there seem to currently be 5 or 6 residents who were "dumped" by family members who bought the units for their mentally ill relatives. They create such havoc with the neighbors, the management, the HOA, everyone.

There's just no easy answer. The state of mental health care in our country is terrible. You're a good person to care, OP, and the daughter will likely have to take on more and more care as she ages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My aunt lives in a LMC condo complex. Out of 100 or so units, there seem to currently be 5 or 6 residents who were "dumped" by family members who bought the units for their mentally ill relatives. They create such havoc with the neighbors, the management, the HOA, everyone.

There's just no easy answer. The state of mental health care in our country is terrible. You're a good person to care, OP, and the daughter will likely have to take on more and more care as she ages.

OP here: It is rough. I understand why the laws were changed. I mean the way mental illness used to be handled in this country was atrocious. But now it is still horrible in different ways. I don't want SIL to have no autonomy and I think "wow it would be horrible if someone had to force me to take meds each day" but I also just want her to see a doctor regularly. Just wish she had the ability/will/desire to do so. I really worry because she seems to be getting worse and worse and I worry about the safety of MIL and my niece but she hasn't threatened them or anything. It just feels like a ball rolling down the hill headed for disaster.

[Anonymous]

This a very tough situation.

Frankly I'd focus on helping her daughter. I know this is easier said that done, but I'd help her apply to boarding schools that fully meet tuition need. (Exeter is one, but I know, that's like saying "apply to harvard, it's a good school." The Posse Foundation is focused on finding poor students full scholarships to college, but they might have suggestions for how poor kids can access free private high school education).

When your MIL dies, I would sell the house, buy your sister a trailer or similar extremely-low cost stand-alone home, and put the remaining money in a trust for her daughter. Mother can receive interest from the trust but not be able to access the principal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This a very tough situation.

Frankly I'd focus on helping her daughter. I know this is easier said that done, but I'd help her apply to boarding schools that fully meet tuition need. (Exeter is one, but I know, that's like saying "apply to harvard, it's a good school." The Posse Foundation is focused on finding poor students full scholarships to college, but they might have suggestions for how poor kids can access free private high school education).

When your MIL dies, I would sell the house, buy your sister a trailer or similar extremely-low cost stand-alone home, and put the remaining money in a trust for her daughter. Mother can receive interest from the trust but not be able to access the principal.

Oh I never thought of boarding schools. I am not sure she would be willing to do that. I will bring it up though. I think it would be a very rough transition for her. There are no private High schools or middle schools in her town. The public HS is horrible (folks comment about bad test scores here when they hit 89%, but there we are talking 15%). We offered to pay for her to attend school in the next biggest town, but neither SIL or MIL can drive her one hour each way twice a day. I would LOVE if she would just move her (niece only) but SIL won't let her (and I doubt dad would want that either). I can look into board schools in TX though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This a very tough situation.

Frankly I'd focus on helping her daughter. I know this is easier said that done, but I'd help her apply to boarding schools that fully meet tuition need. (Exeter is one, but I know, that's like saying "apply to harvard, it's a good school." The Posse Foundation is focused on finding poor students full scholarships to college, but they might have suggestions for how poor kids can access free private high school education).

When your MIL dies, I would sell the house, buy your sister a trailer or similar extremely-low cost stand-alone home, and put the remaining money in a trust for her daughter. Mother can receive interest from the trust but not be able to access the principal.

Oh I never thought of boarding schools. I am not sure she would be willing to do that. I will bring it up though. I think it would be a very rough transition for her. There are no private High schools or middle schools in her town. The public HS is horrible (folks comment about bad test scores here when they hit 89%, but there we are talking 15%). We offered to pay for her to attend school in the next biggest town, but neither SIL or MIL can drive her one hour each way twice a day. I would LOVE if she would just move her (niece only) but SIL won't let her (and I doubt dad would want that either). I can look into board schools in TX though.

Sorry about all the spelling errors, typing too fast on my phone.

[Anonymous]

OP, I agree that it’s a very tough situation and that focusing on helping your niece (right?), above all else. There’s only so much you can control with your sibling, but investing in your niece could change her life entirely, and for the better. I have a girlfriend who benefitted in this way from an aunt.

My sister has a host of health problems, mostly mental health and alcohol addiction, but now the physical consequences that come with that. I’m praying our mom, who mostly supports her, lives at least long enough for my younger niece to graduate from high school. My older niece thankfully lives with her father; younger niece has a different, deeply dysfunctional father. My own DD asked me one day whether we would support my sister after my parents die and I told her no. If we had the money to buy her a small home, we would. Any resources we have will go to my younger niece; she doesn’t deserve the life she has. Neither does my sister, but again, there’s only so much I can do.

[Anonymous]

Where the heck is the nieces dad?? No way would I let my kid live in this situation

[Anonymous]

You should speak with an attorney who specializes in special needs trusts and medicaid as close to her town as you can find. They may be aware of group or other disabled housing in her area. You can also hire that person to keep up with her paperwork. You absolutely don’t want to purchase any property in her name or give her access to any other funds as it would jeopardize her medicaid eligibility. The laws/rules on this stuff can be really complicated and it’s great MIL seems to have already gotten that in place. A good attorney will be able to help you keep it up and is probably well worth the money to not deal with it yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Where the heck is the nieces dad?? No way would I let my kid live in this situation

When she was born SIL was not nearly this bad. She was capable of being a mom at least and niece and SIL lived with MIL even then so things were more stable I guess. It has been the last few years that SIL has really started to decompensate. Niece does spend a lot of time with her dad now but the main issue is really just poverty. He only lives in a small studio, which is essentially dilapidated room in his grandma's backyard (and until recently lived there with his fiancé and teenage son). There is no real place for her to sleep and no privacy.

She is with him every weekend, but obviously it is not enough. Supposedly he is looking to buy a place and niece has said that she will move in with him if he does, but it hasn't happened yet and I have my doubts.
As for why he doesn't work harder to get custody or to move her to safer place, well we can all draw our own conclusions about that, but assumptions are probably correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You should speak with an attorney who specializes in special needs trusts and medicaid as close to her town as you can find. They may be aware of group or other disabled housing in her area. You can also hire that person to keep up with her paperwork. You absolutely don’t want to purchase any property in her name or give her access to any other funds as it would jeopardize her medicaid eligibility. The laws/rules on this stuff can be really complicated and it’s great MIL seems to have already gotten that in place. A good attorney will be able to help you keep it up and is probably well worth the money to not deal with it yourself.

Thank you, I will make sure to look into that. You are right about her losing aide if she owns anything. This county makes things so difficult. Force people to live in poverty to get government help for stuff like this and then don't provide them with enough to even survive (i think she gets around 1200 a month in disability). Hard to live on 1200 a month and certainly not enough to afford quality mental health care.